I think Keir cares about the working class.

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Louis IX
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#61
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#61
(Original post by Starship Trooper)
I'm not ascend going on about horseshoe theory lol
Horseshoe theory only makes sense if you assume that:
1) liberalism is a good thing in and of itself, (lol no)
2) any critics of liberalism would prefer any alternative to liberalism over liberalism (also no, I don't see many woke uni students talking about how much they'd like to live in Afghanistan)
3) everyone who isn't a liberal has more in common with each other than liberals (also no, I have nothing in common with a Marxist and I don't think a Marxist would want to have anything in common with a tradcath like me)

Basically, it only makes sense if you're a completely blinkered liberal who views everything that doesn't support letting the country be run by Bezos so long as they hold a pride parade or two, so it's no surprise that certain users on this forum bring it out in every argument they can find.
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Starship Trooper
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#62
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#62
(Original post by Louis IX)
Horseshoe theory only makes sense if you assume...
I don't disagree with anything you've said.

It is inaccurate when describing traditional conservatives and reactionaries like us.

But I think with other right wing groups there is something to it. For instances: hardcore libertarians and neonazis.

There is a point where I think libertarians cross over into the left as I'm sure you're aware of- obv there is a lot of crossover- both anti borders, both for absoloute personal freedom etc-

And with NeoNazis or WigNats - it's actually hilarious how they've actually become left wing. If you get BLM literature, replace the word "White" with "Jews" and "Black" with "White" and you're basically there. I actually was banned from one of their platforms age s ago for (Among other things eg bullying/trolling people) mocking the pagans on there which have come up with these elaborate copes as to how weak Christians overpowered the mighty pagans LMAO. There are plenty of other examples too, eg they're economically left wing.

So basically I'm saying that the role of ideology is a circular liberal concept that people on the right need to transcend entirely by returning to God/Theology.
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boycottdiversity
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#63
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#63
Keir is Tony Blair

Boris is fat Blair with yellow hair

They all serve the same master
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londonmyst
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#64
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#64
(Original post by boycottdiversity)
Keir is Tony Blair

Boris is fat Blair with yellow hair

They all serve the same master
Yes, their own grand financial ambitions.
Mostly focused upon the maximisation of their very useful contacts books and future earnings potential when they have had enough of politics or politics has had enough of them. :rolleyes:
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Starship Trooper
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#65
(Original post by londonmyst)
Yes, their own grand financial ambitions.
Mostly focused upon the maximisation of their very useful contacts books and future earnings potential when they have had enough of politics or politics has had enough of them. :rolleyes:
I think he's on about the Jews
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londonmyst
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#66
(Original post by Starship Trooper)
I think he's on about the Jews
Could also be the freemasons.
Or xenu (scientology's infamous intergalactic warlord). :cookie:
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by londonmyst)
Could also be the freemasons.
Or xenu (scientology's infamous intergalactic warlord). :cookie:
It's actually all of them plus the lizard people.
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Louis IX
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#68
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
I don't disagree with anything you've said.

It is inaccurate when describing traditional conservatives and reactionaries like us.

But I think with other right wing groups there is something to it. For instances: hardcore libertarians and neonazis.

There is a point where I think libertarians cross over into the left as I'm sure you're aware of- obv there is a lot of crossover- both anti borders, both for absoloute personal freedom etc-

And with NeoNazis or WigNats - it's actually hilarious how they've actually become left wing. If you get BLM literature, replace the word "White" with "Jews" and "Black" with "White" and you're basically there. I actually was banned from one of their platforms age s ago for (Among other things eg bullying/trolling people) mocking the pagans on there which have come up with these elaborate copes as to how weak Christians overpowered the mighty pagans LMAO. There are plenty of other examples too, eg they're economically left wing.

So basically I'm saying that the role of ideology is a circular liberal concept that people on the right need to transcend entirely by returning to God/Theology.
PRSOM.
(Original post by londonmyst)
Or xenu (scientology's infamous intergalactic warlord). :cookie:
Thanks, now my thetans hurt. :lol:
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londonmyst
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#69
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#69
(Original post by Louis IX)
Thanks, now my thetans hurt. :lol:
You'll feel a lot better as soon as you've signed the billion year contract and agreed to pay for a dozen courses.
All the pain will be transferred to your wallet.
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Louis IX
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(Original post by londonmyst)
You'll feel a lot better as soon as you've signed the billion year contract and agreed to pay for a dozen courses.
All the pain will be transferred to your wallet.
So that's why I've felt a sudden urge to act like a clam. :lol:
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DSilva
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#71
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Cath Scottish- You have been brainwashed by liberal media. Keir Starmer has fought for the rights of criminals his entire life. He supports woke public services and equality and social justice. Which means open borders and punishing white people, promoting "critical race theory" and supporting far left causes like BLM.
I can assure you the Tory Party do not hate the working class be that white or any other race.
The Labour Party brought in the War on Terror, the huge expansion of the state, damaged civil liberties, huge amounts of immigration - some of whom have gone on to commit terrorism and done many other harmful things.
You have been watching too much liberal media. I am warning you. You have been brainwashed. You have been utterly conned and brainwashed by liberal media. You probably watch liberal media every day.

