NHS Trust limits access to chemotherapy for cancer patients

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Megacent
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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/h...-b1925484.html

Utter disgrace.

People could die if they are denied treatment ffs! Why the hell would the NHS do this, do they just not care if people die, as long as they don't die from covid?
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HansLuben
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The joys of socialist medicine...
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username4986690
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The problem is staff shortages as the article says.

Stop trying to make everything about COVID.
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Megacent
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(Original post by HansLuben)
The joys of socialist medicine...
All illnesses are equal, but some are more equal than others. If it's not covid, it seems the NHS don't give a damn.

A national health service should treat everything. They shouldn't cancel routine operations to focus on one specific virus, and they shouldn't limit access to chemotherapy for cancer patients. Why can't they just do their job ffs!
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Napp
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(Original post by HansLuben)
The joys of socialist medicine...
Wat on earth are you blathering about 'socialist medicine' for?
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hotpud
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(Original post by Megacent)
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/h...-b1925484.html

Utter disgrace.

People could die if they are denied treatment ffs! Why the hell would the NHS do this, do they just not care if people die, as long as they don't die from covid?
It is easy to criticise. Many an armchair commentator said "It's an utter disgrace." The question is, what are you doing about it and how could this problem be solved?

I wonder if this is in part due to Brexit which is clearly seeing many European's return to their country of origin. Still, I guess we wanted that right?
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harrysbar
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(Original post by Megacent)
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/h...-b1925484.html

Utter disgrace.

People could die if they are denied treatment ffs! Why the hell would the NHS do this, do they just not care if people die, as long as they don't die from covid?
I mean, you could have helped the pressure on the NHS in one tiny way by getting vaccinated but you chose not to and instead are constantly spending your energy on trying to persuade other people not to either. Yet now you are appalled that there are real consequences to the NHS being at almost full capacity dealing with Covid patients in hospital, three quarters of the under 50s hospitalised by it being unvaccinated (and another 14% with only one dose).

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b1914238.html
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Megacent
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(Original post by harrysbar)
I mean, you could have helped the pressure on the NHS in one tiny way by getting vaccinated but you chose not to and instead are constantly spending your energy on trying to persuade other people not to either. Yet now you are appalled that there are real consequences to the NHS being at almost full capacity dealing with Covid patients in hospital, three quarters of the under 50s hospitalised by it being unvaccinated (and another 14% with only one dose).

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b1914238.html
That's not true. I'm not trying to tell others what they should do, I consider vaccination a personal choice that should be entirely up to the individual.

Me getting vaccinated wouldn't "ease pressure" on the NHS, as I'm not really at risk from needing hospital treatment. Statistically covid poses such a low risk to me that I'm fine taking my chances with it. And if the vaccine is so good, then anybody who has it will be protected if I infect them. This is a virus that, like any other virus, we will all get at some point. People really need to start accepting reality, you can't just "avoid" this virus forever, as it will be going around forever like flu, or the cold. The vulnerable are vaccinated, everyone who wants a jab has now had a chance to get one. Keep it available for free (some people who refuse now will change their minds later, I will probably get it once we have long term data available on its safety) and let's get on with life
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harrysbar
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(Original post by Megacent)
That's not true. I'm not trying to tell others what they should do, I consider vaccination a personal choice that should be entirely up to the individual.

Me getting vaccinated wouldn't "ease pressure" on the NHS, as I'm not really at risk from needing hospital treatment. Statistically covid poses such a low risk to me that I'm fine taking my chances with it. And if the vaccine is so good, then anybody who has it will be protected if I infect them. This is a virus that, like any other virus, we will all get at some point. People really need to start accepting reality, you can't just "avoid" this virus forever, as it will be going around forever like flu, or the cold. The vulnerable are vaccinated, everyone who wants a jab has now had a chance to get one. Keep it available for free (some people who refuse now will change their minds later, I will probably get it once we have long term data available on its safety) and let's get on with life
You're constantly on TSR pushing the view that young people don't need to get vaccinated because they are low risk. I agree that as individuals they are low risk - yet they still could end up using NHS resources if they get symptoms of covid and most people in hospital with covid now are in groups that are considered low risk, the under 50s. The unvaccinated majority in that group were also presumably fine with taking their chances with it, but that didn't stop them needing the help of the NHS when they got seriously sick.

