U.K. to offer emergency visas to HGV drivers.

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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by Talkative Toad)
By denying the fact that Brexit would lead to shortages and that us "remoaners" were doing "project fear". We were being told that this was project fear by pro-brexiteers, this ain't project fear (the fact that we warned brexiteers about there would most like be shortages due to Brexit) shortages mate, this is project reality as I saw a comment on YouTube say. In short you were wrong about the idea that brexit would no lead to shortages and that brits would easily be able to fill up the jobs of those EU immagrants. We have shortages, brits are not applying en masse for the jobs that EU and EEA immigrants were doing.
A- these problems are occurring inside the EU as well- and would have happened if we had stayed in the EU.

B- even if somehow this was unique and was a direct result of Brexit then it is still a billion miles away from this economic apocalypse George Osborne told us would happen. In fact it's been s positive bargain..
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Talkative Toad
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
A- these problems are occurring inside the EU as well- and would have happened if we had stayed in the EU.

B- even if somehow this was unique and was a direct result of Brexit then it is still a billion miles away from this economic apocalypse George Osborne told us would happen. In fact it's been s positive bargain..
Name me an EU country whose shortages are just as bad as the UK or worst (should be easy to do). Obviously COVID, low wages and panic buying have a role to play too but the idea that there would have been no shortages post-Brexit and that brits would easily be able to fill EU immagrants' jobs is just false, there are shortages (not as many in NI as they are still in the EU single market). Burton is asking how is he wrong, this is how he is wrong, the idea that Brexit wouldn't have caused any shortages is fundamentally wrong we warned you, you dismissed us as project fear (brexiteers) when in reality we we're trying to tell the truth, I.e that there would be shortages as a result of Brexit. Don't see why that's hard to understand lol and as londonmyst says poor planning too.
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by Talkative Toad)
Name me an EU country whose shortages are just as bad as the UK or worst (should be easy to do).
Poland. There you are.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...l-400-000.html
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TCA2b
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
A- these problems are occurring inside the EU as well- and would have happened if we had stayed in the EU.

B- even if somehow this was unique and was a direct result of Brexit then it is still a billion miles away from this economic apocalypse George Osborne told us would happen. In fact it's been s positive bargain..
Took a global "pandemic response", involving massive supply chain freezes (plus ill-advised and ill-timed legislation adversely impacting off-payroll workers in the private sector, affecting many HGV drivers), to finally make their mutterings, that they're trying to pin on Brexit, even remotely relevant. Also don't know why employers are taken at face-value on this - they want cheap migrant labour and many have zero desire to upskill the British workforce. Evidently that could be said of the government, too. Constantly plugging the labour supply in a stop-gap manner, because the welfare and educational system combined fail to address longer term shortages and some people make money off this, is foolish.
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Talkative Toad
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Poland. There you are.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...l-400-000.html
Fair enough then but Brexit still has a role to play as to why have shortages (I'm not going to say that it's purely Brexit because that is also false, I believe that it's: Brexit, lack of planning as another user has said, poor wages, crap government, COVID etc not going to put all of the blame on Brexit but Brexit has caused shortages (it's not the sole reason as you rightfully say but it's one of them even that article says that). Would be silly to say that the shortages are purely due to Brexit, likewise would be silly to suggest that Brexit played no partial roll in the shortages.

