Tory MP wants people that use terms like "white privilege" to be referred to PREVENT

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Starship Trooper
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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b1935308.html

And it's a big agree from me.

If you spout this sort of anti white hatred you should really be on some sort of list.

Hopefully Prime Minister Patel makes him education secretary in the future.
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Starship Trooper
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Very based
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Gaddafi
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Outside of the classroom there should be no lists. None at all. If people want to spend their days talking about "white privilege" or how Conservatives are scum, then they shouldn't be prevented from doing so. Likewise if I want to give a Mosque sermon about how homosexuality and transgenderism is satanic and how the alphabet brigade will burn in hell, I shouldn't be prevented from doing that either.

Society has became far too weak. I suppose the left started it though.

In terms of schools I agree though. The education system should be politically neutral, that the fact that it is too left wing needs correcting.
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sufys12
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(Original post by Gaddafi)
Outside of the classroom there should be no lists. None at all. If people want to spend their days talking about "white privilege" or how Conservatives are scum, then they shouldn't be prevented from doing so. Likewise if I want to give a Mosque sermon about how homosexuality and transgenderism is satanic and how the alphabet brigade will burn in hell, I shouldn't be prevented from doing that either.

Society has became far too weak. I suppose the left started it though.

In terms of schools I agree though. The education system should be politically neutral, that the fact that it is too left wing needs correcting.
PRSOM
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by Gaddafi)
Outside of the classroom there should be no lists. None at all. If people want to spend their days talking about "white privilege" or how Conservatives are scum, then they shouldn't be prevented from doing so. Likewise if I want to give a Mosque sermon about how homosexuality and transgenderism is satanic and how the alphabet brigade will burn in hell, I shouldn't be prevented from doing that either.
TLDR version: I'll support their right to free speech but when they support mine (ie never). Not doing so makes you essentially a Cuck.

Longer version
In theory I sympathize with you. In practice however I completely disagree with you.

Remember we live in a world where trillion dollar corporations can censor and discriminate against anyone to the right of Ed Miliband but a small independent bakery can get sued into poverty for not being woke enough.

As I've talked to you about before- the weakness in society came about partly through libertarianism. If you're trying to seize power collectivism is far stronger than collectivism. It's amusing that your average pink haired obese sjw has a far greater inherent understanding of power than many dorky conservatives.
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TCA2b
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
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Very based
It's the only way to put this into terms they'll understand. What we're seeing play out is the long march through the institutions, i.e. communist revolution through alternative means.
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hotpud
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(Original post by Gaddafi)
In terms of schools I agree though. The education system should be politically neutral, that the fact that it is too left wing needs correcting.
How is education too left wing? Are the practices of differentiation, inclusion, equality and equity built into the teaching standards a bit too much for those on the right who would feel more comfortable building a high wall with those who deserve and those who do not on opposing sides?
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Gaddafi
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
TLDR version: I'll support their right to free speech but when they support mine (ie never). Not doing so makes you essentially a Cuck.

Longer version
In theory I sympathize with you. In practice however I completely disagree with you.

Remember we live in a world where trillion dollar corporations can censor and discriminate against anyone to the right of Ed Miliband but a small independent bakery can get sued into poverty for not being woke enough.

As I've talked to you about before- the weakness in society came about partly through libertarianism. If you're trying to seize power collectivism is far stronger than collectivism. It's amusing that your average pink haired obese sjw has a far greater inherent understanding of power than many dorky conservatives.
Well I agree that if they don't respect other people's free speech they shouldn't get it either. I don't think people should get rights that I'm not getting.

I think there is an obvious difference in how we should be treating corporations and small businesses. Small and Medium businesses should be able to discriminate (e.g with the cake issue) as you can just go to the one down the road instead. Large corporations need to treated differently so everyone get's the right to free speech.

Regarding your last point, collectivism isn't going to work for socially conservative values in the UK. This society is too far gone. I'd be surprised if you're even allowed to be socially conservative in 20 years time (one of the main reasons I'm considering emigrating.)


(Original post by hotpud)
How is education too left wing? Are the practices of differentiation, inclusion, equality and equity built into the teaching standards a bit too much for those on the right who would feel more comfortable building a high wall with those who deserve and those who do not on opposing sides?
I and other people who are socially conservative in their private lives, aren't in favour of drag queens and LGBTQ propogandists coming into schools. I am not in favour of my kids being taught the wokist gender theory. I am not in favour of the witch hunts that we've seen, such as the Miller scandal at Bristol university or ones regarding people expressing "unfashionable" views on transgenderism.

The left is in favour of these. Schools have these things and are therefor too leftist.

I therefore propose not talking about these things altogether. IE being politically neutral. It is the refusal of leftist zealots to compromise that is fueling this culture war.
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by Gaddafi)
I think there is an obvious difference in how we should be treating corporations and small businesses. Small and Medium businesses should be able to discriminate (e.g with the cake issue) as you can just go to the one down the road instead. Large corporations need to treated differently so everyone get's the right to free speech.