I agree with you that we need to accept covid as a fact of life for the foreseeable future as none of us can avoid it forever with even the vaccinated only gaining 90% protection at best, but that is a separate point to your thread title.
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Megacent
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(Original post by harrysbar)
You're constantly on TSR pushing the view that young people don't need to get vaccinated because they are low risk. I agree that as individuals they are low risk - yet they still could end up using NHS resources if they get symptoms of covid and most people in hospital with covid now are in groups that are considered low risk, the under 50s. The unvaccinated majority in that group were also presumably fine with taking their chances with it, but that didn't stop them needing the help of the NHS when they got seriously sick.

I agree with you that we need to accept covid as a fact of life for the foreseeable future as none of us can avoid it forever with even the vaccinated only gaining 90% protection at best, but that is a separate point to your thread title.
Am I not allowed an opinion? I personally don't see the need to get vaccinated if you are under 50, but each to their own. If people want to get the jab that's their right and I'm not trying to dictate to them either way.

As for NHS resources. At the start of this pandemic we were told that restrictions would only be in place for 3 weeks to flatten the curve, to give the NHS time to prepare to handle the surge in patients. If they still haven't prepared, and still don't have the resources, that's their problem. I've done my part, at great cost to my own mental health. I no longer have any faith in the medical or scientific community. They told me that this would only be for a few weeks, they told me we'd have 4000 deaths a day, they told me we wouldn't have a second lockdown, or a third. They told me they were completely overwhelmed but they've still got time to choreograph dance routines in the wards. I'm just sick of feeling lied to, and their assurances about the vaccine being safe mean nothing to me now. I'm fairly sure it actually is safe, but I'm not going to risk it until there is more data available on its safety.
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harrysbar
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(Original post by Megacent)
As for NHS resources. At the start of this pandemic we were told that restrictions would only be in place for 3 weeks to flatten the curve, to give the NHS time to prepare to handle the surge in patients. If they still haven't prepared, and still don't have the resources, that's their problem. I've done my part, at great cost to my own mental health. I no longer have any faith in the medical or scientific community. They told me that this would only be for a few weeks, they told me we'd have 4000 deaths a day, they told me we wouldn't have a second lockdown, or a third. They told me they were completely overwhelmed but they've still got time to choreograph dance routines in the wards. I'm just sick of feeling lied to, and their assurances about the vaccine being safe mean nothing to me now. I'm fairly sure it actually is safe, but I'm not going to risk it until there is more data available on its safety.
You're like a broken record repeating this same line about "3 weeks to flatten the curve" day after day, when so many people have explained to you that it is something you have to let go. That we never reached 4,000 deaths a day - quite possibly due to the vaccines - is something to celebrate, not something to blame your trust issues on.

Your mental health does indeed appear to have been affected by the covid restrictions so I urge you to get some counselling - or at least I would if I thought you would trust a counsellor but somehow I doubt you would. It's a shame that you are so sceptical about the medical and scientific community. In my opinion (yes we are all allowed one) we should be thankful to them for their efforts to help us through this pandemic, not judging them harshly for everything they got wrong.
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Megacent
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(Original post by harrysbar)
You're like a broken record repeating this same line about "3 weeks to flatten the curve" day after day, when so many people have explained to you that it is something you have to let go. That we never reached 4,000 deaths a day - quite possibly due to the vaccines - is something to celebrate, not something to blame your trust issues on.

Your mental health does indeed appear to have been affected by the covid restrictions so I urge you to get some counselling - or at least I would if I thought you would trust a counsellor but somehow I doubt you would. It's a shame that you are so sceptical about the medical and scientific community. In my opinion (yes we are all allowed one) we should be thankful to them for their efforts to help us through this pandemic, not judging them harshly for everything they got wrong.
I have had counselling in the past for anxiety and depression which helped a bit, and I might need to look into that again after all of this. I never expected to have to endure anything like this. There's been times throughout the lockdowns that I've felt I wouldn't make it, and that's me in a relatively comfortable financial position with a strong support network of friends. So goodness knows how awful it must be for people without those. And I hate how vicious society seems to have become now, and it's a problem on both sides. I've personally got abuse for not wearing a mask but I've also seen people abuse others for wearing one. That isn't acceptable either, we should be more respectful of peoples choices.