(Original post by TCA2b)
Took a global "pandemic response", involving massive supply chain freezes (plus ill-advised and ill-timed legislation adversely impacting off-payroll workers in the private sector, affecting many HGV drivers), to finally make their mutterings, that they're trying to pin on Brexit, even remotely relevant. Also don't know why employers are taken at face-value on this - they want cheap migrant labour and many have zero desire to upskill the British workforce. Evidently that could be said of the government, too. Constantly plugging the labour supply in a stop-gap manner, because the welfare and educational system combined fail to address longer term shortages and some people make money off this, is foolish.
Never said that these factors are also not the reason as to why we have shortages, these are also reasons as to why we have shortages, Brexit has lead to shortages as well as government incompetency and low wages. I'm saying that the idea that the UK would suffer from no shortages as a result of leaving the EU is false, We could have planned but we didn't. HGV drivers working conditions are terrible and I would never want to be an HGV driver so I don't blame brits for not wanting to do those jobs also agree with the idea that the educational system is a failure.
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Talkative Toad
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(Original post by TCA2b)
Took a global "pandemic response", involving massive supply chain freezes (plus ill-advised and ill-timed legislation adversely impacting off-payroll workers in the private sector, affecting many HGV drivers), to finally make their mutterings, that they're trying to pin on Brexit, even remotely relevant. Also don't know why employers are taken at face-value on this - they want cheap migrant labour and many have zero desire to upskill the British workforce. Evidently that could be said of the government, too. Constantly plugging the labour supply in a stop-gap manner, because the welfare and educational system combined fail to address longer term shortages and some people make money off this, is foolish.
So tag and don't put words in my mouth, never said that Brexit is the sole reason for the shortages, simply saying that the idea that Brexit wouldn't have lead to any shortages is false. Burton asked how Brexiteers were wrong, this is how they are wrong, simple as that and can also agree with the idea that the welfare system is bad. Don't care if you support Brexit or not but own up to the fact that Brexit was at least a partial reason (not the sole reason) as to why we have shortages. Some remainers want to put the entire blame on Brexit, I personally will not.
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Starship Trooper
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Oh would you look at that...

https://inews.co.uk/news/fuel-shorta...ineimg' />
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Burton Bridge
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#48
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#48
(Original post by Talkative Toad)
By denying the fact that Brexit would lead to shortages and that us "remoaners" were doing "project fear". We were being told that this was project fear by pro-brexiteers, this ain't project fear (the fact that we warned brexiteers about there would most like be shortages due to Brexit) shortages mate, this is project reality as I saw a comment on YouTube say. In short you were wrong about the idea that brexit would no lead to shortages and that brits would easily be able to fill up the jobs of those EU immagrants. We have shortages, brits are not applying en masse for thel jobs that EU and EEA immigrants were doing.
Then I read

(Original post by Talkative Toad)
So tag and don't put words in my mouth, never said that Brexit is the sole reason for the shortages, simply saying that the idea that Brexit wouldn't have lead to any shortages is false. Burton asked how Brexiteers were wrong, this is how they are wrong, simple as that and can also agree with the idea that the welfare system is bad. Don't care if you support Brexit or not but own up to the fact that Brexit was at least a partial reason (not the sole reason) as to why we have shortages. Some remainers want to put the entire blame on Brexit, I personally will not.
This appears to be back peddling as information you were not aware of has been presented. You are now trying to differentiate yourself from the opinions of "remainers" as a group while lumping me in with the opinions of "brexiteers" as a group!

So when I say project fear was proved incorrect, I can provide direct examples of this but if seems you can't regarding HGV driver shortage. The irony of you looking for a simple solution to blame for a complex problem is not going undetected

Like it or not your argument is patchy and appears a little desperate, which is like the Remain campaign full stop - which in turn is why you lost.

So again why am I wrong? How is the shorage of HGV Drivers brexits fault and not the fault of the policy of our sovereign government?
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 1 week ago
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Talkative Toad
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#49
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Then I read


This appears to be back peddling as information you were not aware of has been presented. You are now trying to differentiate yourself from the opinions of "remainers" as a group while lumping me in with the opinions of "brexiteers" as a group!

So when I say project fear was proved incorrect, I can provide direct examples of this but if seems you can't regarding HGV driver shortage. The irony of you looking for a simple solution to blame for a complex problem is not going undetected

Like it or not your argument is patchy and appears a little desperate, which is like the Remain campaign full stop - which in turn is why you lost.

So again why am I wrong? How is the shorage of HGV Drivers brexits fault and not the fault of the policy of our sovereign government?
It's the fault of both. Brexit has lead to EU drivers leaving the country, The government as londonmyst said planned poorly. If you can't understand the simple fact that Brexit was one (not the only reason) for the Shortages then that's on you.

Clearly explained how you are wrong can highlight in bold if you want. Saying that the shortages have nothing to do with Brexit is where you're wrong, likewise saying that Brexit is the only reason for the shortages (i.e completely ignoring COVID, low wages etc) is equally as stupid. Brexit along with the other reasons you Brexiteers are pointing out have lead to shortages. Can plug your ears all you want and put the full blame on the UK government's response (I hate them to by the way, worst government ever probably, only 1 figure who I can respect) but the reality is that Brexit has a role to play too (more boarder checks, EU citizens leaving their jobs etc) why do you think that NI hasn't been facing as much shortages despite also being the UK? because they're still in the EU single market...

