Should the LGB split from the TQ+?

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JosephCiderBwoy
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Some argue the LGB have different issues to the T. Personally, as a gay man, since I know people of each of the four letters, and we coexist peacefully, I wouldn't like to see a complete divorce of LGB and T. That being said, our issues are objectively different. Luckily, I've grown up in the UK and had the exact same opportunities as my straight counterparts. That doesn't change the fact that in the past, LGB people fought to be recognised as legitimate and to blend into society like everyone else. I just don't see the same mindset in the T community, especially with big organisations referring to women as 'birthing people' or 'cervix-havers', and encouraging people to introduce 'their' pronouns when they state their name, or even being told we're 'cis'. I don't know. The struggles just seem too different. I just want that to be acknowledged and not brushed over.
This is how I feel about the term 'PoC' or 'BIPoC'. The binary of 'white' and 'PoC' is insulting to me, a mixed person, who, like everyone, has a unique background. Native Americans and black Africans are classed as 'PoC', yet their cultures are both different and incredibly rich. G and T may be 'LGBT', yet their struggles are undeniably different.
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neutralmilkff
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(Original post by JosephCiderBwoy)
Some argue the LGB have different issues to the T. Personally, as a gay man, since I know people of each of the four letters, and we coexist peacefully, I wouldn't like to see a complete divorce of LGB and T. That being said, our issues are objectively different. Luckily, I've grown up in the UK and had the exact same opportunities as my straight counterparts. That doesn't change the fact that in the past, LGB people fought to be recognised as legitimate and to blend into society like everyone else. I just don't see the same mindset in the T community, especially with big organisations referring to women as 'birthing people' or 'cervix-havers', and encouraging people to introduce 'their' pronouns when they state their name, or even being told we're 'cis'. I don't know. The struggles just seem too different. I just want that to be acknowledged and not brushed over.
This is how I feel about the term 'PoC' or 'BIPoC'. The binary of 'white' and 'PoC' is insulting to me, a mixed person, who, like everyone, has a unique background. Native Americans and black Africans are classed as 'PoC', yet their cultures are both different and incredibly rich. G and T may be 'LGBT', yet their struggles are undeniably different.
I think you’re really generalising trans people. Most of them wants to live a normal life, just because you saw some loud annoying ones online doesn’t mean majority is like that. I have no problem with stating my pronouns, I don’t see how it could hurt anyone??? Also trans people fought together with lgb throughout history so I don’t see why you’d like to exclude them.
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Rakas21
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Yes.

Speaking as a straight Conservative I have no issue with LGBA however the T+ element is made of up of a largely anti male, anti gender norm cohort intent on assaulting a status quo I support given that legal equality has been achieved.

So yes, I think that most Conservatives would be prepared to give you far more of what you want and exist far more cohesively if the movements parted company.
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SHallowvale
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No.

I don't think the issues are different. Gay rights activism didn't stop after homosexuality was legalised in the 60s, people continued fighting for better acceptance because at the time homosexuality was still frowned upon by most people. The same applies for the transgender community. What most transgender people want is to live a free and comfortable life and to be accepted by others. For that reason I think LGB people should stand in solidarity with transgender people, even if transgender acceptance doesn't affect them personally.

'Birthing people' and 'cervix-havers' debates really don't reflect the transgender community as a whole, rather just a minority.
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londonmyst
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What does the Q+ mean? :confused:
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by londonmyst)
What does the Q+ mean? :confused:
Queer and then ever other niche "identity"
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TCA2b
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Yes, long time ago.
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Gaddafi
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At the end of the day, a stable society is simply people just tolerating each other.

LGB is more tolerable and also tolerating (of others and coexistence.)

The issue with the trans brigade is that far too many of them reject any form of coexistence and have attempted to "cancel" and socially annihilate those who disagree with them (e.g JKR.)

I think the LGB folk would do well to separate themselves from people who wish to incite social upheaval.
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by SHallowvale)
No.

I don't think the issues are different.
I agree with this but for different reasons.

Women with penises, men with cervixes: these are no more absurd than the idea of gay marriage or abortion as a human right or indeed modern conceptions of "equality" .
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Gaddafi
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
I agree with this but for different reasons.

Women with penises, men with cervixes: these are no more absurd than the idea of gay marriage or abortion as a human right or indeed modern conceptions of "equality" .
Hmm. How so? I would say it's miles more absurd and I don't even support all the stuff you listed after.
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Moonlight Rain
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Just because you're suffering differently, doesn't mean you get to exclude trans people. Luckily for you, you haven't received homophobia but most lgbt people do. It is still very common in the uk... literally most kids use gay as an insult.
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Starship Trooper
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To the people saying that the L G B should split I would ask why exactly the T+ are too far but LGB aren't given that many of the things they dislike about the T+ community would have been said about them 100 years ago by virtually everyone?
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by Gaddafi)
Hmm. How so? I would say it's miles more absurd and I don't even support all the stuff you listed after.
For today yes . See above.

If you told a Victorian that one day men could get married to each other or that women could become men they'd probably think both were satanic and put you in a loony bin
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Women with penises, men with cervixes: these are no more absurd than the idea of gay marriage or abortion as a human right or indeed modern conceptions of "equality" .
Agreed, because none of those things are absurd to begin with.
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by SHallowvale)
Agreed, because none of those things are absurd to begin with.
Yes if you are a "progressive", nothing is absurd. It's all just quantum physics!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yAYPi0nqJ50
Last edited by Starship Trooper; 2 weeks ago
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TCA2b
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
To the people saying that the L G B should split I would ask why exactly the T+ are too far but LGB aren't given that many of the things they dislike about the T+ community would have been said about them 100 years ago by virtually everyone?
Nothing to do with that. It simply isn't a sexuality.
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by TCA2b)
Nothing to do with that.

It simply isn't a sexuality.
Why not?

How is it not?
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Yes if you are a "progressive", nothing is absurd. It's all just quantum physics!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yAYPi0nqJ50
Sorry, what relevance does this have? Have I said anything about quantum physics and transgender identities...?
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by Rakas21)
So yes, I think that most Conservatives would be prepared to give you far more of what you want and exist far more cohesively if the movements parted company.
For ten years tops, then when it becomes even more mainstream will "modernise" and kick out anyone who doesn't support trans surgery on the NHS. And the circle continue s

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TCA2b
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Why not?

How is it not?
One relates to what you're aroused to, the other relates to dissatisfaction with your body and arguably veers into body dysmorphia. Unless you're dealing with the fraction that is autogynephilic, they're not both linked to sexuality.
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