U.K. to offer emergency visas to HGV drivers.

Watch
londonmyst
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#81
Report 6 days ago
#81
(Original post by 04MR17)
Who's going to receive benefits that's not a UK citizen? :hmmm:
All the overseas nationals who are covered by the eu settlement scheme, afghan resettlement scheme and many of those who have entered uk territories unlawfully/overstayed on their visas/lied on visa applications or for the purpose of claiming asylum in order to obtain access to ilm & uk taxpayer funded welfare support (including the nhs/housing and direct supplies of food).
Last edited by londonmyst; 6 days ago
1
reply
Talkative Toad
Badges: 7
Rep:
?
#82
Report 6 days ago
#82
(Original post by londonmyst)
All the overseas nationals who are covered by the eu settlement scheme, afghan resettlement scheme and many of those who have entered uk territories unlawfully/overstayed on their visas/lied on visa applications or for the purpose of claiming asylum in order to obtain access to ilm & uk taxpayer funded welfare support (including the nhs/housing and direct supplies of food).
Don't really see the issue with EU citizens who are working and paying taxes in full benefiting from the UK's services 🤷🏾*♀️ I say that's better than anyone who's not working or in education.
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#83
Report 6 days ago
#83
(Original post by hotpud)
You sound very bitter. But you also seem intelligent. What is stopping you setting up a profitable business and then helping out the working classes yourself? You could pay fork lift drivers £40k and receptionists £50k in your company. If you don't like something, change it. Don't sit whinging on here doing nothing.
The irony in the fact you sit whinging on here about leaving the EU has not gone a miss but besides this, this text book right wing rhetoric makes me despair! It's so typical of those privileged to say such things in order to justify their support for polices they know will cause the poorest harm. Such a lazy argument like all Copy/paste political arguments.

Left - I think we should have ... 60% income tax bands or we should not turn our backs on desperate people seeking shelter

Right wing rhetoric - you should pay 60% of your wages if you want, why enforce us too....oh what's stopping you filling your house with homeless people ...

Its all very yawn and without any point. The truth is the poorer you are the harder making change is to achieve, you have so many hurdles in your way. Which is why we need regulations and safety nets paid for by progressive taxation to offset the pitfalls of a capitalist economy. Its the only system that's ever worked for all.

(Original post by hotpud)
If there is one thing I can guarantee it is that no government is going to solve all of your problems. Maybe you have to solve some of them for yourself?
You are correct, in a way and I am quite bitter politically. I'm bitter Corbyn blew the best opportunity to improve life for all, I'm bitter there is no way out away from this new labour/one nation conservative or modern conservative as Cameron tried to label it.

But besides that, How do you know I haven't? How do you know I haven't helped people with criminal record's into full time work, gave them training and opportunity? How do you know I don't have my own business?

You do know I'm middle class because, you do know I own several properties and you also know I have children and grand children because I've previously told you when you acted in a superior self important, condescending manner towards me in a different topic.

Maybe be be careful as you don't know whom you are speaking to online
0
reply
londonmyst
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#84
Report 6 days ago
#84
(Original post by Talkative Toad)
Don't really see the issue with EU citizens who are working and paying taxes in full benefiting from the UK's services
We'll agree to disagree on that.
I assume that you have a similar stance on all/almost all overseas nationals lawfully resident in the UK that are paying tax & working but hold citizenship of nations outside of the EU.
1
reply
Talkative Toad
Badges: 7
Rep:
?
#85
Report 6 days ago
#85
(Original post by londonmyst)
We'll agree to disagree on that.
I assume that you have a similar stance on all/almost all overseas nationals lawfully resident in the UK that are paying tax & working but hold citizenship of nations outside of the EU.
As long as they are not an illegal immigrant then yes, if they are illegal or not willing to contribute to the country then not they can get the hell out. I'll take someone paying taxes and having a job over someone living here and sitting on benefits (regardless of nationality).

