67% of young Britons want a socialist system

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Fullofsurprises
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The survey was 2000 people aged 16-34 on behalf of the IEA.
https://iea.org.uk/media/67-per-cent...inds-new-poll/
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-on-capitalism

Some highlights:

* 67 per cent say they would like to live in a socialist economic system.
* 75 per cent agree with the assertion that climate change is a specifically capitalist problem.
* 78 per cent blame capitalism for Britain’s housing crisis.
* 72 per cent support the (re-)nationalisation of various industries such as energy, water and the railways.
* 72 per cent believe that private sector involvement would put the NHS at risk.
* 75 per cent agree with the statement that ‘socialism is a good idea, but it has failed in the past because it has been badly done’.

Amazingly, this is almost the same in the US now. Recent polls in the US show up some 50% of young people rejecting capitalism.

This kind of result does suggest that a new economic model for society is going to have emerge. Many writers have been trying to envisage how this might work. Many more attempts will be made.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
The survey was 2000 people aged 16-34 on behalf of the IEA.
https://iea.org.uk/media/67-per-cent...inds-new-poll/
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-on-capitalism

Some highlights:

* 67 per cent say they would like to live in a socialist economic system.
* 75 per cent agree with the assertion that climate change is a specifically capitalist problem.
* 78 per cent blame capitalism for Britain’s housing crisis.
* 72 per cent support the (re-)nationalisation of various industries such as energy, water and the railways.
* 72 per cent believe that private sector involvement would put the NHS at risk.
* 75 per cent agree with the statement that ‘socialism is a good idea, but it has failed in the past because it has been badly done’.

Amazingly, this is almost the same in the US now. Recent polls in the US show up some 50% of young people rejecting capitalism.

This kind of result does suggest that a new economic model for society is going to have emerge. Many writers have been trying to envisage how this might work. Many more attempts will be made.
While concerning it’s worth baring in mind that many people who describe themselves as democratic socialists actually support social democracy so unless the poll defined the term it’s still dubious.

The idiocy of the second point is perhaps most interesting. It perhaps belies people wishing to avoid having to acknowledge the faults of themselves and the state.

Personally speaking I would say that planning law (as we saw during the summer) is a larger hindrance but yes, there is a perverse incentive to maintain a lack of supply.

I’d be semi one of those in part so it’s somewhat meaningless. It does not mean I support public ownership of most industry or the wider economy, it simply means I see an easier political path vs proper marketisation. Certainly on tax and spend that does not make me a socialist either.

This is likely because people think of the US, ignoring that most of our peers have private social insurance and better health outcomes.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Rakas21)
While concerning it’s worth baring in mind that many people who describe themselves as democratic socialists actually support social democracy so unless the poll defined the term it’s still dubious.

The idiocy of the second point is perhaps most interesting. It perhaps belies people wishing to avoid having to acknowledge the faults of themselves and the state.

Personally speaking I would say that planning law (as we saw during the summer) is a larger hindrance but yes, there is a perverse incentive to maintain a lack of supply.

I’d be semi one of those in part so it’s somewhat meaningless. It does not mean I support public ownership of most industry or the wider economy, it simply means I see an easier political path vs proper marketisation. Certainly on tax and spend that does not make me a socialist either.

This is likely because people think of the US, ignoring that most of our peers have private social insurance and better health outcomes.
On the climate change point, it seems unarguable, given that apart from about three fairly minor countries, all of the main economies and all of the largest CO2 emitters are running a capitalist economy. I don't take China's ongoing claim to be "Communist" any more seriously than the unelected billionaires who control it do.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
On the climate change point, it seems unarguable, given that apart from about three fairly minor countries, all of the main economies and all of the largest CO2 emitters are running a capitalist economy. I don't take China's ongoing claim to be "Communist" any more seriously than the unelected billionaires who control it do.
Of course, capitalism fuels production to a greater extent than any other system. The job of marketing is to generate additional consumption.


It is however flawed to view it in those terms because there are no shortage of states which choose not to adopt ‘green’ technologies and it is naive to believe that capitalism is the only thing which drives this. Additionally, we emit because capitalism has made the countries rich enough to consume. If Uganda was as wealthy as Germany it would pollute every bit as much even if rabidly socialist because few states view climate as sufficient to pay a price. Nor will these low emitting Ugandan’s decide they don’t want western beauty products or electronics for the climate just because their future government is of a socialist tone. They will import regardless of how sustainably those goods were produced.
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Starship Trooper
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kWdfRRtAs3o
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Quady
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
The survey was 2000 people aged 16-34 on behalf of the IEA.
https://iea.org.uk/media/67-per-cent...inds-new-poll/
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-on-capitalism

Some highlights:

* 67 per cent say they would like to live in a socialist economic system.
* 75 per cent agree with the assertion that climate change is a specifically capitalist problem.
* 78 per cent blame capitalism for Britain’s housing crisis.
* 72 per cent support the (re-)nationalisation of various industries such as energy, water and the railways.
* 72 per cent believe that private sector involvement would put the NHS at risk.
* 75 per cent agree with the statement that ‘socialism is a good idea, but it has failed in the past because it has been badly done’.

Amazingly, this is almost the same in the US now. Recent polls in the US show up some 50% of young people rejecting capitalism.

