oxbridge applications company - unethical?

I just got the following email:

Oxbridge interviews are now a thing of the past. If you got an offer, congratulations! If not, the very fact that you were good enough to apply marks you out as one of the brightest students in the country and we hope that the other universities you’ve applied to have realised the mistake Oxford/Cambridge has made and given you an offer.

At the start of each year we conduct research into what Oxbridge interviews are really like – it’s confidential and provides you with a chance to tell those who matter (we always get press coverage) what those tutors are really up to. We'd be very appreciative if you could fill out our 15-minute questionnaire on what your interview was like, which also gives you the chance to enter our prize draw! We will be randomly selecting one questionnaire from every 200 to win a mini-iPod, and the applicant who returns the most comprehensively completed questionnaire will also win an iPod. In order to enter you must submit your completed form by 20th January 2005.

You can find the questionnaire at http://www.oxbridgeapplications.com/page.asp?id=51.

We wish you a Happy New Year.

The Oxbridge Applications Team
13-14 New Bond Street
London
W1S 3SX
0870 080 1940

Amongst the questions they ask are 'who was your interviewer', 'which college?' 'which subject' etc and 'what questions where you asked'.

Surely what they're doing here is pretty unethical since if some candidates have paid to get a list of likely interview questions they they have an advantage over candidates who can't pay or choose not to pay? Colleges seem to put a lot of time and effort into interviewing and this must just make it harder. Who would help this company cheat the system?

Personally I'm shocked ! :eek:

Emily x

Reply 1

inactive__user

I think it is disgusting, but I guess what happens at many schools (including my own) is just a watered down version of this as candidates do get special attention. But I think the main thing which is unethical about it is that these people are taking ridiculous amount of money simply to pass on information which is not too hard to find. If you look on the internet enough anyone can find lots of past questions and tips etc for Oxbridge which costs nothing and is available to all. I think this is a much better way of trying to improve your chances as it is based on your own initiative (I personally found it infinitely more helpful doing this than what we got told in school).

Reply 2

WhatFreshHell?

2

If you have to pay for the extra info then I agree it's unethical; if they're compiling questionaires like oa.waveflex.com, which are free for anyone to look at, then it's a great idea.

Reply 3

ponjavic

1

emily87

I just got the following email:

Amongst the questions they ask are 'who was your interviewer', 'which college?' 'which subject' etc and 'what questions where you asked'.

Surely what they're doing here is pretty unethical since if some candidates have paid to get a list of likely interview questions they they have an advantage over candidates who can't pay or choose not to pay? Colleges seem to put a lot of time and effort into interviewing and this must just make it harder. Who would help this company cheat the system?

Personally I'm shocked ! :eek:

Emily x

What's sad is that the same thing goes for the oa.waveflex.com site though it doesn't intend to make a profit. This site is a great resource for anyone but is it too unethical?

Reply 4

WhatFreshHell?

2

Sounds like another "private education is morally wrong" fight here...

Reply 5

Brown Patrick Bateman

10

emily87

Surely what they're doing here is pretty unethical since if some candidates have paid to get a list of likely interview questions they they have an advantage over candidates who can't pay or choose not to pay?

How is that any different to students at top public schools (= better education, greater likelihood of getting into a top uni, better preparation for interviews, more help writing a personal statement and probably better references) having an advantage over students who's parents can't afford to send them to a good school?

Reply 6

inactive__user

This site is a great resource for anyone but is it too unethical?

No I found it very useful but why is it unethical? It is freely available to anyone with the initiative to go out there and find it.

Reply 7

inactive__user

How is that any different to students at top public schools (= better education, greater likelihood of getting into a top uni, better preparation for interviews, more help writing a personal statement and probably better references) having an advantage over students who's parents can't afford to send them to a good school?

I go to a private school (admittedly it isn't Eton or anything) and I did get help with my application, and possibly more than at other schools. However I repeat what I said earlier in the thread that everything I was told is either common sense or can be found on the internet along with a lot more useful information which I was not told by my school (eg. oa.waveflex.com) which anyone who has the initiative can go out and find for themselves even if they go to the worst school in the country.

Reply 8

emily87

OP

9

Jools

How is that any different to students at top public schools (= better education, greater likelihood of getting into a top uni, better preparation for interviews, more help writing a personal statement and probably better references) having an advantage over students who's parents can't afford to send them to a good school?

maybe because tutors can see on your form that you go to a private school but noone knows if you have used a company like OA?

Reply 9

Brown Patrick Bateman

10

RA87

I go to a private school (admittedly it isn't Eton or anything) and I did get help with my application, and possibly more than at other schools. However I repeat what I said earlier in the thread that everything I was told is either common sense or can be found on the internet along with a lot more useful information which I was not told by my school (eg. oa.waveflex.com) which anyone who has the initiative can go out and find for themselves even if they go to the worst school in the country.

I said 'top public school' to not start a "private school kids get spoonfed, comp kids have to fend for themselves" argument. At certain schools, they hire in independent consultants to teach students how to cope with interview technique prior to their Oxbridge interviews, for example.