Well can't blame people for believing lies as this government is so good at lying to the public (I don't hate the Tories I hate this current parliament and am sick of them all).
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Talkative Toad
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#50
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(Original post by ThomH97)
This is somewhere between a long-standing issue (not just restricted to the transport industry) of wanting to poach staff from competitors instead of training your own and rewarding loyalty, and the abruptness of departures due to Covid and Brexit.

We've got well over a million unemployed, and probably another million still on furlough who could work in a 'live' job if not still waiting on their dormant one. And we've only got a shortage of 100,000 HGV drivers. If 5% of those people trained as drivers, we'd be sorted. But the problem is training so many in such a short time.

I would like to see some sort of incentive from the government that if a company wants these visas, they have to also train new drivers. Any company refusing to train new drivers can suffer the shortage.
Yeah I agree with this.
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Talkative Toad
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#51
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Then I read


This appears to be back peddling as information you were not aware of has been presented. You are now trying to differentiate yourself from the opinions of "remainers" as a group while lumping me in with the opinions of "brexiteers" as a group!

So when I say project fear was proved incorrect, I can provide direct examples of this but if seems you can't regarding HGV driver shortage. The irony of you looking for a simple solution to blame for a complex problem is not going undetected

Like it or not your argument is patchy and appears a little desperate, which is like the Remain campaign full stop - which in turn is why you lost.

So again why am I wrong? How is the shorage of HGV Drivers brexits fault and not the fault of the policy of our sovereign government?
I'm not looking for a simple solution? It's called looking at reality, British people are not applying to the jobs EU immigrants had en masse as imlikeahermit is saying because the working conditions are crap, wages are too low maybe a touch of laziness too but not quite sure that I agree with that last reason, hence the Government is trying to do temporary EU visas. The government can't admit that they've failed when I comes to everything, they are failures but just don't want to admit it.
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Talkative Toad
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(Original post by hotpud)
Ouch? You mean like the government forces companies to employ staff and pay over the going rate in wages? No thank you.

What has happened here is companies have relied on being able to recruit drivers from the whole of Europe, then all of a sudden some decided we don't want foreigners driving British trucks and surprise surprise, there aren't enough truck drivers because all the Europeans have gone home. This isn't really the making of the government although I suppose you can blame Boris for backing the winning side (he used to be staunchly pro European). I blame all the little Islanders who voted Brexit. They have made our bed. We must all now lie in it. And this is just the start. Christmas is going to be a disaster!
Am I the only one who frankly doesn't care about Turkey shortages at Christmas, gift shortages etc? Like Christmas is supposed to be about family or Jesus (if you're religious)🤷🏾*♀️ (sucks for the poor though who were perhaps finally looking at buying their families gifts this year) not the food, gifts etc.
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Gaddafi
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#53
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Don't see why everyone is getting their knickers in a twist. Whether you supported remain or leave, you gotta admit that this is just a minor inconvenience
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Talkative Toad
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(Original post by Gaddafi)
Don't see why everyone is getting their knickers in a twist. Whether you supported remain or leave, you gotta admit that this is just a minor inconvenience
Minor? Maybe for some people like me sure but for others it was not. Some people couldn't get to work, some people can't afford to pay for the new prices of food or gas etc. I personally for me, shortages aren't that big of a deal (as no financial hit, no major distruption to my life etc) but I'm sure that there are people who disagree with this. Depends on the person and/or where you live, can't just dismiss all of the shortages as "minor".
Last edited by Talkative Toad; 1 week ago
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Gaddafi
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(Original post by Talkative Toad)
By denying the fact that Brexit would lead to shortages and that us "remoaners" were doing "project fear". We were being told that this was project fear by pro-brexiteers, this ain't project fear (the fact that we warned brexiteers about there would most like be shortages due to Brexit) shortages mate, this is project reality as I saw a comment on YouTube say. In short you were wrong about the idea that brexit would no lead to shortages and that brits would easily be able to fill up the jobs of those EU immagrants. We have shortages, brits are not applying en masse for the jobs that EU and EEA immigrants were doing.
With the way remainers spoke about it though, I was expecting disaster. I had numerous people try to convince me to vote remain by talking about how awful it would be (in the end I didn't bother voting.)

So far this has been very tolerable. Sure I haven't gained anything from Brexit like brexiteers said, but my life is actually no worse then it was in 2016.

