Secular Private Schools Watch

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canuck
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In Canada, the goverment assists in paying for all chinese schools, Jewish schools, Hindu schools, Muslim schools, christian, ect. Now, isnt this policy wrong? Why should people seperate their children over race and religon? I attend a public school, and we are taught to understand each race. In those schools, all you learn and work with, is those of similar aspects as yourself.


Canada calls itself a Mosiac of cultures, while the U.S. is a melting pot. It seems to me, most that reciently immigrate don't even consider themselves Canadian, but Chinese, Indian, ect.

I support France's move to force teachers of muslim schools to force the teachers to speak French. All those who immigrate should consider themselves French, not Algerian, Muslim, ect.
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cheesecakebobby
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Gotta agree with you. What possible advantage does secular schooling provide? It just raises children with an "us and them" mentality. The only problem with the French goverment's approach (which overall, I support) is that you run the danger of washing away identity and individuality, possibly imposing the government's own ideals. However I find that unrealistic.

Secularity boils down to segregation. We shoould not be supporting the indoctrination of children, based on the background of their parents - but nor should we be erasing it. Instead, aspects of all existing cultures should be celebrated and shared- creating a new, more accomodating youth culture.
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wiwarin_mir
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(Original post by canuck)
In Canada, the goverment assists in paying for all chinese schools, Jewish schools, Hindu schools, Muslim schools, christian, ect. Now, isnt this policy wrong? Why should people seperate their children over race and religon? I attend a public school, and we are taught to understand each race. In those schools, all you learn and work with, is those of similar aspects as yourself.


Canada calls itself a Mosiac of cultures, while the U.S. is a melting pot. It seems to me, most that reciently immigrate don't even consider themselves Canadian, but Chinese, Indian, ect.

I support France's move to force teachers of muslim schools to force the teachers to speak French. All those who immigrate should consider themselves French, not Algerian, Muslim, ect.
Well it is no different elsewhere (the segrigated cultures), you will always get people of the same nationality/culture/religion creating communities and will tend to be edgy of outsiders.

I personally think that similar laws that were passed in Fance should be adopted elsewhere as such selfimposed segrigation serves nothing to further the culture diversity of a country, if anything it creates Culture ghettos.
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randdom
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I don't agree with state relgious schools. I think that it is unfair. In some areas the best schools are religious and you are discriminating against people who are not of that religion by not letting them get the best education possible. I think that only private sector schools should be allowed to be religious.
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wiwarin_mir
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(Original post by randdom)
I don't agree with state relgious schools. I think that it is unfair. In some areas the best schools are religious and you are discriminating against people who are not of that religion by not letting them get the best education possible. I think that only private sector schools should be allowed to be religious.
Some of the best non-religious state schools also are discriminating, they will only take the brightest children.
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cheesecakebobby
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(Original post by wiwarin_mir)
Some of the best non-religious state schools also are discriminating, they will only take the brightest children.
Hmm, but school is about education right, and it is a proven fact that children of different abilities perform better when taught via certain techniques. Hence there are different sets at most schools- the lower sets require different teaching methods to improve their skills, whereas the same methods would be a waste of time on those who are more able. These schools you speak of are just an extension of this. You can't say that muslim kids and christian kids require different methods of teaching to each other based on their faith (well, the faith of their parents, as the children certainly aren't old enough to make proper religious decisions)
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wiwarin_mir
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(Original post by cheesecakebobby)
Hmm, but school is about education right, and it is a proven fact that children of different abilities perform better when taught via certain techniques. Hence there are different sets at most schools- the lower sets require different teaching methods to improve their skills, whereas the same methods would be a waste of time on those who are more able. These schools you speak of are just an extension of this. You can't say that muslim kids and christian kids require different methods of teaching to each other based on their faith (well, the faith of their parents, as the children certainly aren't old enough to make proper religious decisions)
But surely these excellent schools should be open to everyone, so even the less acedemicly gifted students should be able to have first class teaching, even if they are in a lower set to the high achievers.
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Sam2k
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(Original post by cheesecakebobby)
Hmm, but school is about education right, and it is a proven fact that children of different abilities perform better when taught via certain techniques. Hence there are different sets at most schools- the lower sets require different teaching methods to improve their skills, whereas the same methods would be a waste of time on those who are more able. These schools you speak of are just an extension of this. You can't say that muslim kids and christian kids require different methods of teaching to each other based on their faith (well, the faith of their parents, as the children certainly aren't old enough to make proper religious decisions)
Actually children of different religions do require different teaching practices. Teachers have to be sensitive to the fact that they very easily could do a simple exercise and offend a child or their parents based on a religious objection.
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cheesecakebobby
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(Original post by wiwarin_mir)
But surely these excellent schools should be open to everyone, so even the less acedemicly gifted students should be able to have first class teaching, even if they are in a lower set to the high achievers.
Then they would cease to be excellent. Its not like those schools have the best teachers and the best equipment and such, its because they work their students harder. The brightest students can handle the workload and so forth, the ones who don't get in, probably wouldn't. Its the job of the open-to-all schools to support the less able students, catering for their different needs, to encourage them to work to the best of their ability, maybe even becoming better than those who are already bright, but lazy.
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cheesecakebobby
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(Original post by Moncal)
Actually children of different religions do require different teaching practices. Teachers have to be sensitive to the fact that they very easily could do a simple exercise and offend a child or their parents based on a religious objection.
Are muslims forbidden to perform calculus? Are jews not allowed practical DT lessons? :confused:
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wiwarin_mir
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(Original post by cheesecakebobby)
Then they would cease to be excellent. Its not like those schools have the best teachers and the best equipment and such, its because they work their students harder. The brightest students can handle the workload and so forth, the ones who don't get in, probably wouldn't. Its the job of the open-to-all schools to support the less able students, catering for their different needs, to encourage them to work to the best of their ability, maybe even becoming better than those who are already bright, but lazy.
Interesting, so we have an education system where everyone praisines the best schools who have excellent statistics and then we have the rest of the schools. almost the waste paper bin of the education system, where everyone not destined to do well is stuck.
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cheesecakebobby
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(Original post by wiwarin_mir)
Interesting, so we have an education system where everyone praisines the best schools who have excellent statistics and then we have the rest of the schools. almost the waste paper bin of the education system, where everyone not destined to do well is stuck.
Yes, its sad but true. But I don't see your point? Sorry.
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Sam2k
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(Original post by cheesecakebobby)
Are muslims forbidden to perform calculus? Are jews not allowed practical DT lessons? :confused:
There are just some things that some religions object to. Like an elementary teacher could show a video that shows the dairy industry or something. Hindus might object to this.
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wiwarin_mir
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(Original post by cheesecakebobby)
Yes, its sad but true. But I don't see your point? Sorry.
My point is that it is highly unfair, the less acedemic bright should not be cast aside in favour of those who are.
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cheesecakebobby
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(Original post by Moncal)
There are just some things that some religions object to. Like an elementary teacher could show a video that shows the dairy industry or something. Hindus might object to this.
I'd love to see that, Mr and Mrs Patel coming in to complain about the "ungodly and immoral" act of showing children how cheese is made

