Is dating much harder for average guys compared to average women?

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karl pilkington
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Yes 20% of men get 80% of the sex women are the selectors so they go for men above them.
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Callicious
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(Original post by Admit-One)
Initial thoughts about your link:

  • It's 6 years old
  • The investigator notes that he "wasn’t getting any hot Tinder dates I had plenty of time to do the math", so he is bias from the outset. (His pen name is "Worst-Online-Dater"!).
  • We don't really know who he is or what his credentials are.
  • He acknowledges the small sample size (27 women interviewed) and that the 'like' figure are self reported (although they match well with other studies)

One thing I don't think he is accounting for why women might 'like' much fewer men on dating apps than men do women, (it's touched on very briefly). Dating apps are a much safer space for men, in the sense that women don't tend to become angry or abusive if things don't go well, (just broadly speaking, let's not go down the "not all men" route today thank you). So there is a degree of self protection going on there.

Now, the upshot of that is that within the dating app ecosphere, yes, average men might be less 'visible', depending on how matches are made or presented. BUT out in the real world, as others have noted, women are generally more amenable to dating someone is slightly below their relative attractiveness, because they're a bit less superficial and value a lot of different qualities, (again a generalisation, but then again this whole thread is really).

So again, fundamentally, I think both men and women will tend to date people who are a similar match in terms of their socio-economic group and relative attractiveness and I've not seen anything compelling to make me think otherwise.

Disclaimer: I'm an average looking dude with slightly below average pics and I had a very acceptable level of success with a year or so of online dating.
That investigator clearly did his PhD in Statistics, a true role model to us all :lol:
(Original post by Gaddafi)
Yes. This is due to young men being thirstier and more desperate. This drives up the demand/market value of young women. And yes I am looking at people like a commodity here.
As any dictator should :lol: Seriously though your comments are always gold :P

(Original post by CorporalJin)
Im going to say yes, men have it harder in General.
This is no secret either.

I have to disagree with the first few replies on this thread, most guys DO respect women and don't see them as some kind of prize/trophy, or insert some type of misandrist excuse on why men fail whilst excluding the bigger picture and nit-picking doesn't fly with me...

Why do men have it harder?

I mean logically think about this. Go on google/youtube and you are filled with literally millions of views on ''how to pick up girls/be in a relationship with them'' etc etc.
yet the opposite you do not see that much attraction/viewership on the womens side on ''how to attract males''
Well because women have it easier. matter of FACT that have it so easy most of the time they don't have to put any effort into it apart from saying yes or no to guys that approach them....

Also men are the ones that have to do the approaching, deal with the anxiety, ego hits from rejection, be on point with game and so forth..

Anyone that says men and women are equal in terms of difficulty in dating are either:

A. Women themselves that have zero experience on the other side of the coin, and are just saying this becuase its politically correct to say so, but deep down know its BS unless they are borderline delusional.

B. Men that have it easier then the ''average'' guy in terms of dating so seem to think it translates to every other average joe and it must be men being ''creeps and disrepectful to women'' as the sole reason they have no success with women.

C. Modern day dating stats PROVE that men have it harder, the sexlessness rate for guys has tripled to almost 30% (No sex past year) compared to women, and most is not by choice either...

D. I live in the City centre and go out regularly and can see FIRST HAND gender dynamics, yes men have it harder,will always be and has been harder for male counter parts compared to female...
**** it, even in nature this shows, and humans are no different so... Yes to OPs title..
You can also go on YouTube and find videos of ducks playing the drums that have millions of views: YouTube viewer statistics are no basis for a sound argument. Just because I watch a video of some random Peking playing the drums for a few minutes, that doesn't mean I want to slam my **** into some labyrinthine duck ***** now does it?

Anyway, personally I think if you rely on the paradigm of the colosseum of a bunch of guys fighting over a girl, i.e. through dating apps/pubs/bars, then you're obviously going to find a bias favouring the girls. As the best dictator on TSR said, it's a who's-who of thirsty young men fencing each-other with their erections, hoping that one of them will come out on top to claim their prize. If you don't rely on the meat-flute colosseum, and instead look to the case of friends hooking friends up with each-other, workplace hook-ups, that kind of thing, you'll find a different story. Edit: I have the phrase. LAD CULTURE!

