LLB or BA+conversion course help

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lifeishard123
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#1
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#1
hi guys, i have been planning to study law in a university for a quiet while but one of my tutors when he heard about that i want to study law he said me that if i do a degree in another subject in UNI and graduate i could then do a conversion course for a year, what should i do if so i have idea what to do if thats so because i chose my alevel subjects to be economics, business studies and english literature. and i have planned my perosnal statements too but idk what to do now and how to choose another subject to study in university. PLEASE HELP ME!!
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mnot
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#2
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#2
(Original post by lifeishard123)
hi guys, i have been planning to study law in a university for a quiet while but one of my tutors when he heard about that i want to study law he said me that if i do a degree in another subject in UNI and graduate i could then do a conversion course for a year, what should i do if so i have idea what to do if thats so because i chose my alevel subjects to be economics, business studies and english literature. and i have planned my perosnal statements too but idk what to do now and how to choose another subject to study in university. PLEASE HELP ME!!
To become a lawyer you can either do an LLB undergrad course or an alternative degree plus the conversion course.

The graduate market for law is very competitive and it's one of the few areas where going to a traditionally prestigious university is a significant advantage in the grad market, but the LLB courses at these unis are very competitive. If you have excellent grades and are likely to achieve As in A-levels then I would say you can just go do the LLB. If your grades are a mixed bag then the conversion course pathway through a stronger uni may be worth considering.
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Gmaster1980
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The conversion pathway is going away (ish). Its very unclear at the moment what the best course of action is and its going to heavily depend on what type of law you want to practice in the future.
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helvetia212
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Every firm is requiring non-law grads to still do a GDL, so nothing will functionally change.

Given how short the SQE prep courses are though, I would advise doing an LLB if you can get onto a good one.
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Gmaster1980
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(Original post by helvetia212)
Every firm is requiring non-law grads to still do a GDL, so nothing will functionally change.

Given how short the SQE prep courses are though, I would advise doing an LLB if you can get onto a good one.
Not everyone wants to be a commercial lawyer in private practice and that is the only place where this level of consistency of approach is currently found.
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helvetia212
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(Original post by Gmaster1980)
Not everyone wants to be a commercial lawyer in private practice and that is the only place where this level of consistency of approach is currently found.
Currently. To suggest it won't be the norm for any place capable of offering a TC is a bit dense, the city firms have just got ahead of things because their commercial position requires it. No firm is going to employ a trainee who has no formal legal training in the foundation subjects.
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Gmaster1980
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(Original post by helvetia212)
Currently. To suggest it won't be the norm for any place capable of offering a TC is a bit dense, the city firms have just got ahead of things because their commercial position requires it. No firm is going to employ a trainee who has no formal legal training in the foundation subjects.
You seem to have a fairly narrow idea of what constitutes the legal profession and are ignoring the changes to how qualification will work from this year onwards for anyone just starting uni. If OP wants to go into high street family law they will most likely not have to do a gdl.
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helvetia212
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#8
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(Original post by Gmaster1980)
You seem to have a fairly narrow idea of what constitutes the legal profession and are ignoring the changes to how qualification will work from this year onwards for anyone just starting uni. If OP wants to go into high street family law they will most likely not have to do a gdl.
You seem to have a pretty poor understanding of how a firm balances recruitment of trainees with financial expenditure and risk.

No firm, especially a high street firm incapable of absorbing the loss of a poor trainee, will take a trainee on without formal education in the foundation subjects. The SQE prep. courses simply don't provide that.
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artful_lounger
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Something to note is you don't even have to do the conversion course if you want to become a solicitor necessarily, you would take the SQE instead. You only need to do the conversion course to become a barrister.

If you are at all uncertain about your possible future in law I'd robably say do a different degree in something you're really passionate about - even if that thing isn't necessarily a professional course itself (e.g. classics, anthropology, palaeontology, planetary science, etc). Then pursue legal work experience on the course and see how it suits you. Law degrees are pretty dry I gather and also tend to have a relatively low first rate, so if you have other interests you want to pursue as well by all means go for those initially!

