Zemmour: France's new potential "far right" presidential candiadate

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Trinculo
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#41
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Given that the great god of EUphiles, Michel Barnier is running for the French presidency on an anti-immigration ticket, I find this all hilarious.

France has always been ultra-nationalist. It's just that people will always make excuses for them because Britain=bad. The French have been voting national front in the millions for generations. But of course, it's Brexit and the rise of the far-right that has only just happened.
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Napp
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#42
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
How?

I mean I don't agree with his hostility too Iran and don't support his assassination of solemani , but I wouldn't say anything he did was war mongering- esp in the context of US presidents. Trump for all his rhetoric was practically a pacifist in comparison. .
I was more referring to his comments about trying to Nuke North Korea, well, and Iran for that matter. The fact he reinstated Americas war on Iran, furthered the war ibn Syria and capitulated to the Taliban do not stand in his favour in my book, he might not have been as bad as some of his predecessors in foreign policy but he certainly wasnt good. The one thing i'll give him credit for was trying to mend relations with Russia and squish China.
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Napp
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#43
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
No I said that he tailors his delivery to his audience. Most of what we are seeing is what he is choosing to project to some degree.
Eg look at some of his interviews from before 2010.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y4CqF4hjCGI
Tbh they werent much better..
How did Biden use to be a good politician? I mean he supported along with Clinton the tough crime bills that they've later denounced and apologized for.
Solid centrist who could work across the isle and not a partisan priock like most of them these days
Which crime bill was this?
Trump didn't mock dead servicemen unless you count John McCain. Where did Trump threaten to nuke North Korea? Trump's foreign policy rhetoric is very interesting but it was effective.
I do, i was more referring to his mocking silver star families and the like though (or whatever theyre called). Do you not remember his 'fire and fury' speach?
In what way was it effective? He achieved nothing with it? DPRK forged ahead with its programme, Iran ramped up its nuclear plan because of him and.. well, everything else was just as successful.
Consider: people like peace prize winner Obama droned endlessly about Human Rights, peace etc and then you have Trump saying he'll basically commit war crimes if anyone messes with America. Now who started more wars and killed more innocent civilians? Obama by a landslide.
I'm not sure what your point is? I never said anything about Obama?
Trump's policy of "peace through strength" a core tenet of realism worked, where as the liberal utopianism doesn't. Opposition to trump's rhetoric is largely virtue signallism writ large.
Where was that his foreign policy? Assuming he acxtually had one (i rather doubt he's familiar with realism, neo realism or any other foreign policy dimension for that matter) as to worked, see above.
It might be in some cases, my opposition to it is simply because its moronic and not in any interest aside from his own. It certainly wasnt good for Britain or the world..
As for the president automattically being part of the establishment. I think for the first time no. I think the sort of "establishment" that liberals fantasize about died in the 60s with Nixon.
Can you expand on that?
Trump appointments- I think you're half right. I think there are a number of things you have to take into context for 2016 Trump and I think he is half to blame

- first of all a large segment of the republican political machine hated Trump and an even larger segment also didn't like Trump but wanted to use him.

Just like Corbyn, where there are many similar parallels, trump had a party management problem where many career people activity despised and wanted to sabotage the (popular with grassroots leader). People don't want career politicians from eton etc but then act annoyed when newcomers like Trump come in and don't fully understand all the levers of power.

It's one thing to seize power in the executive, but unless you have a a network of dedicated facilitstors you are fighting a uphill battle in many cases. However Trump does not have this excuse anymore as there are now plenty of Trumpist personnel which there wasn't then...
How half right? After all his appointments speak for themselves, they were little more than cronyism at its most blatent. At least with Corbyn he had some actual moral standing/convictions behind his actions.. Trump, however, decidedly did not. He appointed friends and family to key positions of power like a feudal lord to enrich himself and others (look at his abuse of air force one and using his hotels)