This "bias," imo, likely doesn't apply to men who don't associate themselves with the phrase "be on point with game." My own anecdotal evidence to that is that my ex and my current partner were both introduced to me by friends, and clearly this must mean that the bias is favourable to men not women, as I have had two, and they have both only had one! All men must be equal after all, right?
Last edited by Callicious; 1 week ago
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CorporalJin
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(Original post by londonmyst)
If you spent 2-3 days listening to the divorcing heterosexual couples I see at work and watching their body language, you'd soon start pondering:

1) whether those divorcing women actually could have attracted a richer guy willing to marry them or if they were just incredibly lucky to find one idiot with more cash/real estate/other inherited assets than brains,
and
2) reassessing whether every girl you've ever dated or hooked up with secretly held a similar entitled attitude but took the trouble to flawlessly disguise it during the relationship.
You ever heard of Hypergamy?
Majority of women will exercise that, its literally BUILT in their DNA to find the best they can lock down.
Its not about disguising to finally be with some celebrity. It just sort of happens...

Women think emotionally first instead of logic, the opposite tends to be true for guys.
Guys will think ''Oh 10 years we were together, all the time/money/energy put into her why would she leave me?''
Meanwhile on her side, she decided she had her fun and the course has run dry and wants to move on to a newer guy, despite not giving 2 Fs about how long and commited her previous guy was towards her...

Hell theres countless examples of women cheating on their husbands with some guy that is high in social status (Money/connections etc , etc) that is hypergamy strictly at play, not saying all women do that, but a lot will if given the chance.

Just take Drake for example and the 8 year relationship he destroyed because some dudes wife was hypergamous and fcked the rapper when given the chance > That hypergamy, she didn't plan that out, it was spontaneous, in her DNA...

Also explains why marriage and birth rates is an all time low in the West, men are waking up to this BS everyday, espicially with feminism playing a HUGE role in all this, sexual exploration means women are more promoscious then ever before. They can exercise not commiting to guys and leaving their partners whenever the hint of the relationship being difficult, Poof gone, because they can....
Last edited by CorporalJin; 1 week ago
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Sunny gup
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What is “Average” according to you -
Are you referring
Income
Looks
Education
Job/Business
Character
Country
Colour/Race etc
For some men looks are important, but for some, educated women tops the charts and this is universally true for women aswel when they date guys. Everyone out there is best in some aspects but average in some. I have seen CA’s Doctors getting married to very average looking men working as Plumbers.
There are some beautiful men and women couple, Doctors and Lawyers, married, and divorced in a year and who will keep hopping from one partner to another coz more than a relation they are looking for casual sex.
From my experience, there are more chances of opposites making it long term than a very attractive and high profile couple.
I am a bald HR manager who started going to gym after marriage and my wife is beautiful since college and she is pro dietician. But we are steady as rock since 18 years.
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Anonymous #1
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(Original post by Callicious)
That investigator clearly did his PhD in Statistics, a true role model to us all :lol:

As any dictator should :lol: Seriously though your comments are always gold :P


You can also go on YouTube and find videos of ducks playing the drums that have millions of views: YouTube viewer statistics are no basis for a sound argument. Just because I watch a video of some random Peking playing the drums for a few minutes, that doesn't mean I want to slam my **** into some labyrinthine duck ***** now does it?

Anyway, personally I think if you rely on the paradigm of the colosseum of a bunch of guys fighting over a girl, i.e. through dating apps/pubs/bars, then you're obviously going to find a bias favouring the girls. As the best dictator on TSR said, it's a who's-who of thirsty young men fencing each-other with their erections, hoping that one of them will come out on top to claim their prize. If you don't rely on the meat-flute colosseum, and instead look to the case of friends hooking friends up with each-other, workplace hook-ups, that kind of thing, you'll find a different story. Edit: I have the phrase. LAD CULTURE!

This "bias," imo, likely doesn't apply to men who don't associate themselves with the phrase "be on point with game." My own anecdotal evidence to that is that my ex and my current partner were both introduced to me by friends, and clearly this must mean that the bias is favourable to men not women, as I have had two, and they have both only had one! All men must be equal after all, right?
And there are plenty of guys who never get introductions from female friends even if they ask, saying they don’t have any single female friends. Also plenty of guys with hundreds of female friends but none of them want to date him.
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Anonymous #1
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It is nothing to do with trophies or winning or whatever. The fact is that plenty of men don’t even get a first date despite asking a broad range of women out.
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CorporalJin
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(Original post by Callicious)
You can also go on YouTube and find videos of ducks playing the drums that have millions of views: YouTube viewer statistics are no basis for a sound argument. Just because I watch a video of some random Peking playing the drums for a few minutes, that doesn't mean I want to slam my **** into some labyrinthine duck ***** now does it?

