I think Keir cares about the working class.

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!Capercaillie
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Where have I or any other right wingers on this thread denied Tory responsibility for that? So nice strawman bro.

This thread is about the walking fecal matter that is Starmer and his labour party. If you want to make a thread to trash the record of the conservative party I'd be more than happy to join in on that: They are on the whole a corrupt bunch of incompetent morons and traitors.

I have never voted conservative and until there is a decent Tory candidate in my area I never will.
Mass distraction works so effectively. We saw Trump do it as he delivered massive tax cuts to the establishment elite while offering crumbs to the American working classes, we see the largest right wing movement in Britain, the Conservative Party, do it. Yet you are more concerned with a party that has been out of power for more than a decade. So well done on demonstrating my point.
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Rakas21
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#42
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(Original post by !Capercaillie)
Mass distraction works so effectively. We saw Trump do it as he delivered massive tax cuts to the establishment elite while offering crumbs to the American working classes, we see the largest right wing movement in Britain, the Conservative Party, do it. Yet you are more concerned with a party that has been out of power for more than a decade. So well done on demonstrating my point.
It would be nice not to be concerned at the state of the Labour party however you forget that they willingly elected Corbyn not once but twice and that those members still remain.

In their thirst for socialism the membership of the Labour Party willingly elected a man who believes in republicanism, willingly elected a man who does not support the union, willingly elected a man who believes in pacifism (that's before we consider folk like Abbot who believe in repetitions). These were not simple differences in economic outcomes which can easily be forgiven but symptoms of those of who would sacrifice the substance of their history and identity in the persuit of their aims.
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by !Capercaillie)
Mass distraction works so effectively.

We saw Trump do it as he delivered massive tax cuts to the establishment elite while offering crumbs to the American working classes, we see the largest right wing movement in Britain, the Conservative Party, do it.

Yet you are more concerned with a party that has been out of power for more than a decade. So well done on demonstrating my point.
What mass distractions? Do tell? If you're saying that the woke agenda isn't important then that's fine I agree with you. But then they need to stop promoting it.

If I was in power and I banned LGBT rights and abortion and you kicked up a fuss about it, what would you say if I said "oh those are just distractions, you should be more worried about economic policy"?

Well If the useless labour party are destroyed we might actually get some decent opposition... But in any case I am actually more concerned with how crap the Tories are and how they're squandering their majority than with the labour debacle.

It's hilarious how dishonest you are and yet are so transparent in trying to deflect away any criticism of the labour party. This thread is about Starmer and labour. Not Trump and the Tory party.
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by Rakas21)
elected a man who believes in republicanism, willingly elected a man who does not support the union, willingly elected a man who believes in not going to war for Zionism
Yeah but he had a lot of downsides too tbf

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L i b
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I think it is a problem when people get some sort of kudos for emotional responses and good intentions, compared to actually making an improvement to people's lives. Sadly, I think it's all too common in society. It can be - and inevitably is - deployed endlessly to justify endless ****-ups and nonsense. It's the other side of a coin to forgiving Boris Johnson anything because you think he's "sound" because he supported Brexit.

The depth of Keir Starmer - or any other political leader - in caring isn't really what I'm looking for in a politician. They actually have to do stuff - and, ideally, do it well.
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Napp
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The lack of any kind of basis for these claims is rather amusing, if saddening that such tripe is still widely accepted as fact for no particular reason.
Take this little ditty:
In politics the far right tend to hate the working class and the far right tends to see the working class as parasites on the rich,.
Have you not noticed that most members of the 'far right' are working class? :rolleyes: Theyre certainly not middle/upper class by and large.
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by Napp)
Have you not noticed that most members of the 'far right' are working class? :rolleyes: Theyre certainly not middle/upper class by and large.
An oldie but still spot on. (2:00 in A posh aspiring doctor wishing death on people who vote conservative)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VcuoEVcsLcs&t=60s
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Napp
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
An oldie but still spot on. (2:00 in A posh aspiring doctor wishing death on people who vote conservative)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VcuoEVcsLcs&t=60s
2 points:
1) She wished death on Boris, not working class voters (unless i misheard something there)\
2) Said posh teenager, ignorant or not, doesnt exactly scream 'far right' as opposed to far left?

Either way, it does rather show how toxic politics is, on both ends. With brexit lot calling anyone who likes europe traitors (implicitly saying they should be hing) and the rest banging on about filthy right wingers who want to drown the poor. Theyre both moronic groups. The far right tending to be uneducated and the far left, ironically, usually fairly educated (even if it is a non-subject like gender studies or CRT) but ignorant to the point of being little more than brainwashed maoists.
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by Napp)
2 points:
1) She wished death on Boris, not working class voters (unless i misheard something there)\
2) Said posh teenager, ignorant or not, doesnt exactly scream 'far right' as opposed to far left?