I have a tendency to go on about stuff yes, but stuff like 3 weeks to flatten the curve and 4000 deaths a day has significantly damaged my trust in the scientific community, to the point where I don't feel I can trust much of what they say, and I'm not willing to get the vaccine yet. I will probably get it eventually, once there is more data available, but I will get it on my own terms, when I am ready, and I will not be coerced into it.
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username4986690
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(Original post by Megacent)
I have had counselling in the past for anxiety and depression which helped a bit, and I might need to look into that again after all of this. I never expected to have to endure anything like this. There's been times throughout the lockdowns that I've felt I wouldn't make it, and that's me in a relatively comfortable financial position with a strong support network of friends. So goodness knows how awful it must be for people without those. And I hate how vicious society seems to have become now, and it's a problem on both sides. I've personally got abuse for not wearing a mask but I've also seen people abuse others for wearing one. That isn't acceptable either, we should be more respectful of peoples choices.

I have a tendency to go on about stuff yes, but stuff like 3 weeks to flatten the curve and 4000 deaths a day has significantly damaged my trust in the scientific community, to the point where I don't feel I can trust much of what they say, and I'm not willing to get the vaccine yet. I will probably get it eventually, once there is more data available, but I will get it on my own terms, when I am ready, and I will not be coerced into it.
Do you actually read the data?
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Megacent
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
Do you actually read the data?
The 4000 deaths a day was debunked as "Noddy Land Figures"

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/130926...s-4000-deaths/

If it had been a genuine prediction of what the deaths would be if we didn't lock down then fair enough. But clearly it was just fearmongering.
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Megacent
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By the way harrysbar, I am thankful to the individual workers in the NHS for their work. But I still think the dancing videos were completely inappropriate, and to me it felt like they were laughing in our face. Although completely happy to accept I'm in the minority there.
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(Original post by Megacent)
The 4000 deaths a day was debunked as "Noddy Land Figures"

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/130926...s-4000-deaths/

If it had been a genuine prediction of what the deaths would be if we didn't lock down then fair enough. But clearly it was just fearmongering.
I didn't ask about that nor do I care.

I asked about the new data that you want about vaccines. Do you actually read the scientific papers being produced nearly everyday.
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(Original post by Megacent)
By the way harrysbar, I am thankful to the individual workers in the NHS for their work. But I still think the dancing videos were completely inappropriate, and to me it felt like they were laughing in our face. Although completely happy to accept I'm in the minority there.
No you don't, you made this thread to insult individual staff who can't treat cancer patients due to staff shortages.

You have made incredibly disparaging remarks about the efforts of front line staff.
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Megacent
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
I asked about the new data that you want about vaccines. Do you actually read the scientific papers being produced nearly everyday.
I accept the data that shows they are very safe in the short term. I want to see data showing they are safe long term. To get that I need to wait. If I got the jab and suffered permanent damage from it, would Pfizer or Moderna pay for my care? Doesn't look like it, because apparently you can't take any action against them. Don't understand why they've done that if it's safe, maybe just being super cautious? But then, who is going to provide for me if I suffer side effects and can't work because of the jab? I've got to think about that, I'm really not comfortable taking that chance until there is long term data available. Most vaccines go through a testing period of years.

To be clear, I'm pretty certain they are safe. I would happily wager quite a lot of money on that. I see no reason or motive for them to lie about it being safe. But I'm just not quite at the stage I'm willing to risk my own body with it. I will likely get it in the future, once there is long term data available showing its safe.
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(Original post by Megacent)
I accept the data that shows they are very safe in the short term. I want to see data showing they are safe long term. To get that I need to wait. If I got the jab and suffered permanent damage from it, would Pfizer or Moderna pay for my care? Doesn't look like it, because apparently you can't take any action against them. Don't understand why they've done that if it's safe, maybe just being super cautious? But then, who is going to provide for me if I suffer side effects and can't work because of the jab? I've got to think about that, I'm really not comfortable taking that chance until there is long term data available. Most vaccines go through a testing period of years.
So what data have you actually read?
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Megacent
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
You have made incredibly disparaging remarks about the efforts of front line staff.
It feels like your not allowed to criticize the NHS these days, well I'm sorry but I think they do deserve to be criticized for their actions. They were wrong to cancel routine ops and focus only on covid. They talk about saving lives, but think of this. Some people will have cancer that could have been detected earlier if their routine screening hadn't been cancelled. What if some of those people die? What if it was your mum? Would you still think the people who cancelled her screening were heroes?

I am thankful for the work nurses do. I just feel the dancing videos were a disgrace, and sent completely the wrong message. I was struggling to cope with lockdown and it felt like they were laughing in my face.
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