Regarding your last point, collectivism isn't going to work for socially conservative values in the UK. This society is too far gone. I'd be surprised if you're even allowed to be socially conservative in 20 years time (one of the main reasons I'm considering emigrating.)
Completely agree. That is what should be happening but isn't so this needs to be corrected even if this may violate the general "don't tread on me" libertarian priors.

It will/ have to, so long as we are pragmatic and intelligent about it. Things looked equally hopeless if not worse in the USSR and other places throughout history.

Reality is on our side no matter how many people are indoctrinated.
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hotpud
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(Original post by Gaddafi)
I don't think people should get rights that I'm not getting.
That's really interesting. And what about rights you get but other people don't get e.g. the right not to be discriminated against by a small cake shop? You would be ok because by the sounds of it you are quite happy (in the name of free speech of course) to discriminate against someone based on their sexuality, race or gender.

But on the other hand you don't like the idea of being discriminated against yourself such that you might lose out. So which is it? Do we all have the same rights not to be discriminated against or do we go back to an era of no blacks, Irish or dogs?
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by hotpud)
Are the practices of differentiation, inclusion, equality and equity built into the teaching standards a bit too much for those on the right who would feel more comfortable building a high wall with those who deserve and those who do not on opposing sides?
Do you mean merit?
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by hotpud)
That's really interesting. And what about rights you get but other people don't get e.g. the right not to be discriminated against by a small cake shop? You would be ok because by the sounds of it you are quite happy (in the name of free speech of course) to discriminate against someone based on their sexuality, race or gender.

But on the other hand you don't like the idea of being discriminated against yourself such that you might lose out. So which is it? Do we all have the same rights not to be discriminated against or do we go back to an era of no blacks, Irish or dogs?
On the discrimination front

Private businesses and individuals should be able to employ whoever they want. Period.

If they don't want to employ me because of my race or religion or whatever I have no problem with that.

Right now businesses AND the public sector are allowed to discriminate, but only against my particular demographic.
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TCA2b
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
On the discrimination front

Private businesses and individuals should be able to employ whoever they want. Period.

If they don't want to employ me because of my race or religion or whatever I have no problem with that.

Right now businesses AND the public sector are allowed to discriminate, but only against my particular demographic.
It's called equity, sweetie. It's ok when we do it based on made up nonsense.

:groovy:
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ROTL94
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Tremendous.
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gjd800
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Prevent is already a waste of time as it is
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Gaddafi
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(Original post by hotpud)
That's really interesting. And what about rights you get but other people don't get e.g. the right not to be discriminated against by a small cake shop? You would be ok because by the sounds of it you are quite happy (in the name of free speech of course) to discriminate against someone based on their sexuality, race or gender.

But on the other hand you don't like the idea of being discriminated against yourself such that you might lose out. So which is it? Do we all have the same rights not to be discriminated against or do we go back to an era of no blacks, Irish or dogs?
I'm not sure how you find it interesting but okay. If a cake shop refused to serve me, I'd move on and go elsewhere. Gays are welcome to set up shops and discriminate against straights if they'd like.

Now, I'll be honest in that I've almost never been refused service. I have witnessed one occasion though.

Me and my old man were refused service at a gun store in 2002. 9/11 had happened just months ago and this owner did not want to sell my father guns+ammunition (I was a fairly young boy at the time and he was taking me hunting.) We just went to another store in our county and after going through the procedures they sold it to him no problem.

I believe it was up the owner of that store whether he wished to sell the items. In terms of wider society it wasn't a problem as there wasn't a monopoly on firearms, just like there isn't some monopoly on cake (the gay couple could easily have went to another store rather then being difficult.)

As long as you aren't some baron of your industry, you should have the right to serve who you'd like.
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londonmyst
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Wonderful entertainment and a great soundbite for phrase five of the culture wars: 'war on woke'.:clap2:
Sounds almost as hilarious as Michael Howard's election pledge to have a police officer sniffing at the heels of every illegal narcotics consumer and chasing each & every dealer to their doorstep like a bloodhound.
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by londonmyst)
Wonderful entertainment and a great soundbite for phrase five of the culture wars: 'war on woke'.:clap2:
Sounds almost as hilarious as Michael Howard's election pledge to have a police officer sniffing at the heels of every illegal narcotics consumer and chasing each & every dealer to their doorstep like a bloodhound.
Well actions speak louder than words of course and as we know the Tories seldom deliver on their tough talk.

That said we are in very different times to what was then Blair at the height of his power.

Trump was president. Boris is PM with an eighty seat majority. We've left the EU and the Taliban has taken back Afghanistan.

I'm cautiously optimistic.
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SHallowvale
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Such a ridiculous idea, goes to show how clueless this MP is. Even if we assumed that the term "white privilege" were racist (which I don't believe it is) Prevent is about preventing violent extremism, not just racism.
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HansLuben
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Those promoting the Climate Change cult should also be referred.
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