This kind of result does suggest that a new economic model for society is going to have emerge. Many writers have been trying to envisage how this might work. Many more attempts will be made.
Perhaps the young people could be given Norfolk to do the socialism in and all the non-young people could just carry on
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Quady
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
On the climate change point, it seems unarguable, given that apart from about three fairly minor countries, all of the main economies and all of the largest CO2 emitters are running a capitalist economy. I don't take China's ongoing claim to be "Communist" any more seriously than the unelected billionaires who control it do.
Are you suggesting the USA is a capitalist country?
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Rakas21)
Of course, capitalism fuels production to a greater extent than any other system. The job of marketing is to generate additional consumption.


It is however flawed to view it in those terms because there are no shortage of states which choose not to adopt ‘green’ technologies and it is naive to believe that capitalism is the only thing which drives this. Additionally, we emit because capitalism has made the countries rich enough to consume. If Uganda was as wealthy as Germany it would pollute every bit as much even if rabidly socialist because few states view climate as sufficient to pay a price. Nor will these low emitting Ugandan’s decide they don’t want western beauty products or electronics for the climate just because their future government is of a socialist tone. They will import regardless of how sustainably those goods were produced.
I think most people see it as a global problem, a function of consumerism, poor environmental planning and a result of mass production and mass exploitation of resources.

We probably shouldn't get too bogged down in definitions, few people agree on the precise nature and scope of 'capitalism' and 'socialism', but it's interesting that clear majorities of us favour basic systemic change and don't accept the previously prevailing ideology that capitalism could resolve everything.
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Napp
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Not unreasonable given from their/our point of view capitalism has singularly failed in its promises to improve anyones lives but those born before us. I dont see how living in a socialist state (although they could elucidate on what that means given the variation in them) would help given most end up being dumpster fires.
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!Capercaillie
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While I don't believe socialism is the answer, it is entirely understandable that younger people are angry.

We are set to be poorer than our parents, face greater job insecurity, face housing insecurity, deal the shame of living in the most obese country in Europe (who could guess that an ideology that advocated excess consumption would turn us into a nation of porkies?), and face a Conservative government that believes in high taxes but offers little in return.
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londonmyst
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I'm only surprised that it is below 90% of under 35s.
Can only suppose the reason is because there were no participants from northern ireland and a few young Thatcherites.
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Theloniouss
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A lot of those "highlights" are actually "poorly asked questions that got equally poor answers". The second one is certainly concerning though because it seems like an objectively untrue opinion to hold, at least by my interpretation.
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HansLuben
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Clearly the youth need socialism to teach them why socialism is bad.
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TCA2b
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(Original post by HansLuben)
Clearly the youth need socialism to teach them why socialism is bad.
Transitioning to adulthood usually cures most people of the socialism delusion. Of course there's some unfortunate exceptions.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Theloniouss)
A lot of those "highlights" are actually "poorly asked questions that got equally poor answers". The second one is certainly concerning though because it seems like an objectively untrue opinion to hold, at least by my interpretation.
It's an accurate observation. 95% of the world is run on capitalism and the rest some minor adjusted form of capitalism. The former 'socialist' states (eg, state capitalist) collapsed too long ago now to have much relevance.
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DSilva
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It should be a wake up call to capitalism's advocates.

When young people are finding it impossible to buy a house, and seeing their wages stall, while being saddled with debt, why exactly would they support capitalism?

It's also telling that when people support Brexit/ Trump/ some other right wing position, the media and establishment keep telling us that we need to "understand" their concerns. But when people support left wing positions, their concerns don't seem to matter.
Last edited by DSilva; 3 weeks ago
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by DSilva)
It's also telling that when people support Brexit/ Trump/ some other right wing position, the media and establishment keep telling us that we need to "understand" their concerns. But when people support left wing positions, their concerns don't seem to matter.
PRSOM. Same applies to the "working class". Being "working class" only matters if you have socially conservative beliefs and / or work(ed) in a traditional industry like manufacturing. The "working class" who are young and liberal don't matter.
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Saracen's Fez
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I mean this is quite simply a catastrophic failure of capitalism and the regulation of capitalism to ensure young people get a fair share, or at least can feel like they can realistically aspire to the relative wealth enjoyed by older generations.

That said, one person's definition of socialism can be wildly different from the next person's, and I'd hazard a guess that a lot of people's 'socialism' is at best social democracy or some form of fairer, regulated capitalism.

As for climate change being a specifically capitalist problem (That couldn't and wouldn't have happened under another economic system?! Don't be silly!), that is perhaps the best illustration of the 'capitalism = things I don't like' analysis.
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Louis IX
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If you have a problem with this, then the solution is to get capitalism to work for young people instead of ignoring what we think.
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Starship Trooper
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So thinking about this more seriously...

1- we have a mixed economy and this isn't going to change. They're not talking about getting rid of private property and nationalising the BoE and scrapping the stock exchange. Even Corbyn didn't dare raise taxes.

2- obviously framing is an issue. Additionally young people might love socialism when they're students but when they started getting taxed for the first time their enthusiasm might change.

3- Also on many of these issues I would argue that they want multiple things which clash. Which is namely increasing libertarianism and giving more power to s centralised state, more globalisation but also more accountability and of course being pro immigration whilst wanting more houses, lower class sizes , whilst keeping our green spaces etc

That said I think they're right to be angry with the status quo. There are serious problems with Society which urgently need to be addedd . The problem is they're doubling down on all the problems.

The West is like a house that's on fire. Centrists/ Liberals are like "oh things are fine. We like our house being on fire" whilst the left are like "the house is on fire, the only way we can put it out is by pouring petrol on it".
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