Anyway, personally I think if you rely on the paradigm of the colosseum of a bunch of guys fighting over a girl, i.e. through dating apps/pubs/bars, then you're obviously going to find a bias favouring the girls. As the best dictator on TSR said, it's a who's-who of thirsty young men fencing each-other with their erections, hoping that one of them will come out on top to claim their prize. If you don't rely on the meat-flute colosseum, and instead look to the case of friends hooking friends up with each-other, workplace hook-ups, that kind of thing, you'll find a different story. Edit: I have the phrase. LAD CULTURE!

This "bias," imo, likely doesn't apply to men who don't associate themselves with the phrase "be on point with game." My own anecdotal evidence to that is that my ex and my current partner were both introduced to me by friends, and clearly this must mean that the bias is favourable to men not women, as I have had two, and they have both only had one! All men must be equal after all, right?
It does have a basis, how does statistics and viewership not show it?
Again you don't see as nearly as much attention on the other side of the coin. 100+ channels on youtube are dedicated to content like that, ranging from Pick up artists to RedPill etc etc...
For the most part its guys looking for help/advice. You can't compare cute duck/cat videos to that, its foolish.
Hell theres even whole forums dedicated to mens dating, yet the same can't really be said for women in terms of attention..
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CorporalJin
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(Original post by Anonymous)
It is nothing to do with trophies or winning or whatever. The fact is that plenty of men don’t even get a first date despite asking a broad range of women out.
Thats because men have it harder, you just anwsered your original title.
And everyone nitpicking ****.

Callicious

''oH weLl IvE BeEn in TwO reLaTioNshIPs wiTh WomEN, aND ThOse WomEN hAd NonE prEviouSLy!!!''

doesnt excuse the fact that countless men are struggling MORE then their counter-parts
The stats show it, the studies show it, the research shows it.
What more proof do you want?!?!?

Also its well known that women will literally lie about their past relationships/body count when they are trying to get with someone.
Women will deflate their numbers while guys will lie by inflating theirs, studies show this.

If you deny any of these facts than you really are delusional and haven't done your research.
Its fine if you don't want to, but no need to comment when the truth is the complete opposite....
Last edited by CorporalJin; 1 week ago
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londonmyst
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(Original post by CorporalJin)
You ever heard of Hypergamy?
Majority of women will exercise that, its literally BUILT in their DNA to find the best they can lock down.
Its not about disguising to finally be with some celebrity. It just sort of happens...

Women think emotionally first instead of logic, the opposite tends to be true for guys.
Guys will think ''Oh 10 years we were together, all the time/money/energy put into her why would she leave me?''
Meanwhile on her side, she decided she had her fun and the course has run dry and wants to move on to a newer guy, despite not giving 2 Fs about how long and commited her previous guy was towards her...

Hell theres countless examples of women cheating on their husbands with some guy that is high in social status (Money/connections etc , etc) that is hypergamy strictly at play, not saying all women do that, but a lot will if given the chance.

Just take Drake for example and the 8 year relationship he destroyed because some dudes wife was hypergamous and fcked the rapper when given the chance > That hypergamy, she didn't plan that out, it was spontaneous, in her DNA...

Also explains why marriage and birth rates is an all time low in the West, men are waking up to this BS everyday, espicially with feminism playing a HUGE role in all this, sexual exploration means women are more promoscious then ever before. They can exercise not commiting to guys and leaving their partners whenever the hint of the relationship being difficult, Poof gone, because they can....
Yes, I've heard of hypergamy. :cool:

I am one of the heterosexual females with a very long list of dating dealbreakers, high rejection rate and habit of walking out on bf's whenever I realise that I've been dating a sexually incompatible male or am in a relationship with guy incompatible with my other dealbreakers/ambitions/lifestyle preferences.
Nothing to do with feminism, I am not a feminist and avoid dating guys that are.
Plenty to do with compatibility and personal ambitions.
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Anonymous #3
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(Original post by Anonymous)
No one is saying they are trophies but there are plenty of men who get nothing but rejections despite asking a large number of women. That’s not comparable to the average woman who will get a date if they ask the same number of men.
I think people (particularly men in my experience) have a different view of what asking is. For example, if a random guys comes up to me and then very quickly asks me out then I’ll say no because that’s very quick, a bit off putting and I have no idea who this person is. That is what most men do when they ask me out.