Don't care about someone's nationality if you've got a job then great you're doing your bit to contribute to British society and that's what manners to me. Don't see the issue unless you can explain why you have an issue with foreigners living in this country paying full taxes same applies to Brits living and working abroad, have no issues with it.
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#86
Report 6 days ago
#86
(Original post by Starship Trooper)
So much to get into on this point.

Firstly we have traditionally had Sundays off because the UK is a defacto Christian country and that is still the dominant religion. Saudi Arabia and Israel can have their own days off if they do desire.

Secondly I think you've let the cat slip out of the bag. It's not so much about what people "want" Is it? It's about fulfilling some market demand.


See above in bold




I strongly agree with the basic premise of your claim and this is mainly the reason why I'm not an Austrian Economics wise (I agree with them on 90% else)

but I disagree with some of your examples. I know lots of people myself included who benefitted from a zero hour contract and 24/7 hour service is I imagine very popular- being able to buy stuff at Amazon first thing in the morning for next day delivery or getting a cheeseburger at 11PM are very helpful for people with busy lives...

TCA2b thoughts?
1) Class politics isn't indenity politics at all! The only the right wish to link it into that bracket is to dismiss reality, reality is there is only one form of oppression that's lack of 'X' by wealth. Reality and this is backed up by any statistics you wish, the more wealth you gave the more opportunities, healthcare, living conditions etc you can buy. This doesn't matter if you are a one legged, black, Muslim woman. The truth is if you have the money the easier opportunity comes.

Thats called reality nothing indenity politics.

2) I don't think calling the UK a Christian country holds much water outside of a few leafy rural posh villages. I guess in most middle class and working class places, Muslims have overtaken Christians and non believers out numbering both Christian and muslims put together. But this only my opinion I don't have data to back this up. I always find the traditional Conservative view a bit of a chuckle.

3) Maybe zero hour contracts was not the best example I could have used, I confess. 24/7 service is popular as long as you're not the person providing it for pence.
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#87
Report 6 days ago
#87
(Original post by Talkative Toad)
You do know that name calling get's you nowhere so I don't think that namecalling hotpud is useful and I'm sure that 04MR17 can agree. Mate we have shortages due to Brexit AND the reasons that you've listed, I don't know what about that is so hard to understand. If I can understand this then there's nothing stopping you from doing the same (same thing goes to remainers who want to deny the fact that COVID and other factors besides Brexit had anything to do with the shortages). We get it you don't like the EU and are having to resort to name-calling whenever people try to explain to you why we're worst off or why there are shortages.
I'm calling nobody directly @hotpot and myself have history but I'm not calling him at all. I'm describing the middle classes ilk he comes from. When someone or some group acts a certain way highlighting these actions or mannerisms isn't name calling its describing factual events. In fact, it's very important to a balanced society.

So why don't you run back and answer the points you are ignoring or struggling to get across as opposed to running to moderators trying to get opinions you cannot fully assimilate cancelled.


(Original post by Talkative Toad)
Is what Brexiteers are saying (not specifically you) that the shortages have nothing to do with Brexit which is false you said where have we been wrong, Brexiteers as a whole (not necessarily you) are trying to deny the fact that Brexit has anything to do with the shortages.
I repeat, would it not be possible to brexit and not enforce the immagrantuon rules which have caused low skilled labour shortages?

(Original post by Talkative Toad)
Agreed. Don't see why he has to resort to name-calling when no other Brexiteer in this thread has done it. Even Starship Trooper has managed to put forward his thoughts in a respectful manner (even if I disagree with him on almost everything) so I don't see what is stopping Burton from doing the same.
Irony abounds you are effectively calling Starship in that 🤣
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 6 days ago
1
reply
Starship Trooper
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#88
Report 6 days ago
#88
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
1) Class politics isn't indenity politics at all! The only the right wish to link it into that bracket is to dismiss reality, reality is there is only one form of oppression that's lack of 'X' by wealth. Reality and this is backed up by any statistics you wish, the more wealth you gave the more opportunities, healthcare, living conditions etc you can buy. This doesn't matter if you are a one legged, black, Muslim woman. The truth is if you have the money the easier opportunity comes.

