Thoughts on German election 2021

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!Capercaillie
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#21
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#21
(Original post by DSilva)

Globally its fair to say populism has not had a good pandemic.
Well, when you come into power on the basis of emotive vacuous statements about how the establishment/elite are shafting you (particularly ironic from a billionaire who used his time in office to push through tax cuts for the elite) yet having little substance beyond that, it should come as no surprise that they fail at actual governance. In a democracy, such weak men quickly get booted out of office.
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Starship Trooper
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#22
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#22
(Original post by !Capercaillie)
Well, when you come into power on the basis of emotive vacuous statements about how the establishment/elite are shafting you (particularly ironic from a billionaire who used his time in office to push through tax cuts for the elite) yet having little substance beyond that, it should come as no surprise that they fail at actual governance. In a democracy, such weak men quickly get booted out of office.
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Meanwhile...

But in any case thank you for your cringe take Trilobite as always. If you are against politicians coming "into power on the basis of emotive vacuous statements" then you don't understand democracy very well. The ancients understood this. Put down the Guardian or whatever trash you read and pick up Plato's The Republic and educate yourself
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Ascend
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#23
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(Original post by TCA2b)
the establishment
:laugh:
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DSilva
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#24
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#24
(Original post by Starship Trooper)
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Meanwhile...

But in any case thank you for your cringe take Trilobite as always. If you are against politicians coming "into power on the basis of emotive vacuous statements" then you don't understand democracy very well. The ancients understood this. Put down the Guardian or whatever trash you read and pick up Plato's The Republic and educate yourself
He has a point though. You can't exactly pretend to be anti establishment of your key 'achievement' was to massively lower the tax rate for huge conglomerates.
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Starship Trooper
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#25
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#25
(Original post by DSilva)
You can't exactly pretend to be anti establishment of your key 'achievement' was to massively lower the tax rate for huge conglomerates.
Why not? How is that any more establishment than giving more money and power to central government? Eg Bernie?

To some degree Trump was part of the establishment but he turned against them which is partly why elites hate him so much.

The Establishment doesn't say or do the things Trump does - whether that's talking about forever wars, the corruption of former Presidents (of both parties) , banning Muslim Immigration or a variety of other things Including "conspiracy theories". The establishment doesn't get banned from twitter. The establishment doesn't have generals disobeying him and collude with China against him, etc as nauseum
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DSilva
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Why not? How is that any more establishment than giving more money and power to central government? Eg Bernie?

To some degree Trump was part of the establishment but he turned against them which is partly why elites hate him so much.

The Establishment doesn't say or do the things Trump does - whether that's talking about forever wars, the corruption of former Presidents (of both parties) , banning Muslim Immigration or a variety of other things Including "conspiracy theories". The establishment doesn't get banned from twitter. The establishment doesn't have generals disobeying him and collude with China against him, etc as nauseum
He didn't really turn against them.

"we're gonna stick it to the establishment by.... giving them huge tax breaks and more freedom to do what they want"

Fox News is very much part of the establishment, and said all those things long before Trump came into power.
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Ascend
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#27
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#27
Like the U.S., Germany Is Divided. Unlike America, It’s Coping

Also worth checking out the BBC R4's Analysis episode on Reimagining the Nation.
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Starship Trooper
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#28
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#28
(Original post by DSilva)
He didn't really turn against them.

"we're gonna stick it to the establishment by.... giving them huge tax breaks and more freedom to do what they want"

Fox News is very much part of the establishment,

and said all those things long before Trump came into power.
No... At least not to a significant extent. Which I agree he should have done more on.

"we're gonna stick it to the establishment by.... giving them more money and power!"- I mean it's a rigged system- heads I win, tails you lose type deal.

Yes it is... With the exception of Tucker and that's only because of greed and opportunitism on their part. Murdoch hates Trump and wants people like Marco Rubio to lead the party. The bulk of the GOP are establishment neocons little better and occasionally worse than the democrats- their literal whole schtick is "democrats are the real racists/ other pejorative" .

I can very much assure you that Fox did not say that Bush was responsible for 9/11, that we went to war in Iraq based on lies or various other things. The Conservative Establishment HATED Trump* (and still does though they try and hide it - eg see Kevin McCarthy trying to support anti Trump candidates discretely)

*See here, people forget:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H4ThZc...p=QAFIAQ%3D%3D

This is not what an establishment politician would say and anyone who says otherwise is an idiot, a liar or both.
Last edited by Starship Trooper; 2 weeks ago
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Rakas21
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#29
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#29
Generally speaking the trends seen since the 2013 high (2017 and 2021 being the general elections since) are to weaken the right as a whole in consectutive elections but also the center/establishment in general. The FDP (basically 07-15 Lib Dem Orange Bookers) work quite openly with the AfD (basically Ukip) and the Greens while not as nutty as ours are to the left of the SDP, those 3 have been broadly stable/strengthened in that timeframe.

Both establishment parties got historically poor vote shares albeit the SDP has come out on top.
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Starship Trooper
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#30
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#30
(Original post by Rakas21)
Generally speaking the trends seen since the 2013 high (2017 and 2021 being the general elections since) are to weaken the right as a whole in consectutive elections but also the center/establishment in general. The FDP (basically 07-15 Lib Dem Orange Bookers) work quite openly with the AfD (basically Ukip) and the Greens while not as nutty as ours are to the left of the SDP, those 3 have been broadly stable/strengthened in that timeframe.

Both establishment parties got historically poor vote shares albeit the SDP has come out on top.
What?
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Rakas21
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#31
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#31
(Original post by Starship Trooper)
What?
In one or two of the federal states.
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Starship Trooper
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#32
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#32
(Original post by Rakas21)
In one or two of the federal states.
No lol.

That was an incident in eastern Germany where basically there was a hidden ballot and the AFD, to undermine and get rid of the far left state governor in charge voted for the FDP candidate.

When they worked out what happened the FDP leader resigned and denounced the AfD and there was another state election.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019...state_election

Its pretty hilarious
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DSilva
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#33
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#33
(Original post by Rakas21)
Generally speaking the trends seen since the 2013 high (2017 and 2021 being the general elections since) are to weaken the right as a whole in consectutive elections but also the center/establishment in general. The FDP (basically 07-15 Lib Dem Orange Bookers) work quite openly with the AfD (basically Ukip) and the Greens while not as nutty as ours are to the left of the SDP, those 3 have been broadly stable/strengthened in that timeframe.

Both establishment parties got historically poor vote shares albeit the SDP has come out on top.
There are signs of modest centre left/social democrat revivals in some places. Far from uniform though.

The economic inequality exposed by the pandemic, combined with the ever increasing prominence of climate change and its importance to voters does provide an opportunity for social democrats.
Last edited by DSilva; 2 weeks ago
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Rakas21
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#34
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#34
(Original post by DSilva)
There are signs of modest centre left/social democrat revivals in some places. Far from uniform though.

The economic inequality exposed by the pandemic, combined with the ever increasing prominence of climate change and its importance to voters does provide an opportunity for social democrats.
Perhaps but at their second lowest vote share level i'm not sure we can draw too many conclusions.
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DSilva
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#35
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#35
(Original post by Rakas21)
Perhaps but at their second lowest vote share level i'm not sure we can draw too many conclusions.
It's relative though. Last election they won around 5% less of the vote and only a year ago they were polling at 15% with the party being written off as an electoral force.
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Tightrope
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#36
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#36
Merkel spent most of her time in Israel visiting their Holocaust memorials

Pathetic puppet leader

Germans are a defeated people, and shame on other Whites especially British who are genetically not much different to Germans for siding with the enemy
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