(Original post by Talkative Toad)
Minor? Maybe for some people like me sure but for others it was not. Some people couldn't get to work, some people can't afford to pay for the new prices of food or gas etc. I personally for me, shortages aren't that big of a deal (as no financial hit, no major destruction to my life etc) but I'm sure that there are people who disagree with this. Depends on the person and/or
where you live, can't just dismiss all of the shortages as "minor".
Nobody starved to death. It was only a couple of days really. I do think it was minor.

Regarding work, people can use their legs and/or public transport.
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Talkative Toad
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(Original post by Gaddafi)
With the way remainers spoke about it though, I was expecting disaster. I had numerous people try to convince me to vote remain by talking about how awful it would be (in the end I didn't bother voting.)

So far this has been very tolerable. Sure I haven't gained anything from Brexit like brexiteers said, but my life is actually no worse then it was in 2016.


Nobody starved to death. It was only a couple of days really. I do think it was minor.

Regarding work, people can use their legs and/or public transport.
Even if no one starved to death some people can't afford the new food prices, so out of touch with reality some people are. Also public transport in this country is a scam (use it nearly every day and it's overpriced), I like using public transport but I wouldn't use it if you can avoid it and some areas (not mine because for me it's very good) have crap public transport links.

My life is also no worse now that we've left other than no free movement and international fees but silly to say that the shortages are minor, just because you and I have not been severely affected but them or that no one has "starved", some people have been affected severely, whether that's Traffic as a result of people being idiots and panic buying, workers and HGV drivers not being able to get to work, people not being able to afford to pay for their bills and food as a result of the increase in costs to buy Gas and Food. Good on you mate if you're like me and have not suffered but some have in a non-"minor" way and you need to acknowledge that. For some it's been minor, for some it has not.
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hotpud
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(Original post by Talkative Toad)
Am I the only one who frankly doesn't care about Turkey shortages at Christmas, gift shortages etc? Like Christmas is supposed to be about family or Jesus (if you're religious)🤷🏾*♀️ (sucks for the poor though who were perhaps finally looking at buying their families gifts this year) not the food, gifts etc.
Yeah - I used to think like that too. But you wait until you have kids of your own and a bunch on in-laws bearing down on you. To be fair, Christmas these days is lovely.
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Talkative Toad
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(Original post by hotpud)
Yeah - I used to think like that too. But you wait until you have kids of your own and a bunch on in-laws bearing down on you. To be fair, Christmas these days is lovely.
Nah trust me the only reason why I care about Christmas IS because of the gifts but I'm trying to say (I know I sound hypocritical) that that's not what Christmas should be about, Christmas should be about spending time with your loved ones, creating good memories, celebrating the birth of Jesus if you're religious, having a good time without panicking about how your going to get your child a PS5 for Christmas or whatever.

Christmas has become too God damn commercialised to the point where people feel pressured to get their children gifts, to have that turkey or special Christmas meal, some boast about their Christmas experience online etc, being saying that for like 2 years now. Sad that there's so much pressure during the Christmas season to make sure that you get everyone gifts, make the Christmas dinner etc. Hopefully people can appreciate Christmas more and not be like me lol.
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hotpud
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(Original post by Talkative Toad)
Nah trust me the only reason why I care about Christmas IS because of the gifts but I'm trying to say (I know I sound hypocritical) that that's not what Christmas should be about, Christmas should be about spending time with your loved ones, creating good memories, celebrating the birth of Jesus if you're religious, having a good time without panicking about how your going to get your child a PS5 for Christmas or whatever.
I couldn't agree more. And what is the centre piece of spending quality time with loved ones? Sharing food together. It is about the most human activity you can get. The thought of not being able to do that at Christmas is quite upsetting to a lot of people and they are rightly concerned.
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Talkative Toad
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(Original post by hotpud)
I couldn't agree more. And what is the centre piece of spending quality time with loved ones? Sharing food together. It is about the most human activity you can get. The thought of not being able to do that at Christmas is quite upsetting to a lot of people and they are rightly concerned.
True but the food doesn't need to be a fancy turkey is what I'm trying to say , just need to be good food that everyone likes can be pastry, chicken, salmon or whatever (coming from a picky eater). Hopefully we can get Turkeys for Christmas but for me that's not something I necessarily care about.
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