The Labour Party was formed for the working class. Now it is a coalition of immigrants, wasters, criminals, students, single parents and the well to do bien pensant privileged classes. Which have values almost completely at odds with the typical working class person.

Keir cares only about the working class voting for him . Be that white or any other race, as long as they support his agenda.

I am a rebel for supporting Trump and his cronies.

It is not heroic or brave to stand up for "equality and diversity" or liberal garbage when those are the same values taught to you in school and as Louis IX said are the same as virtually every major company on the planet.

This alone doesn't necessarily make your ideas wrong per se but it does mean that you have to acknowledge that your ideas are the dominant ones in this society and your views are the establishment ones.

Liberals like to pretend that the country is still run by racist old white men in dinner jackets but this hasn't been the case for decades.

I challenge you to find me one major bank or corporation that does not support BLM, Gay pride or mass immigration.

Attachment 1031246

You liberal extremists want to claim all white people are racist.
You think you are standing up to the elites. You are just suckers who have been conned by divisive bigoted propaganda.
I'm amazed you think Starmer is left wing. He's firmly on the right. Just look at his 14,000 word essay completely abandoning any semblance of left wing economics.
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by DSilva)
I'm amazed you think Starmer is left wing. He's firmly on the right. Just look at his 14,000 word essay completely abandoning any semblance of left wing economics.
As I've explained ad nauseum- holding right wing economic views does not mean you're right wing if you hold ultra liberal and egalitarian social views which Kier and even many "Tories " and "centrists" hold.

Just as Le Pen being economically to the left of starmer makes her left wing
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DSilva
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#73
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
As I've explained ad nauseum- holding right wing economic views does not mean you're right wing if you hold ultra liberal and egalitarian social views which Kier and even many "Tories " and "centrists" hold.

Just as Le Pen being economically to the left of starmer makes her left wing
Starmer is seeking to turn Labour into an empty centre right neoliberal bucket of nothingness.
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Starship Trooper
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#74
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(Original post by DSilva)
Starmer is seeking to turn Labour into an empty centre right neoliberal bucket of nothingness.
True. That's peak left wing.

Corbyn is to the right of him that's why he supported brexit
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DSilva
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
True. That's peak left wing.

Corbyn is to the right of him that's why he supported brexit
Feels as if you've redefined the term 'left' as a catch all for anything you dislike even when the policies are in no way left wing.

Starmer is an establishment 'liberal'. He's not left wing though. He may do a bit of virtue signalling but you can bet your bottom dollar that were he to become PM he'd send us to war in a split second to show how 'tough' he is.
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Louis IX
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You can be left wing economically and be a social conservative (like me), and you can be right wing economically and be a liberal (like Blair and Starmer). Just because you support neoliberalism doesn't mean you have to support bringing back hanging or whatever.
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Starship Trooper
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#77
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(Original post by DSilva)
Feels as if you've redefined the term 'left' as a catch all for anything you dislike even when the policies are in no way left wing.

Starmer is an establishment 'liberal'. He's not left wing though. He may do a bit of virtue signalling but you can bet your bottom dollar that were he to become PM he'd send us to war in a split second to show how 'tough' he is.
No. The "left" used to be liberals who were more capitalist than the "right" conservatives. So being socially liberal means being left wing regardless of your economic views.

Sure. Left wing wars like Blair and even Bush. Did you know that many neocons including christopher Hitchens and Irving Kristol were all "ex" Trotskyists?

Right wing wars are expansionist wars of Imperialism or/and realism. Left wing wars are about protecting "Human Rights" and "spreading democracy" (although yes, other less savoury motives were also a factor)
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DSilva
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
No. The "left" used to be liberals who were more capitalist than the "right" conservatives. So being socially liberal means being left wing regardless of your economic views.

Sure. Left wing wars like Blair and even Bush. Did you know that many neocons including christopher Hitchens and Irving Kristol were all "ex" Trotskyists?

Right wing wars are expansionist wars of Imperialism or/and realism. Left wing wars are about protecting "Human Rights" and "spreading democracy" (although yes, other less savoury motives were also a factor)
You really think Iraq was about protecting human rights rather than the strategic interests of the UK and USA?
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by DSilva)
You really think Iraq was about protecting human rights rather than the strategic interests of the UK and USA?
Not entirely, although there is a lot of material that says that actually protecting Human Rights is in the strategic interest of the US and the UK. Are you familiar with liberal democratic peace theory?

It basically holds that liberal democracies like ours do not go to war with each other and as such should be strongly promoted in the "national interest" to such an extent that non democracies and illiberal states are seen as defacto existing in a state of aggression.

This is very much against traditional conservative ideas of realpolitik- which is represented by someone like Putin.

Whilst obviously there were dodgy reasons for the war on Terror such as the military industrial complex and Zionist intrigue, it was not a war of colonialism or conquest - Iraq did not become part of the British empire.
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Starship Trooper
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DSilva- also notice how it's referred to as Economic Liberalism when you support things like free trade etc, not economic conservativism.

Economic Conservativism/ nationalism is very skeptical of capitalism and favours things like protectionism and to some extent greater nationalisation.
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