Either way, it does rather show how toxic politics is, on both ends. With brexit lot calling anyone who likes europe traitors (implicitly saying they should be hing) and the rest banging on about filthy right wingers who want to drown the poor. Theyre both moronic groups. The far right tending to be uneducated and the far left, ironically, usually fairly educated (even if it is a non-subject like gender studies or CRT) but ignorant to the point of being little more than brainwashed maoists.
1- yes , I was being hyperbolic but in any case wishing a painful death on the prime minister is hardly ", tolerant" is it?
2- no but I didn't say she was far right lol, I'm not ascend going on about horseshoe theory lol

People on the right tend to be dumb or smart and people on the left tend to be of average intelligence. The same is also coincidentally true of men and women respectively.
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Napp
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(Original post by !Capercaillie)
Mass distraction works so effectively. We saw Trump do it as he delivered massive tax cuts to the establishment elite while offering crumbs to the American working classes, we see the largest right wing movement in Britain, the Conservative Party, do it. Yet you are more concerned with a party that has been out of power for more than a decade. So well done on demonstrating my point.
Which ones exactly?
As to calling the oldest and most successful political party in the UK a 'movement' seriously? Corbynism was a movement, a damn stupid one at that, its reaching to cause the Tory's one though :lol:
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Napp
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
1- yes , I was being hyperbolic but in any case wishing a painful death on the prime minister is hardly ", tolerant" is it?
2- no but I didn't say she was far right lol, I'm not ascend going on about horseshoe theory lol

People on the right tend to be dumb or smart and people on the left tend to be of average intelligence. The same is also coincidentally true of men and women respectively.
No it is not, although i can think of people id be more sympathetic too.
Ah its been a while since i heard that one :lol: always found it a bit of an odd one imo but there we go.
Mmm its always been fun seeing, almost universally, hard left sorts (almost always on this site) proclaiming, very loudly, how big their brains are for having a masters yet neglect to mention its in a non-subject from a quasi-uni that barely merits a glance. It might be a bit of a cliche to note the 'school of hardknocks'/life but there is a good point to that. Lived experiences tend to be somewhat more useful than just reciting verbatim from a book.. or perverse political manifesto written by some idiotic lunatic.
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by Napp)
No it is not, although i can think of people id be more sympathetic too.
Ah its been a while since i heard that one :lol: always found it a bit of an odd one imo but there we go.
Mmm its always been fun seeing, almost universally, hard left sorts (almost always on this site) proclaiming, very loudly, how big their brains are for having a masters yet neglect to mention its in a non-subject from a quasi-uni that barely merits a glance. It might be a bit of a cliche to note the 'school of hardknocks'/life but there is a good point to that. Lived experiences tend to be somewhat more useful than just reciting verbatim from a book.. or perverse political manifesto written by some idiotic lunatic.
True. I mean I don't really have a problem with people saying they want to kill Boris. My issue is it's these same people who cry and say we need to have no free speech because somebody called Emily Thornberry fat on YouTube or something. It's not even the hypocrisy that bothers me it's just the complete lack of self awareness and "critical thinking" (now there's a misused term...:rolleyes:)

Completely agree. You may be an expert in your field but if you can't boil an egg or leave your house without having a nervous breakdown you should have a bit more humility.
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
True. I mean I don't really have a problem with people saying they want to kill Boris. My issue is it's these same people who cry and say we need to have no free speech because somebody called Emily Thornberry fat on YouTube or something. It's not even the hypocrisy that bothers me it's just the complete lack of self awareness and "critical thinking" (now there's a misused term...:rolleyes:)
True say on that, dont get me started on the terms those oiks have appropriated and corrupted. From 'triggered' originally being a serious thing for people with PTSD and the like now seeming to mean any poor little soul who gets offended by something. Which now i come to think of it as actually, ironically enough, rather offensive to those who have PTSD and similar conditions where getting triggered is less a matter of being upset but ending up in a seriously unpleasant mental space with panic attacks and dissociating etc.
Completely agree. You may be an expert in your field but if you can't boil an egg or leave your house without having a nervous breakdown you should have a bit more humility.
Indeed. The detachment from reality is quite impressive though, if nothing else.
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imlikeahermit
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#54
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
True. I mean I don't really have a problem with people saying they want to kill Boris. My issue is it's these same people who cry and say we need to have no free speech because somebody called Emily Thornberry fat on YouTube or something. It's not even the hypocrisy that bothers me it's just the complete lack of self awareness and "critical thinking" (now there's a misused term...:rolleyes:)

Completely agree. You may be an expert in your field but if you can't boil an egg or leave your house without having a nervous breakdown you should have a bit more humility.
Which is entirely the issue with Blair’s university generations. They are experts in their field, although some of those fields are not particularly green, yet they’ve got no common sense or life experience whatsoever because they were chained down the conveyor belt from university into some graduate program.
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Jingo7
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Kier Starmer doesn't actually know anything about politics. He was a lawyer, he knows how to say words which are appropriate to the setting, but he has no substance to back them up.