Thats called reality nothing indenity politics.

2) I don't think calling the UK a Christian country holds much water outside of a few leafy rural posh villages. I guess in most middle class and working class places, Muslims have overtaken Christians and non believers out numbering both Christian and muslims put together. But this only my opinion I don't have data to back this up. I always find the traditional Conservative view a bit of a chuckle.

3) Maybe zero hour contracts was not the best example I could have used, I confess. 24/7 service is popular as long as you're not the person providing it for pence.
1-
A- Isn't identity real? Statistically who is going to have better life chances a disabled Muslim woman or a able bodied white person?

B- So are you just measuring class by wealth? Eg Is the premier League football player who thinks Mozart is a cocktail is upper class but a Starbucks barista who went to Eton and studied fine art is working class? I would say there are the people who encompass various classes and backgrounds and various undesirable elements who also have various classes and backgrounds.

2- that's why I said De facto, I agree with you. I'm just saying that the UK has s state religion which is the church of England.

I actually support a secular state. Religion is far stronger in the US than it is in Europe partly because it is untainted by government.
0
reply
Starship Trooper
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#89
Report 6 days ago
#89
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Irony abounds you are effectively calling Starship in that 🤣
Yeah that did make me chuckle
1
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#90
Report 6 days ago
#90
(Original post by Starship Trooper)
1-
A- Isn't identity real? Statistically who is going to have better life chances a disabled Muslim woman or a able bodied white person?

B- So are you just measuring class by wealth? Eg Is the premier League football player who thinks Mozart is a cocktail is upper class but a Starbucks barista who went to Eton and studied fine art is working class? I would say there are the people who encompass various classes and backgrounds and various undesirable elements who also have various classes and backgrounds.

2- that's why I said De facto, I agree with you. I'm just saying that the UK has s state religion which is the church of England.

I actually support a secular state. Religion is far stronger in the US than it is in Europe partly because it is untainted by government.
A) depends on how wealthy they are. Who's more likely to die homeless on the streets - a disabled Muslim woman or a able bodied white man? 🤔

B) you can try to blur the lines all you wish, the reality remains the more wealth a person has the better life they can buy.

1) it does but its a dead religion, the majority don't care. My point was the remoaner who has been crying about you name it what! Viewing via rose coloured EU glasses! The person is now complaining about not seeing family at Xmas. It's the status quo they wish to keep which is causing this, the middle classes are so snobby and removed from reality recently. This forum is terrible for it, one thread they are crying concern for the poor the next they are calling them all racist and stupid!
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 6 days ago
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#91
Report 6 days ago
#91
(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Yeah that did make me chuckle
Made me smirk. Its unfortunately par for the course online. Come in make a point lose the debate, ignore points/ move goal posts and try to get opponent cancelled.
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 6 days ago
0
reply
Talkative Toad
Badges: 7
Rep:
?
#92
Report 6 days ago
#92
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
I'm calling nobody directly @hotpot and myself have history but I'm not calling him at all. I'm describing the middle classes ilk he comes from. When someone or some group acts a certain way highlighting these actions or mannerisms isn't name calling its describing factual events. In fact, it's very important to a balanced society.

So why don't you run back and answer the points you are ignoring or struggling to get across as opposed to running to moderators trying to get opinions you cannot fully assimilate cancelled.




I repeat, would it not be possible to brexit and not enforce the immagrantuon rules which have caused low skilled labour shortages?