People are more likely to get relationships if they put work into getting to know a women because they like her instead of asking a bunch of women out.
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(Original post by Anonymous)
I think people (particularly men in my experience) have a different view of what asking is. For example, if a random guys comes up to me and then very quickly asks me out then I’ll say no because that’s very quick, a bit off putting and I have no idea who this person is. That is what most men do when they ask me out.

People are more likely to get relationships if they put work into getting to know a women because they like her instead of asking a bunch of women out.
Plenty of men (including myself and many of my friends) try this and then get told they just want to be friends. This isn’t just once or a few times, it happens over and over over years.
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CorporalJin
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(Original post by londonmyst)
Yes, I've heard of hypergamy. :cool:

I am one of the heterosexual females with a very long list of dating dealbreakers, high rejection rate and habit of walking out on bf's whenever I realise that I've been dating a sexually incompatible male or am in a relationship with guy incompatible with my other dealbreakers/ambitions/lifestyle preferences.
Nothing to do with feminism, I am not a feminist and avoid dating guys that are.
Plenty to do with compatibility and personal ambitions.
I mean if anything that just proved my point that you are not willing to stick it out and make things work as soon as you see they are not getting it right.
You literally just proved your hypergamous behaviour if you wanted to or not, as I said, its literally built in Womens DNA...

Yeah in that case it doesn't have anything to do with feminism.
But feminism has also amplified that to a whole another degree and stats show it..
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xxKittyxx
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(Original post by CorporalJin)
C. Modern day dating stats PROVE that men have it harder, the sexlessness rate for guys has tripled to almost 30% (No sex past year) compared to women, and most is not by choice either...
So 70% of men are getting laid? It is really that hard to be in the 70%?

(Original post by CorporalJin)
Also explains why marriage and birth rates is an all time low in the West, men are waking up to this BS everyday, espicially with feminism playing a HUGE role in all this, sexual exploration means women are more promoscious then ever before. They can exercise not commiting to guys and leaving their partners whenever the hint of the relationship being difficult, Poof gone, because they can....
Women are more promiscuous than ever and some men still can't find someone to sleep with or date? Come on. This summer has been an absolute wild one for single people once covid restrictions were lifted.


By your own statistics, the majority of men are having sex. The bar is very low. This issue is not society, women, feminism or whatever other external factor men who struggle with women want to blame. The minority of men who struggle need to stop making excuses for themselves (not least because such self-pity is a really unattractive trait) and take responsibility for their situation.

Put yourself in the 70%.
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CorporalJin
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(Original post by Anonymous)
Plenty of men (including myself and many of my friends) try this and then get told they just want to be friends. This isn’t just once or a few times, it happens over and over over years.
This whole dating is complicated if you live in the West espicially.

Theres a funny reason why its becoming popular that guys want to wife up Eastern, Asian women.
Western women have high standards that most guys don't/can't meet.
They put no effort in making things work when the going gets tough. And why would they when they can easily jump onto another dude instead? Seems like what im seeing in the younger generation/mine to currently.

I bedded PLENTY of women that are taken/relationships because they didn't feel like dealing with hardships of a guy.
As much fun as it is, I can't help but think its doomed for a lot of average guys that want a faithful women.
I mean look at the virginity and sexlessness stats... If that doesn't ring alarm bells concering modern day dating for people aged below 30, I don't know what will.
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Anonymous #1
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(Original post by xxKittyxx)
So 70% of men are getting laid? It is really that hard to be in the 70%?



Women are more promiscuous than ever and some men still can't find someone to sleep with or date? Come on. This summer has been an absolute wild one for single people once covid restrictions were lifted.


By your own statistics, the majority of men are having sex. The bar is very low. This issue is not society, women, feminism or whatever other external factor men who struggle with women want to blame. The minority of men who struggle need to stop making excuses for themselves (not least because such self-pity is a really unattractive trait) and take responsibility for their situation.

Put yourself in the 70%.
Actually the better known statistic is that 80% of women are having sex with 20% of men.
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(Original post by Anonymous)
Plenty of men (including myself and many of my friends) try this and then get told they just want to be friends. This isn’t just once or a few times, it happens over and over over years.
Yes. That’s probably because the women aren’t interested. I don’t have many dealbreakers but the ones I have are pretty major as they relate to the lifestyle I want in the future. I know that if people aren’t on board with that then that’s going to create problems years down the line. I have lots of friends both men and women and I haven’t ever wanted to date any of them.