A law degree =/= a law career at the end of the day. Do the degree if you're interested in law as an academic discipline - if you just want to do it because you want to become a lawyer then it's not necessary and you can do another subject first and still pursue a career as a solicitor or barrister.
Last edited by artful_lounger; 8 months ago
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Gmaster1980
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#10
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#10
(Original post by helvetia212)
You seem to have a pretty poor understanding of how a firm balances recruitment of trainees with financial expenditure and risk.

No firm, especially a high street firm incapable of absorbing the loss of a poor trainee, will take a trainee on without formal education in the foundation subjects. The SQE prep. courses simply don't provide that.
Don't see why you feel the need to be insulting, especially when what you're saying doesn't have any basis in reality. We simply don't know how things will shake out. Do you even have a TC?
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helvetia212
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#11
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(Original post by Gmaster1980)
Don't see why you feel the need to be insulting, especially when what you're saying doesn't have any basis in reality. We simply don't know how things will shake out. Do you even have a TC?
I've been qualified for a while now.

You're suggesting that the recruitment landscape, already massively oversubscribed with sub-par undergraduates, will change from the current status quo to a paradigm where the barrier to entry is lower. I am saying that this simply won't be the case because it makes no logical sense.

No firm, especially any firm that is more financially exposed (so high street shops with a tiny partnership), would willingly lower their recruitment standards. It makes zero business sense, and it is why a candidate that has passed the SQE without some form of formal training in the foundation subjects will be seen as a sub-standard candidate.

OP I agree with the advice above wrt taking a different degree if you consider it will give you a better outcome, but be aware that following the GDL (if you seek a training contract) you will immediately have to transfer that knowledge to a short SQE prep course, followed by a difficult multiple-choice exam. If you have any issues with the GDL at all there will be very little time to remedy things, so this is something to consider. FWIW 1st rates at the decent unis range between 20-25% for LLBs, which isn't bad at all.
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Joleee
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#12
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if you've never studied law/not passionate about academic law i would suggest doing another degree because to law firms it hardly matters the subject (within reason; like i doubt you could study media or music and still compete with other applicants trying to work in law); what does matter is your degree classification and that you've graduated from a semi decent university along with all the work experience you've had. imo do another degree and something that you are confident you can achieve a good grade in because law notoriously hands out fewer first class degrees than other subjects and if you go to a semi decent uni it takes a lot(!!) more effort to achieve one because of all the reading and research, analysis and memorisation you must do to prove yourself. i love it but literally not worth it unless you want to learn academic law and be a slave to the law library :nah:

yeah you probably will have to do the PGDL before your SQE exams so you can pass said exams, but better to do that than achieve an average LLB if you could've graduated with a better PPL or PPE degree for example and had an easier university life. jmho
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lifeishard123
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#13
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#13
(Original post by Gmaster1980)
The conversion pathway is going away (ish). Its very unclear at the moment what the best course of action is and its going to heavily depend on what type of law you want to practice in the future.
Hi yh i would like to practice criminal
Law
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lifeishard123
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#14
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#14
(Original post by mnot)
To become a lawyer you can either do an LLB undergrad course or an alternative degree plus the conversion course.

The graduate market for law is very competitive and it's one of the few areas where going to a traditionally prestigious university is a significant advantage in the grad market, but the LLB courses at these unis are very competitive. If you have excellent grades and are likely to achieve As in A-levels then I would say you can just go do the LLB. If your grades are a mixed bag then the conversion course pathway through a stronger uni may be worth considering.
Thank you
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lifeishard123
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#15
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#15
(Original post by helvetia212)
Every firm is requiring non-law grads to still do a GDL, so nothing will functionally change.

Given how short the SQE prep courses are though, I would advise doing an LLB if you can get onto a good one.
What are good universities to do an LLB in ur opinion
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lifeishard123
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#16
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(Original post by artful_lounger)
Something to note is you don't even have to do the conversion course if you want to become a solicitor necessarily, you would take the SQE instead. You only need to do the conversion course to become a barrister.

