GEM: Realistic?

Hi, all - I'm investing in trying out for GEM 2022 through UCAT with particular interest in Cambridge and Warwick. But I'm 40, and my school performances were mediocre (GCSE: ABBBCCC; A-Level: BC), on account of myriad problems (eg homelessness) and family issues that I won't trouble you with. But from the age of 25, I've pulled it back: LLB Law (1st, best graduate prize), MA Criminology (distinction), PhD Mental Health Law (empirical project looking at criminal psychotherapy; spent a year on a secure ward) - University of Nottingham awarded. I'm currently a Senior Lecturer in Criminal Law, with a good deal of leadership experience, and have a number of publications in mental health law/criminal law, with an award and experience training NHS forensic multidisciplinary staff in secure settings. I want to do dual training in forensic psychiatry with medical psychotherapy. I am currently about to do my 3rd of 3 years of a Diploma in Counselling. I'm a volunteer counsellor in a bereavement charity and sexual abuse charity. I have quite a lot of other experience, but some is 10+ years old (when I almost took the plunge after my law degree in 2006): shadowed a psychiatrist at a prison for a pre-admission assessment; shadowed a cardiologist; volunteered at Age Concern for 6 months; online mentor for the Eating Disorders Association; shadowed a Coroner at court hearing and an autopsy; did a 10 week befriending course at an AIDS support service. I've also shadowed criminal barristers in court (note to forensics). Between 2019 and 2021, I worked with victim/survivors of historic child sexual abuse with the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse. I'm also a therapeutic foster carer. In the next month, I have GP and urology shadowing experiences lined up. My aim has been to immerse myself in a range of experiences rather than be blinkered. I have an A in Biology A-level that I took during the final year of my LLB. I am currently NEC'ing Chemistry and Psychology in the hope of AA in view of Cambridge. I down for taking the UCAT next month for Warwick.I think I have reasonable experience and academic credentials, but I balk at my A-levels. I fear being overlooked. And I respect the hugely talented People with comparable ambitions. Can I hope to attempt this high bar? Any thoughts would be gratefully received. Thanks

(edited 2 years ago)

Reply 1

Student5cience

Isn’t it the gamsat not the ucat you have to take ? I might be wrong

Reply 2

TheMedicOwl

Original post by Student5cience

Isn’t it the gamsat not the ucat you have to take ? I might be wrong

Warwick requires the UCAT. Cambridge has no admissions test for GEM, I believe.

I'm another aspiring psychiatrist who also has a background in mental health. My one caution would be to make sure you're comfortable with the full sweep of the medicine course and that you could envisage yourself working happily in areas other than psychiatry. Otherwise it's a lot of eggs to put in one small basket (even smaller if you've got your heart set on a dual CCT - bear in mind that not everywhere offers this). Given the shortages, it's more realistic to set out with psychiatry in mind than the ever-popular neurosurgery, especially with your experience. But you will have at least six years of very limited psychiatry content before you get to specialise, so you need to be sure that you'll be happy with that breadth.

Reply 3

VeritySleeps

Original post by LDoc

Hi, all - I'm investing in trying out for GEM 2022 through UCAT with particular interest in Cambridge and Warwick. But I'm 40, and my school performances were mediocre (GCSE: ABBBCCC; A-Level: BC), on account of myriad problems (eg homelessness) and family issues that I won't trouble you with. But from the age of 25, I've pulled it back: LLB Law (1st, best graduate prize), MA Criminology (distinction), PhD Mental Health Law (empirical project looking at criminal psychotherapy; spent a year on a secure ward) - University of Nottingham awarded. I'm currently a Senior Lecturer in Criminal Law, with a good deal of leadership experience, and have a number of publications in mental health law/criminal law, with an award and experience training NHS forensic multidisciplinary staff in secure settings. I want to do dual training in forensic psychiatry with medical psychotherapy.I am currently about to do my 3rd of 3 years of a Diploma in Counselling. I'm a volunteer counsellor in a bereavement charity and sexual abuse charity. I have quite a lot of other experience, but some is 10+ years old (when I almost took the plunge after my law degree in 2006): shadowed a psychiatrist at a prison for a pre-admission assessment; shadowed a cardiologist; volunteered at Age Concern for 6 months; online mentor for the Eating Disorders Association; shadowed a Coroner at court hearing and an autopsy; did a 10 week befriending course at an AIDS support service. I've also shadowed criminal barristers in court (note to forensics). Between 2019 and 2021, I worked with victim/survivors of historic child sexual abuse with the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse. I'm also a therapeutic foster carer. In the next month, I have GP and urology shadowing experiences lined up. My aim has been to immerse myself in a range of experiences rather than be blinkered.I have an A in Biology A-level that I took during the final year of my LLB. I am currently NEC'ing Chemistry and Psychology in the hope of AA in view of Cambridge. I down for taking the UCAT next month for Warwick.I think I have reasonable experience and academic credentials, but I baulk at my A-levels. I fear being overlooked. And I respect the hugely talented People with comparable ambitions. Can I hope to attempt this high bar? Any thoughts would be gratefully received. Thanks