Irony abounds you are effectively calling Starship in that 🤣
What am I calling starship? I haven't name called him at all and no one else on this thread has done it. I simply disagree with him, I'm not going to namecall people who I disagree with as that adds nothing productive. Saying this:
It's no wonder the elite can shift blame to the "liberal elite" - AKA the middle classes - with how snobby, self serving and devoid of reality you have become adds nothing and is unnecessary, there's no need to speak like this to someone just because you disagree with them, that's all, no need to be bitter lol, don't see why you have to resort to name-calling regardless of how much you dislike that user and/or the middle class. Also I personally as a middle class person couldn't care less about cancelled Christmas and I don't see why people are making such a big deal out of it (well I can see why but don't really have much sympathy).
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#93
Report 6 days ago
#93
(Original post by Talkative Toad)
What am I calling starship? I haven't name called him at all and no one else on this thread has done it. I simply disagree with him, I'm not going to namecall people who I disagree with as that adds nothing productive. Saying this:
It's no wonder the elite can shift blame to the "liberal elite" - AKA the middle classes - with how snobby, self serving and devoid of reality you have become adds nothing and is unnecessary, there's no need to speak like this to someone just because you disagree with them, that's all, no need to be bitter lol, don't see why you have to resort to name-calling regardless of how much you dislike that user and/or the middle class. Also I personally as a middle class person couldn't care less about cancelled Christmas and I don't see why people are making such a big deal out of it (well I can see why but don't really have much sympathy).
Stand by that, it's not personal to hotpud he belongs to this group and calling them out is important. Are you saying they should be about criticism?

The "you" was aimed at the group not the individual. Example is "You (X football club) was rubbish this weekend, we (z football club) hammered you"

While this is fantastically interesting listening to you inaccurately try to label me a name caller! Do you ha anything on the actual points/questions in the debate, whuch you are ignoring?
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 6 days ago
0
reply
Starship Trooper
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#94
Report 6 days ago
#94
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
A) depends on how wealthy they are. Who's more likely to die on homeless on the streets a disabled Muslim woman or a able bodied white man? 🤔

B) you can try to blur the lines all you wish, the reality remains the more wealth a person has the better life they can buy.

1) it does but its a dead religion, the majority don't care. My point was the remoaner who has been crying about you make it with their rise coloured EU supplied glasses is now complaining about not seeing family at Xmas. It's the status quo they wish to keep which is causing this, the middle classes are so snobby and removed from reality recently. This forum is terrible for it, one thread they are crying concern for the poor the next they are calling them all racist and stupid!
A- Is Identity a reality or isn't it?

Sure a wealthy disabled muslim is going to be better off than a homeless able bodied white guy, That's why I said statistically. I could also by the same token refute your claim by saying that a smart poor person could become a millionaire and a dumb rich person could lose it all.

B- Sure. But that isn't neccessarily a bad thing is it? You're ot a commie so presumably you think a doctor should be paid more than someone who flips burgers right or is on the dole.

1: I won't go into whether christianity is a dead religion or not, suffice to say I disagree (If anyone wants to know why start a new thread and tag me)

I actually don't agree. The problem isn't that they cant criticise the poor for making decisions they think are stupid, the problem is they're wrong.
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#95
Report 6 days ago
#95
(Original post by Starship Trooper)
A- Is Identity a reality or isn't it?

Sure a wealthy disabled muslim is going to be better off than a homeless able bodied white guy, That's why I said statistically. I could also by the same token refute your claim by saying that a smart poor person could become a millionaire and a dumb rich person could lose it all.

B- Sure. But that isn't neccessarily a bad thing is it? You're ot a commie so presumably you think a doctor should be paid more than someone who flips burgers right or is on the dole.

1: I won't go into whether christianity is a dead religion or not, suffice to say I disagree (If anyone wants to know why start a new thread and tag me)

I actually don't agree. The problem isn't that they cant criticise the poor for making decisions they think are stupid, the problem is they're wrong.
A - class poltics are not akin to modern indenity politics

B- of course it a bad thing. If nothing else for selfish reasons many intelligent poor people are being wasted because we only pull from richer demographics. Which is terrible for science, business and the country.