So when you say 'he cares about the working class', it's like, this doesn't even compute. Kier Starmer doesn't have a class analysis of the UK for starters. He doesn't have that Leftist gut instinct which is on the side of the poor, he doesn't have the first clue what he's doing. He is an opportunist. He looks for ways to appear 'correct', and even on these terms he fails hard. If he had looked even momentarily at what policies were actually popular (broad nationalisations, 2nd NHS for care work, green new deal etc.) he would have backed and substantiated at least one or two of these.

Instead Kier continues the Labour civil war, pushing the party to the Right, repelling existing party members and making it so that an accident like Jeremy Corbyn never happens again.

Edit: Say whatever you want about Corbyn, he pulled millennials into the party, he got some energy going, and his policies were Left leaning and (in some demographics) popular. I cannot isolate a single Starmer policy that the Conservatives haven't already done, they are outflanking him from the Left! How embarrassing!
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Jingo7
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
True. I mean I don't really have a problem with people saying they want to kill Boris. My issue is it's these same people who cry and say we need to have no free speech because somebody called Emily Thornberry fat on YouTube or something. It's not even the hypocrisy that bothers me it's just the complete lack of self awareness and "critical thinking" (now there's a misused term...:rolleyes:)
Yes. Although it's probably different Leftists who are doing the murder-fantasy and the crying. If I had to choose, it would be the former, with acceptance of 'what goes around comes around'. Alas the Right are right in some basic points, we do have a cry baby Left right now.
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Jingo7
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(Original post by Napp)
True say on that, dont get me started on the terms those oiks have appropriated and corrupted. From 'triggered' originally being a serious thing for people with PTSD and the like now seeming to mean any poor little soul who gets offended by something. Which now i come to think of it as actually, ironically enough, rather offensive to those who have PTSD and similar conditions where getting triggered is less a matter of being upset but ending up in a seriously unpleasant mental space with panic attacks and dissociating etc.

Indeed. The detachment from reality is quite impressive though, if nothing else.
It propbably won't intesrest you, but issues like safe spaces, triggering etc. are controversial within the Left as well (at least amongst some circles.) The Left isn't some mono-think where we are all brain-dead you know.
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by Jingo7)
Yes. Although it's probably different Leftists who are doing the murder-fantasy and the crying. If I had to choose, it would be the former, with acceptance of 'what goes around comes around'.

Alas the Right are right in some basic points, we do have a cry baby Left right now.
Former what?

Ah you've fallen for the right wing mistake of viewing lefties getting triggered as weakness. It's actually not.

Look at the desired outcome and the motivation.

It doesn't matter if the purple haired feminist is crying or is saying she is triggered or something. What she is really communicating is that what you are doing is wrong and you need to stop it and as such there is an implicit understanding that if you don't then violence against you will be justified.
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(Original post by Jingo7)
It propbably won't intesrest you, but issues like safe spaces, triggering etc. are controversial within the Left as well (at least amongst some circles.) The Left isn't some mono-think where we are all brain-dead you know.
No but there are tendencies and trends at play as different events and fashions happen. Lefties such as Tankies etc disagree with that liberal garbage but they are increasingly irrelevant in the West and shunned by their former "comrades"

The same thing is happening on the right where neocons have out of hatred for Trump formed an unholy alliance with the left.
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Napp
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(Original post by Jingo7)
It propbably won't intesrest you, but issues like safe spaces, triggering etc. are controversial within the Left as well (at least amongst some circles.) The Left isn't some mono-think where we are all brain-dead you know.
It doesnt come across that way, from those who post on here to those who make comments in the media they treat triggering and safe spaces as some petty irrelevance that should be open to every precious darling who is offended by something they dont wish to hear as opposed to the actual term which is of a rather serious nature.
Merely look at some of those videos of student protests (the one where they harassed a uni professor and called his comments 'violent' springs to mind) where the idea of triggering seems to have been utterly corrupted by the activist wing to be utterly meaningless now and the apparent preserve of overly sensitive sorts who, if we go by what they say, have no business being in a university or the wider world in the first place, if they cant handle basic facts of life.

I would be curious as to exactly how controversial it is apparently is though, the activist wing might not make up a majority of the left (or right for that matter) but it still the noisiest and thus the one that tends to lead where sensible people fear to tread.
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