It may be best to email each University you are interested in (I believe you can apply for 4) as whilst your experience is incredible, med schools need to know you will be able to keep up with the course which is a huge amount of memorisation etc. Each university would be able to tell you if they would consider you or not but as I said, without having done multiple A Levels at once, I don't know your likelihood of success.
There are a couple of other things to consider. You mentioned that you have a particular interest in 2 universities, that's fine (and great to have goals). However, are you prepared to go to other universities? Applying smartly is a huge part of success and the universities you may like, may not be the ones that would want you. Also, why have you picked them? If it is location, remember that being a doctor can end you up anywhere. There are ways to prioritise being close to home but given the complexity of the role, it's not guaranteed.
Finally, why do you want to do this degree? Is it to be a doctor? You seem to have a very well established career including being a foster carer. Do you have the time for this commitment and are you sure you want it? You have picked out may interesting things to see over short periods, if you intend to be a doctor, the job is a lot more repetitive. Do you want to be a doctor at the end of this degree? Including the long hours on your feet, unsociable hours and regular relocation? If you just want to do the degree to tick off the box, I wouldn't recommend it - it's an awful lot of work and debt (especially if you are limited on loans) for very little reward.

Reply 4

Invective

Regarding GEM Warwick, as long as you have a total of 70 hrs of clinical experience from two different placements (no one placement can account for more than 50 hours and shadowing cannot account for more than 20 hours), you for sure have a good shot at an interview, assuming you get above 2800 on the UCAT.

Regarding Cambridge, AAA at A-Level is generally required as a prerequisite to applying; this is because around 90%+ of applicants that have a good shot already have attained this or higher within the last five years, also in one sitting. Achieving AAA (as a minimum) within one sitting isn’t a requirement for the A101 grad course, but I think for the A100 undergrad course, but I’m sure they will take it into account for the grad course as most applicants have done this.

Nevertheless, you have a plethora of experiences and evidence to attest to your ability, so I’m pretty sure they may overlook this considering your credentials.

IN MY OPINION (before I get attacked by any lurker), you have a decent shot at both institutions. Especially for Warwick, provided you score above 2800 in the UCAT, the reason I say that specific score is because historically, they interview applicants who have scored no lower than 2800 and for Cambridge, they typically have that A-Level requirement to cut applications down, but with a 1st, PhD and everything else you have to attest to your ability I’m sure something a trivial as 3A’s not attained in the same sitting will be a big hurdle.

I hope I was clear in my explanations, and best of luck!

Reply 5

Invective

My response was assuming other aspects of your application meet their requirements.

TLDR for my other reply;

For Warwick; a score above 2800 in the UCAT, and you’re good to get an interview IMO

Cambridge;
Experience-wise, you’re good.
Academics (for Cambridge), the A-Level is a standard requirement. Still, I’m sure given your circumstances and your other evidence in support of your academic potential, it will be sufficient, provided you attain the following AA you need.

Reply 6

LDoc

You are all very generous. Thanks very much for your time, views, encouragement and wise counsel.

P.S. I have limited functionality, so I'm not currently able to reply to PMs. I will do soon!