Seriously though, I don't see how anyoen with a smidgeon of intelligence would actually complain in this way, you are right it is entirely possible that someone might find something offensive that someone of a different faith might not, but that type of thing is kept out of schools. Well, its kept out of inter-faith, state schools in my experience. The only such objection I witnessed was the refusal of some Jehova's Witnesses from attending RE lessons. The teachers felt this was a shame, because those students might have had a lot of interesting stuff to say.
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an Siarach
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Multi-culturalism is doomed to failure - a nation needs one dominant culture/language or else it will eventually be torn apart by its divisions. It is Multi-ethnicism that is achievable.
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Sam2k
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(Original post by wiwarin_mir)
My point is that it is highly unfair, the less acedemic bright should not be cast aside in favour of those who are.
In most cases, academic brightness is due to a personal desire to achieve. There are of course medical exceptions.
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cheesecakebobby
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(Original post by wiwarin_mir)
My point is that it is highly unfair, the less acedemic bright should not be cast aside in favour of those who are.
They're not cast aside, they are given a method of teaching which it is felt is best for them. Those who are more academically able have their talent nurtured, as they may find the work given to those less intelligent, boring. That of course, is the promise, but as you point out, it often ends seeming very unfair. I'd say that what is most unfair is that those born into disadvantaged lives are not given the chance to do their best, or that extremely intelligent children must humble along at the pace of the rest of their class, when they are capable of being pushed much more.

Are you suggesting however, that those who can excell should be forced to do the same work as those who struggle at school? Because you can't say that those who are less able should be handed more challenging work which they are not ready for yet.
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an Siarach
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(Original post by wiwarin_mir)
My point is that it is highly unfair, the less acedemic bright should not be cast aside in favour of those who are.
Which is why there should be vocationally oriented schools for those who are less academically able much as we used to have with grammar - secondary modern schools to cater for both types of students. Labour decided it far wiser for absolutely every pupil to have an academic education forced down their throats, regardless of whether this education was relevant or within their abilities , and thus got rid of grammars etc to replace them with the comprehensive system which has failed utterly. Where before kids from *****y areas could get into good universities through the grammar schools they are now stuck with their failing local school. In attempting to 'widen access' and remove 'elitism' labour simply managed to make it harder for poor kids to get a decent education and ensured that the best universities became increasingly reliant on private schools.
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cheesecakebobby
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(Original post by an Siarach)
Which is why there should be vocationally oriented schools for those who are less academically able much as we used to have with grammar - secondary modern schools to cater for both types of students. Labour decided it far wiser for absolutely every pupil to have an academic education forced down their throats, regardless of whether this education was relevant or within their abilities , and thus got rid of grammars etc to replace them with the comprehensive system which has failed utterly. Where before kids from *****y areas could get into good universities through the grammar schools they are now stuck with their failing local school. In attempting to 'widen access' and remove 'elitism' labour simply managed to make it harder for poor kids to get a decent education and ensured that the best universities became increasingly reliant on private schools.
Really? I went to a grammar school for 2 terms but didn't like it. There were about 3 in my area I could have applied to. I didn't realise this was happening.
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