If you are at all uncertain about your possible future in law I'd robably say do a different degree in something you're really passionate about - even if that thing isn't necessarily a professional course itself (e.g. classics, anthropology, palaeontology, planetary science, etc). Then pursue legal work experience on the course and see how it suits you. Law degrees are pretty dry I gather and also tend to have a relatively low first rate, so if you have other interests you want to pursue as well by all means go for those initially!

A law degree =/= a law career at the end of the day. Do the degree if you're interested in law as an academic discipline - if you just want to do it because you want to become a lawyer then it's not necessary and you can do another subject first and still pursue a career as a solicitor or barrister.
I love law and i am so interested mainly criminal law if thats a thing, but if i do aanother degree what course can i do with these subjects (business studies, economics and english literature). I am a tad bit scared tho because i feel
Like it will
Be hadd
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lifeishard123
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#17
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#17
(Original post by helvetia212)
I've been qualified for a while now.

You're suggesting that the recruitment landscape, already massively oversubscribed with sub-par undergraduates, will change from the current status quo to a paradigm where the barrier to entry is lower. I am saying that this simply won't be the case because it makes no logical sense.

No firm, especially any firm that is more financially exposed (so high street shops with a tiny partnership), would willingly lower their recruitment standards. It makes zero business sense, and it is why a candidate that has passed the SQE without some form of formal training in the foundation subjects will be seen as a sub-standard candidate.

OP I agree with the advice above wrt taking a different degree if you consider it will give you a better outcome, but be aware that following the GDL (if you seek a training contract) you will immediately have to transfer that knowledge to a short SQE prep course, followed by a difficult multiple-choice exam. If you have any issues with the GDL at all there will be very little time to remedy things, so this is something to consider. FWIW 1st rates at the decent unis range between 20-25% for LLBs, which isn't bad at all.
Alright thank you!
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lifeishard123
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#18
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#18
(Original post by Joleee)
if you've never studied law/not passionate about academic law i would suggest doing another degree because to law firms it hardly matters the subject (within reason; like i doubt you could study media or music and still compete with other applicants trying to work in law); what does matter is your degree classification and that you've graduated from a semi decent university along with all the work experience you've had. imo do another degree and something that you are confident you can achieve a good grade in because law notoriously hands out fewer first class degrees than other subjects and if you go to a semi decent uni it takes a lot(!!) more effort to achieve one because of all the reading and research, analysis and memorisation you must do to prove yourself. i love it but literally not worth it unless you want to learn academic law and be a slave to the law library :nah:

yeah you probably will have to do the PGDL before your SQE exams so you can pass said exams, but better to do that than achieve an average LLB if you could've graduated with a better PPL or PPE degree for example and had an easier university life. jmho
What university did u attend if u dont mind me asking? And if i do like a conversion i have no idea what to choose as course to do in uni with the subjects economics, english lit and business studies, i have no idea about a course coz it was my ultimate goal to study law in uni but am slightly terrified.
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lifeishard123
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#19
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#19
Also they say that you must do LNAT before applying to university
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artful_lounger
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#20
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#20
(Original post by lifeishard123)
I love law and i am so interested mainly criminal law if thats a thing, but if i do aanother degree what course can i do with these subjects (business studies, economics and english literature). I am a tad bit scared tho because i feel
Like it will
Be hadd
Most humanities and social sciences degrees - few have any required subjects at A-level. It's probably easiest to identify those you wouldn't be able to apply to: economics and PPE degrees normally require A-level Maths though so are likely to be an option, most psychology degrees require on STEM subject, and history degrees normally require A-level History. Some but not all geography degrees require the A-level (but about half do not), and most language degrees prefer at least some language at A-level (but not necessarily the target language). Anything else, from egyptology to sociology to anthropoogy to classics to development studies to philosophy would all be possible options!

The bigger potential issue is that you are taking the combination of business studies and economics, which some universities do not like (and some will not consider applicants with those two subjects as part of a combination of just three A-levels. Therefore for law or anything else, you'll need to check to make sure they will consider someone with business studies and economics (some like LSE won't normally for example).

Note that not all law degrees require the LNAT.
Last edited by artful_lounger; 8 months ago
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