If there’s nothing there then there’s nothing to be done about it.

I think what bothers me personally is that people put such a weight on relationships. It might be because I’m a really career driven person but my attitude is (and this is similar to a lot of people studying on the course with me) if it happens it happens but I have other higher priorities and I don’t need a relationship.

So if I find someone I like I’ll go for it. If not I really don’t care so will reject most people
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Anonymous #1
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(Original post by Anonymous)
Yes. That’s probably because the women aren’t interested. I don’t have many dealbreakers but the ones I have are pretty major as they relate to the lifestyle I want in the future. I know that if people aren’t on board with that then that’s going to create problems years down the line. I have lots of friends both men and women and I haven’t ever wanted to date any of them.

If there’s nothing there then there’s nothing to be done about it.

I think what bothers me personally is that people put such a weight on relationships. It might be because I’m a really career driven person but my attitude is (and this is similar to a lot of people studying on the course with me) if it happens it happens but I have other higher priorities and I don’t need a relationship.

So if I find someone I like I’ll go for it. If not I really don’t care so will reject most people
Well then that’s fine. It’s everyone’s personal choice what they want or don’t want.

But if many women are like you, then that’s probably why many men struggle so much. Generally men are happier in relationships. Women are happier alone.
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CorporalJin
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(Original post by xxKittyxx)
So 70% of men are getting laid? It is really that hard to be in the 70%?



Women are more promiscuous than ever and some men still can't find someone to sleep with or date? Come on. This summer has been an absolute wild one for single people once covid restrictions were lifted.


By your own statistics, the majority of men are having sex. The bar is very low. This issue is not society, women, feminism or whatever other external factor men who struggle with women want to blame. The minority of men who struggle need to stop making excuses for themselves (not least because such self-pity is a really unattractive trait) and take responsibility for their situation.

Put yourself in the 70%.
Seems like you have flipped the statisctics completely and have no idea what your talking about.

80% of women are geting laid with 20% of the top men, meaning only the higher top guys are getting most of the action.
So instead of 70% its 20% darling... yeah talk about having your **** together more then ever as a dude...

This issue is not society, women, feminism
Actually... it is, its been proven when society becomes advanced the population decreases, women no longer need to find a partner to survive since society has reached a point where everyone is realistcally self-sufficient. Look Japan, Look at Western Europe...

Heres a graph of a well known study.

https://features.inside.com/content/.../young-men.png

Thats having no sex in a year, sure 70% of men are getting laid compared to 82% of women still, but im willing to bet my top dollar not as much/often as women. The Tinder/ Instagram experiments show that to..
One guy managing to get laid once a year, compared to a women that does it multiple times a month with different guys shows the 80/20 %... (Top guys bagging majority of women)
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CorporalJin
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(Original post by Anonymous)
Well then that’s fine. It’s everyone’s personal choice what they want or don’t want.

But if many women are like you, then that’s probably why many men struggle so much. Generally men are happier in relationships. Women are happier alone.
Women are ''happier'' alone until the reach their late 30s/40s (On average) and they start to panick when they realise they have neglected family completely for a carreer.
Theres a reason in American (Stats) That women have now far-exceeded depression rates. They are the N1 consumer in anti-depression, and a lot comes to neglecting relationships.
So while women ''win'' early on in life, men tend to mature and win later in life is the general consensus.

If you want to believe in that or not is up to you...
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(Original post by CorporalJin)
Seems like you have flipped the statisctics completely and have no idea what your talking about.

80% of women are geting laid with 20% of the top men, meaning only the higher top guys are getting most of the action.
So instead of 70% its 20% darling... yeah talk about having your **** together more then ever as a dude...

This issue is not society, women, feminism
Actually... it is, its been proven when society becomes advanced the population decreases, women no longer need to find a partner to survive since society has reached a point where everyone is realistcally self-sufficient. Look Japan, Look at Western Europe...

Heres a graph of a well known study.

https://features.inside.com/content/.../young-men.png

Thats having no sex in a year, sure 70% of men are getting laid compared to 82% of women still, but im willing to bet my top dollar not as much/often as women. The Tinder/ Instagram experiments show that to..
One guy managing to get laid once a year, compared to a women that does it multiple times a month with different guys shows the 80/20 %... (Top guys bagging majority of women)
But then if this is the case, why do so many women want commitment from the 20% they’re having sex with?
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