I'm not a commie either, I'm a democratic socialist.

1) non no no, I didn't say christianity was a dead religion. I said church of England is a dead religion.
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 6 days ago
0
reply
Starship Trooper
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#96
Report 6 days ago
#96
(Original post by Talkative Toad)
What am I calling starship? I haven't name called him at all and no one else on this thread has done it. I simply disagree with him, I'm not going to namecall people who I disagree with as that adds nothing productive.
You said "Even Starship...." which could I think be seen as somehow implying that I'm some usually unreasoanble person.

That's not to say I was remotley bothered by it, but I did notice it and found it funny!
1
reply
Talkative Toad
Badges: 7
Rep:
?
#97
Report 6 days ago
#97
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Stand by that, it's not personal to hotpud he belongs to this group and calling them out is important. Are you saying they should be about criticism?

The "you" was aimed at the group not the individual. Example is "You (X football club) was rubbish this weekend, we (z football club) hammered you"

Anything on the actual points/questions in the debate, you are ignoring?
What would not be possible to Brexit? Need to rephrase that question. Obviously you have every right to call out a group but you can do it in a respectful manner like other users have done 🤷🏾*♀️.

(Original post by Starship Trooper)
You said "Even Starship...." which could I think be seen as somehow implying that I'm some usually unreasoanble person.

That's not to say I was remotley bothered by it, but I did notice it and found it funny!
No I simply meant that I usually disagree with you but I respect the fact that you're putting forward your points in a coherent manner without namecalling that's all.
1
reply
Starship Trooper
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#98
Report 6 days ago
#98
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
A - class poltics are not akin to modern indenity politics

B- of course it a bad thing. If nothing else for selfish reasons many intelligent poor people are being wasted because we only pull from richer demographics. Which is terrible for science, business and the country.

I'm not a commie either, I'm a democratic socialist.

1) non no no, I didn't say christianity was a dead religion. I said church of England is a dead religion.
A) I note you added the prefix "Modern" to identity politcs. OK obviously the more uh, "fringe" woke stuff like queerkin etc are not as important as class but what about things like nation, race, culture or/and religion? I think these are much more important.

B:

I- To play devils advocate, could the same thing not be said about identity politics, eg black gay etc are being "wasted"? Why is that not relevant but class is?

II- To some extent I agree with you, which is why i'm in favour of grammar schools. But I thik there are better ways of improving social mobility which don't neccessarily involve punishing higher earners or just throwing money at them.

1: Cool
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#99
Report 6 days ago
#99
(Original post by Talkative Toad)
What would not be possible to Brexit? Need to rephrase that question. Obviously you have every right to call out a group but you can do it in a respectful manner like other users have done 🤷🏾*♀️.
So in your would, how do you call out people how are acting condensing, disrespectful, labelling entire demographics as racists, stupid or lazy based on zero evidence?

I mean you just used mirco aggressions on Starship!
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 6 days ago
0
reply
Starship Trooper
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#100
Report 6 days ago
#100
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
So in your would, how do you call out people how are acting condensing, disrespectful, labelling entire demographics as racists, stupid or lazy based on zero evidence?
You could say something along the lines of "Some people would say that..." without actually calling them out on it.

Napp is the master of this.

I mean personally I'm against this, I think people should just be honest about what they think and speak straightforwardly, but unfortunately that will just devolve the forum into a **** show because people are generally idiots online, so it's best to avoid confrontation. Very rarely I will see some NPC poster post something so stupid that I might have to just avoid the post but I try not to get personal although i'm only human. Progressive capitalists/ libertarians are my downfall as I can only deal with so much cringe.
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

How are you feeling now you've started university?

I'm loving it! (46)
13.37%
I'm enjoying it but I'm still settling in (93)
27.03%
I'm a bit unsure (60)
17.44%
I'm finding things difficult (115)
33.43%
Something else (let us know in the thread!) (30)
8.72%

Watched Threads

View All