Reply 10

Brown Patrick Bateman

10

emily87

maybe because tutors can see on your form that you go to a private school but noone knows if you have used a company like OA?

Despite claims to the contrary, many completely ignore what type of school you went to and treat everyone on a level playing field.

Reply 11

Hash

emily87

maybe because tutors can see on your form that you go to a private school but noone knows if you have used a company like OA?

But I doubt OA will make you into the person oxbridge are looking for. In the end it comes down to your natural intelligence and flair. No matter how many profiles you've browsed through nor the training you've done can prepare you for the academic questions.

Schooling is an entirely diffferent thing.

Reply 12

Valerio

I am sure Oxbrigde admissions officers are aware of this. And they surely do change the question they ask every year.
On the other hand, student could get a feel of the type of questions that they might encounter in university, and be more accostummed to the problems in the real world situations.

Personaaly, I would not use this service, not that I think it's cheating, but that I can do it without thier help, that way the sense of achievement is greater, besides many got accepted without training.
And although I have nothing against it, I won't, unless I get bored, fill in teh form.

Reply 13

WhatFreshHell?

2

Lots of perfectly intelligent (oftentimes state school) applicants get rejected because they don't know what to expect at interview and they don't know anyone with any experience who can help them.

From surfing the OA profiles and from here, I think I was a lot more prepared than if I had done nothing and just hoped my intelligence would shine through. And that was all free.

Btw I didnt pay a single penny to help me get my Oxford offer

Reply 14

iRock

WhatFreshHell?

Btw I didnt pay a single penny to help me get my Oxford offer

Me neither. However I went to an interview preparation day that Oxbridge Applications put on, but only because my school paid for us (about 8 of us) to go. Not quite sure how helpful it was, they gave me two mock interviews and the questions were nothing like the real thing, and the feedback I got was pretty negative. But then I suppose it motivated me to improve for my real interviews.

I got the e-mail as well, I don't think the questionnaire is unethical... you can win an iPod. :aetsch:

Reply 15

ThePants999

14

emily87

Who would help this company cheat the system?

So far, over 200 people and counting. I don't have a problem with what they're doing - although of course if I did, I wouldn't have created this online questionnaire for them! :smile:

Reply 16

Alewhey

I think it is unethical, for several reasons.

These people operate a business a large part of which revolves around asking students out of the blue if they would provide fairly exclusive information for free (and don't start about 'winning an ipod' The very language suggests it is a gift [read:bribe], not a payment). Basically, they are leeches. And the business they operate is lucrative, make no mistake. I think I remember, for the full week hardcore private training, it costs parents several thousand pounds.

Another thing I don't like. They are playing on people's insecurities. The student's fear that they might not be good enough without help. They play up the myth that Oxbridge is some 'promised land' and that in order to enter, you must be special. To a certain extent, they are exploiting people.

Finally, the last thing I do not like is the fact that (according to their website) they actually work. Suggesting that the whole delicate imprecise interview system can be manipulated if you have enough money; also destroying any notions that entrance to Oxbridge is purely meritocratic.

As a final muse, think about this; if every student took their training courses, they would become redundent. Their whole business model revolves around the fact that some students parents will not, for whatever reason, shell out the money.

Reply 17

ThePants999

14

Alewhey

These people operate a business a large part of which revolves around asking students out of the blue if they would provide fairly exclusive information for free (and don't start about 'winning an ipod' The very language suggests it is a gift [read:bribe], not a payment). Basically, they are leeches.

It's an incentive. The particular subcategory of incentive you choose to describe it is irrelevant. They want people to give them something they wouldn't give for nothing, so they provide an incentive. If that's unethical, then good God - so is just about every business on earth.

Another thing I don't like. They are playing on people's insecurities. . . . To a certain extent, they are exploiting people.

Hmm - sounds to me like every insurance company in existence, security firms, most banks - hell, even the Government.

Finally, the last thing I do not like is the fact that (according to their website) they actually work.

It's a pity you don't like that fact. Still, it's a fact.

As a final muse, think about this; if every student took their training courses, they would become redundent. Their whole business model revolves around the fact that some students parents will not, for whatever reason, shell out the money.

Think about this: if every student went to university, degrees would become redundant. If every firm in an industry invested in a particular computer system, then as a means of giving them an advantage it would be redundant. If every supermarket puts a particular product on offer, it becomes redundant. Once again, this is a concept that's very common and hardly a fault.

Reply 18

musicbloke

17

ThePants999

Think about this: if every student went to university, degrees would become redundant.

Well, I for one cannot understand the logic of this statement.

MB

Reply 19

JaF

1

ThePants999

Think about this: if every student went to university, degrees would become redundant.

What a load of crap. The purpose of a degree isn't neccessary to get something that nobody else has. It is to prepare for a chosen career or to further your knowledge of a particular subject.

oxbridge applications company - unethical?

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