Good University Guide:Oxford and Cambridge miss out on top spot in rankings

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SpaceLover29
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"The University of St Andrews was placed in first place, after only a small drop in student satisfaction during the pandemic.

For the first time ever, neither Cambridge nor Oxford have topped The Times and The Sunday Times Good University Guide, with the University of St Andrews securing the No 1 spot.

No university has been placed higher than the Oxbridge institutions in the guide's 30-year history, or any other domestic university rankings.

St Andrews, in Scotland, has been closing in on the top spot for several years with high student satisfaction scores."


Full article - https://news.sky.com/story/good-univ...kings-12409445



Here is what St Andrews had to say about it:


https://news.st-andrews.ac.uk/archive/top-of-the-class/


"St Andrews makes history by topping definitive UK university ranking

The University of St Andrews has been ranked the top university in the United Kingdom, according to The Times and Sunday Times Good University Guide 2022 published today (17 September 2021).

It is the first time in the near 30-year history of the definitive Guide, and UK university league tables in general, that a university other than Oxford or Cambridge has topped the rankings.

St Andrews took first place this year by virtue of its strong performances in student satisfaction, research, teaching quality, entry standards and graduate outcomes.

The University has been consistently amongst the top three in the Times and Sunday Times Guide in recent years. The methodology used by the Guide editors to rank the UK’s universities has not changed this year.

Guide Editor Alastair McCall, said: “St Andrews’ achievement in topping our institutional table should not be underestimated. Never before has any university other than Cambridge and Oxford finished top of our – or any other – domestic ranking of universities.

“It is no fluke. The University has been closing in on the Oxbridge duopoly for several years, buoyed by outstanding levels of student satisfaction which have peaked during the past year of pandemic disruption on campus. The lead St Andrews now has over other universities in this key area of university performance is remarkable.

“Its wider contribution as a centre of teaching and outstanding research marks it out as a global player in the international higher education marketplace.

“Strange to say for an institution that has been around for 600 years, but topping our UK rankings for the first time truly marks St Andrews “arrival” as a serious challenger to Oxford and Cambridge.”

University Chancellor, Lord Campbell of Pittenweem, said: “This welcome and deserved achievement reflects the outstanding nature of the student experience at St Andrews University.

“Under the inspired leadership of the Principal, Professor Sally Mapstone, and her senior team, the standards set in these difficult times in teaching, research, and management at every level are truly remarkable.”

President of the St Andrews Students’ Association, Lottie Doherty, said: “It’s amazing news. It’s brilliant that St Andrews has made number one, not just for the University and its staff but for all the students here as well.

“It really is a testament to how well the last year has gone despite the difficult conditions.

“Students worked so hard to get good grades and engage with their classes and studies even though it has been online and under very difficult circumstances. It is brilliant to see that recognised.

“I think it really shows how hard working and passionate the students and staff are about St Andrews and about their learning to adapt to such difficult circumstances and come out number one this year.”

Principal and Vice-Chancellor, Professor Sally Mapstone, said: “I am thrilled for our students, staff and alumni. They are the people who made this happen.”
“As one community, we strive constantly for excellence, and have a strategy that hasn’t been afraid to believe St Andrews could challenge at the very top by combining the best teaching, world-leading research, and an unswerving commitment to student satisfaction and achievement.

“Of course we’ll enjoy this remarkable result, and I expect there may be a little good-natured cross-border teasing amongst colleagues.

“Principals have a longstanding tradition of celebrating good league table results, and quietly ignoring those that may not be so flattering, and I have every intention of observing that tradition.

“We have been in very good company close to the top of this definitive league table for several years, but until now, always on someone’s shoulder.

“I hope the fact that the staff and students of a small, Scottish institution have been able to break through the hitherto impenetrable Oxbridge ceiling will inspire others, and show that the status quo is only that if you allow it to be.”

In addition to the institutional ranking the University also tops seven of the subject league tables. St Andrews is top in the UK for Business Management and marketing, Computer Science, English, Middle Eastern and African studies, Philosophy, Physics and Astronomy, and International Relations."
Last edited by SpaceLover29; 4 weeks ago
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SpaceLover29
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I know rankings aren't everything but it's still nice to see another university other than Oxbridge being at the top of one of them.
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oppiwall
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Over reliant on student satisfaction ratings,St Andrews tops seven subject tables,lets see how many O and C top when its published..
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j.e2003
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well it's about time, i'm sick of seeing oxbridge as the pinnacle of educational status here in the uk, recently been tired of how elitist their whole system is sigh
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SpaceLover29
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(Original post by oppiwall)
Over reliant on student satisfaction ratings,St Andrews tops seven subject tables,lets see how many O and C top when its published..
Someone sounds a bit annoyed that Oxbridge aren't top...
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jaygatsby82
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Woo up scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
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SpaceLover29
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(Original post by j.e2003)
well it's about time, i'm sick of seeing oxbridge as the pinnacle of educational status here in the uk, recently been tired of how elitist their whole system is sigh
Whilst they probably are still "the best" universities in the country, I am happy that other universities are getting more focus and attention, especially one that isn't in the Russell Group.
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SpaceLover29
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(Original post by Reality Check)
I'm sorry you didn't get offered a place. You could always reapply next year
Yet again, you make a comment that just isn't needed.

