U.K. to offer emergency visas to HGV drivers.

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imlikeahermit
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Brexit in 2016: these foreigners are coming over stealing our jobs. We don’t need them. Let’s make Britain british again.

2021: come back, we need you!

No one saw this coming. Oh wait…

Sunlit uplands indeed.
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username4986690
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Can't we get the military to do it? There must be HGV drivers in there and we aren't fighting any wars so it will give them something to do.
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imlikeahermit
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
Can't we get the military to do it? There must be HGV drivers in there and we aren't fighting any wars so it will give them something to do.
I agree, and I think the only reason that it hasn’t been done is because the government are insisting downplaying the issue. Bringing the military in to drive would be a big step into admitting fault.
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DSilva
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Brexit in 2016: these foreigners are coming over stealing our jobs. We don’t need them. Let’s make Britain british again.

2021: come back, we need you!

No one saw this coming. Oh wait…

Sunlit uplands indeed.
Something we are in full agreement on!
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ThomH97
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This is somewhere between a long-standing issue (not just restricted to the transport industry) of wanting to poach staff from competitors instead of training your own and rewarding loyalty, and the abruptness of departures due to Covid and Brexit.

We've got well over a million unemployed, and probably another million still on furlough who could work in a 'live' job if not still waiting on their dormant one. And we've only got a shortage of 100,000 HGV drivers. If 5% of those people trained as drivers, we'd be sorted. But the problem is training so many in such a short time.

I would like to see some sort of incentive from the government that if a company wants these visas, they have to also train new drivers. Any company refusing to train new drivers can suffer the shortage.
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username4986690
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(Original post by ThomH97)
This is somewhere between a long-standing issue (not just restricted to the transport industry) of wanting to poach staff from competitors instead of training your own and rewarding loyalty, and the abruptness of departures due to Covid and Brexit.

We've got well over a million unemployed, and probably another million still on furlough who could work in a 'live' job if not still waiting on their dormant one. And we've only got a shortage of 100,000 HGV drivers. If 5% of those people trained as drivers, we'd be sorted. But the problem is training so many in such a short time.

I would like to see some sort of incentive from the government that if a company wants these visas, they have to also train new drivers. Any company refusing to train new drivers can suffer the shortage.
What jobs are still furloughed?
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ThomH97
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
What jobs are still furloughed?
Dunno, I've not seen a breakdown. Obviously your stereotypical little old lady librarian isn't going to be able to secure and hitch up a trailer, but my point is there are easily enough people looking for work (or will be but are currently incentivised not to) that we can fill the shortage given time and targeted training.
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imlikeahermit
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(Original post by ThomH97)
Dunno, I've not seen a breakdown. Obviously your stereotypical little old lady librarian isn't going to be able to secure and hitch up a trailer, but my point is there are easily enough people looking for work (or will be but are currently incentivised not to) that we can fill the shortage given time and targeted training.
But there is a difference between targeted training and safety. The two conflict. If the government put things in place to speed up training it will inevitably lead to more accidents. Ironically, immigration has caused this issue, but now, it’s the only cure.
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hotpud
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(Original post by ThomH97)
This is somewhere between a long-standing issue (not just restricted to the transport industry) of wanting to poach staff from competitors instead of training your own and rewarding loyalty, and the abruptness of departures due to Covid and Brexit.
The sceptic in me can't help but think that saying it is a long standing problem is a convenient excuse for what really isn't a long standing problem. I don't seem to remember people queuing up to get petrol or shop shelves being empty 1, 2 or three+ years ago. Surely a long running problem doesn't suddenly happen?
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Starship Trooper
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Damn if only us, Germany, USA, Poland and France hadn't left the EU we wouldn't be having these sorts of problems! :rolleyes:

Still it's not as bad as the pound collapsing any day now.
Last edited by Starship Trooper; 3 weeks ago
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Starship Trooper
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Remain in 2016- Our entire economy will collapse and it will start works war 3!

Remain in 2021- Well we might have had more lorry drivers if we stayed in....

No one saw this coming. Oh wait...

Project fear Indeed.
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ThomH97
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
But there is a difference between targeted training and safety. The two conflict. If the government put things in place to speed up training it will inevitably lead to more accidents. Ironically, immigration has caused this issue, but now, it’s the only cure.
I'm not saying they should speed up training. I would like the government to force companies to create training opportunities (by all accounts there are plenty of ageing drivers who don't want to do the actual driving and delivering anymore) if they want to benefit from this emergency visa scheme. I agree, qualified immigrant workers are necessary to fill the gap in the short term, and ideally the reliance on them would have been rolled back gradually as we approached Brexit. While I'm not convinced the industry would have done its bit had Covid not hampered training and also caused a ton of migrant workers to leave all at once, that certainly has compounded the issue.
(Original post by hotpud)
The sceptic in me can't help but think that saying it is a long standing problem is a convenient excuse for what really isn't a long standing problem. I don't seem to remember people queuing up to get petrol or shop shelves being empty 1, 2 or three+ years ago. Surely a long running problem doesn't suddenly happen?
It is a long standing problem that employers don't want to employ young, unskilled Brits. The government has had to step in to incentivise apprenticeships, and I'm sure you've seen the headlines in papers that employers are complaining about schoolkids not having any applicable skills. It's just easier to poach a trained worker (and who's used to low pay from a poorer country) than to train someone up and inspire loyalty.
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londonmyst
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Such a lamentable lack of basic brexit planning for no deal that should have been done during the eras of David Cameron and Theresa May. :banghead:

Not just in relation to lorry drivers.
Also for fruit pickers to work on small farms for a few weeks, agricultural workers, factory staff, care workers, bakers, cafe and hotel staff.
There are so many jobless and under-employed uk citizens aged 16-45 who are very keen to increase their income by obtaining some seasonal work or access to a short term work contract of between 1-18 months that includes the opportunities to gain some employment history & earn while training.
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by londonmyst)
Not just in relation to lorry drivers.
Also for fruit pickers to work on small farms for a few weeks, agricultural workers, factory staff, care workers, bakers, cafe and hotel staff.
There are so many jobless and under-employed uk citizens aged 16-45 who are very keen to increase their income by obtaining some seasonal work or access to a short term work contract of between 1-18 months that includes the opportunities to gain some employment history & earn while training.
Soon these companies might have to do something really terrible like raise wages or something...
Last edited by Starship Trooper; 3 weeks ago
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londonmyst
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Soon these companies might have to do something really terrible like raise wages or something...
I hope not. :afraid:

It seems that Waitrose are paying their drivers £53,780.
I'm hearing that the haulage firms are offering lorry drivers salaries in the region of £60k a year.
Quite a few council refuse lorry drivers from Yorkshire, Devon and Somerset are quiting to drive for haulage companies.
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by londonmyst)
I hope not. :afraid:

It seems that Waitrose are paying their drivers £53,780.
I'm hearing that the haulage firms are offering lorry drivers salaries in the region of £60k a year.
Quite a few council refuse lorry drivers from Yorkshire, Devon and Somerset are quiting to drive for haulage companies.
Employing cheap foreign workers would be one thing if we had an ultra libertarian society and loads of space like the early USA did, it's quite another when you have a huge welfare state you have to pay for and there's barely no space (that people want to live on). Unless of course you're a huge company like Amazon that doesn't bother paying much tax anyway.

I'd rather pay Bob down the street 50k then invite some [censored] from [censored] who'll do it for half the price but will bring their family over here and received benefits and privileges etc that should be going to UK citizens. Not to mention [censored] , cultural differences etc
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DSilva
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
I agree, and I think the only reason that it hasn’t been done is because the government are insisting downplaying the issue. Bringing the military in to drive would be a big step into admitting fault.
No matter what happens and how many promises are broken, Brexit's biggest advocates will never admit they were wrong. They'll blame something else or say the problem was that we didn't Brexit earlier.
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Joinedup
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(Original post by londonmyst)
I hope not. :afraid:

It seems that Waitrose are paying their drivers £53,780.
I'm hearing that the haulage firms are offering lorry drivers salaries in the region of £60k a year.
Quite a few council refuse lorry drivers from Yorkshire, Devon and Somerset are quiting to drive for haulage companies.
Well the HGV drivers coming into my work say these high salaries being reported are total B/S. Maybe that's what they're paying to the agency that employs the drivers but the agencies are taking a hefty slice off that.

tbh if that's what HGV drivers actually got paid it's hard to understand how the present problem ever arose.

so largely what this guy says


and has been saying since June
https://youtu.be/x8k8k1Mia2I

I think the much more plausible explanation is that trucking companies have got addicted to cheap labour over the last couple of decades and are unwilling to go cold-turkey.
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imlikeahermit
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(Original post by Joinedup)
Well the HGV drivers coming into my work say these high salaries being reported are total B/S. Maybe that's what they're paying to the agency that employs the drivers but the agencies are taking a hefty slice off that.

tbh if that's what HGV drivers actually got paid it's hard to understand how the present problem ever arose.

so largely what this guy says


and has been saying since June
https://youtu.be/x8k8k1Mia2I

I think the much more plausible explanation is that trucking companies have got addicted to cheap labour over the last couple of decades and are unwilling to go cold-turkey.
Mass uncontrolled immigration caused this issue, but it’s now the only solution to this issue. We’ve created a monster of a society where people literally do not want to work.

That, and the working conditions of this job are hideous. That’s why I think it’s a bit much for the government to just expect these workers to come flooding back. Why would then come back to a country which firstly offers poor pay for their services, but also, offers horrible working conditions in comparison with other European countries; and lastly, return to a country which unceremoniously told them it didn’t need their Labour anymore.
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hotpud
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(Original post by ThomH97)
I'm not saying they should speed up training. I would like the government to force companies to create training opportunities
Ouch? You mean like the government forces companies to employ staff and pay over the going rate in wages? No thank you.

What has happened here is companies have relied on being able to recruit drivers from the whole of Europe, then all of a sudden some decided we don't want foreigners driving British trucks and surprise surprise, there aren't enough truck drivers because all the Europeans have gone home. This isn't really the making of the government although I suppose you can blame Boris for backing the winning side (he used to be staunchly pro European). I blame all the little Islanders who voted Brexit. They have made our bed. We must all now lie in it. And this is just the start. Christmas is going to be a disaster!
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