To be honest, despite me still thinking that Oxbridge is the best, it is nice to see something break the elitist view and have other universities have some time in the spotlight.
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Reality Check
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(Original post by SpaceLover29)
To be honest, despite me still thinking that Oxbridge is the best, it is nice to see something break the elitist view and have other universities have some time in the spotlight.
What does that even mean, 'nice'? Why is it 'nice'?

What 'elitist view'. What does that mean?
Last edited by Reality Check; 4 weeks ago
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SpaceLover29
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(Original post by Reality Check)
What does that even mean, 'nice'? Why is it 'nice'?

What 'elitist view'. What does that mean?
Oxbridge aren't the only great universities in the country so it is nice to see other universities get some praise for once.
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Reality Check
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(Original post by SpaceLover29)
Oxbridge aren't the only great universities in the country so it is nice to see other universities get some praise for once.
I don't see anywhere any sensible publication saying that Oxbridge are 'the only great universities in the country'. I also see lots of other universities received 'praise' (whatever that means).

It just sounds like people who have a bit of a chip on their shoulder about Oxford and Cambridge rejoicing because one league table has a non-Oxbridge university at the top. This is nothing about being 'happy' for other universities: it's about feeling that someone has cocked a snoop at Oxbridge.

Bit silly, really.
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Reality Check
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(Original post by SpaceLover29)
Yet you are the one dismissing other people's opinions and calling them silly.
What a strange rant.

Please try to stick to the rules of posting on TSR. You can find those here. I suggest that if you can't cope with someone expressing an opinion you disagree with, then you don't make posts in a public forum.

Thanks.
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Theloniouss
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For many years the rankings have been creeping up on this. In reality, it is common knowledge that the rankings will be whatever the publisher wants them to be. I'm sure this move will generate a lot of attention and controversy, precisely as intended.
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SpaceLover29
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(Original post by Theloniouss)
For many years the rankings have been creeping up on this. In reality, it is common knowledge that the rankings will be whatever the publisher wants them to be. I'm sure this move will generate a lot of attention and controversy, precisely as intended.
They do say the methodology hasn't changed so clearly something has gotten worse with Oxbridge and/or better with St Andrews.
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Sinnoh
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(Original post by SpaceLover29)
They do say the methodology hasn't changed so clearly something has gotten worse with Oxbridge and/or better with St Andrews.
Well it can't be student satisfaction, don't Oxford and Cambridge boycott the NSS every time?
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Reality Check
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(Original post by Theloniouss)
For many years the rankings have been creeping up on this. In reality, it is common knowledge that the rankings will be whatever the publisher wants them to be. I'm sure this move will generate a lot of attention and controversy, precisely as intended.
Yes, exactly. It's not likely that someone with an offer from Oxford or Cambridge, and one from St. Andys, is going to read that table and go 'oh, in that case I'll choose Andys then'. :laugh:
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Theloniouss
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(Original post by SpaceLover29)
They do say the methodology hasn't changed so clearly something has gotten worse with Oxbridge and/or better with St Andrews.
The Times has never published their methodology, and it wouldn't just be a formula anyway. I strongly suspect that (like the Guardian rankings) there is a healthy dose of editor opinion taken into account.

Even if this isn't a deliberate ploy for attention (not that there is any doubt in my mind that it is), the data used to create these tables is usually poor quality and generally meaningless - not even mentioning that they don't have any student satisfaction data for Cambridge or Oxford, which is a significant reason St Andrews scores so highly.
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SpaceLover29
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(Original post by Theloniouss)
The Times has never published their methodology, and it wouldn't just be a formula anyway. I strongly suspect that (like the Guardian rankings) there is a healthy dose of editor opinion taken into account.

Even if this isn't a deliberate ploy for attention (not that there is any doubt in my mind that it is), the data used to create these tables is usually poor quality and generally meaningless - not even mentioning that they don't have any student satisfaction data for Cambridge or Oxford, which is a significant reason St Andrews scores so highly.
I'm glad to see though that you seem to be making accusations without any proof though. Love to see it

I'm not saying league tables are perfect, but I am yet to see anyone actually bring out any evidence that there is a "healthy dose of editor opinion taken into account".
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mnot
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How would a league table which operates behind a paywall sucker in people to pay to view, I wonder what they could do to the league table so the headlines would get some blockhead to pay.
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SpaceLover29
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(Original post by mnot)
How would a league table which operates behind a paywall sucker in people to pay to view, I wonder what they could do to the league table so the headlines would get some blockhead to pay.
So why haven't they been bringing out wild results every single year?
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