People might well no9t want toffee nosed tosspots as politicians, they do however tend to want someone who is predictable and will look after their interests. Trump decidedly does not meet either of those criteria. He screwed farmers, gave false hope to coal miners, before screwing them, went after the poor by trying to take away their medical care and so on.
Again, not everything was bad, if most of it, im still fully behind his Russia policy, even if it was frustrated at every turn by Democrats and the GOP, but his attewmpt to eradicate CRT and anything similar was a good move. Eqwually, his attempt to remove the quasi-domestic terrorists that constitute 'antifa' (such as its actually a group) have some good bits to them. Somerwhat undermined by his support of football hooligan types but hey ho.
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Starship Trooper
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#44
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(Original post by Napp)
I was more referring to his comments about trying to Nuke North Korea, well, and Iran for that matter. The fact he reinstated Americas war on Iran, furthered the war ibn Syria and capitulated to the Taliban do not stand in his favour in my book, he might not have been as bad as some of his predecessors in foreign policy but he certainly wasnt good. The one thing i'll give him credit for was trying to mend relations with Russia and squish China.
He never said he would nuke anyone. He said something along the lines of IF they attacked America or US soldiers he would hit them very hard. Trump even visited NK and met Kim

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What war on Iran? He put on sanctions and that assassination (which I disagree with).

How did he further the war in Syria? Blowing up an old abandoned airfield? Really designed to deter Turkey iirc. Trump said Assad should stay remember to the horor of every one.

How did Trump capitulate to the Taliban? Or do you think they should have stayed there for twenty years.

Funnily enough I don't agree with all of his anti China positions. He should have been far harder on silicon valley than Huawei and tik tok
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Napp
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
He never said he would nuke anyone. He said something along the lines of IF they attacked America or US soldiers he would hit them very hard. Trump even visited NK and met Kim
thats the samer thing..
As to meeting him, thats not something in his favor?

What war on Iran? He put on sanctions and that assassination (which I disagree with).
An economic war.. there being no other way to describe it
How did he further the war in Syria? Blowing up an old abandoned airfield? Really designed to deter Turkey iirc. Trump said Assad should stay remember to the horor of every one.
By keeping troops in Syria and continuing to occupy the oil fields etc.
How did Trump capitulate to the Taliban? Or do you think they should have stayed there for twenty years.
What else would you call surrendering to them?
Funnily enough I don't agree with all of his anti China positions. He should have been far harder on silicon valley than Huawei and tik tok
Probably, i more meant the Chinese state than Chinese companies though
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Starship Trooper
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#46
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(Original post by Napp)
Which crime bill was this?

I do, i was more referring to his mocking silver star families and the like though (or whatever theyre called). Do you not remember his 'fire and fury' speach?
In what way was it effective? He achieved nothing with it? DPRK forged ahead with its programme, Iran ramped up its nuclear plan because of him and.. well, everything else was just as successful.

I'm not sure what your point is? I never said anything about Obama?

Where was that his foreign policy? Assuming he acxtually had one (i rather doubt he's familiar with realism, neo realism or any other foreign policy dimension for that matter) as to worked, see above.
It might be in some cases, my opposition to it is simply because its moronic and not in any interest aside from his own. It certainly wasnt good for Britain or the world..

Can you expand on that?

How half right? After all his appointments speak for themselves, they were little more than cronyism at its most blatent. At least with Corbyn he had some actual moral standing/convictions behind his actions.. Trump, however, decidedly did not. He appointed friends and family to key positions of power like a feudal lord to enrich himself and others (look at his abuse of air force one and using his hotels)

People might well no9t want toffee nosed tosspots as politicians, they do however tend to want someone who is predictable and will look after their interests. Trump decidedly does not meet either of those criteria. He screwed farmers, gave false hope to coal miners, before screwing them, went after the poor by trying to take away their medical care and so on.
Again, not everything was bad, if most of it, im still fully behind his Russia policy, even if it was frustrated at every turn by Democrats and the GOP, but his attewmpt to eradicate CRT and anything similar was a good move. Eqwually, his attempt to remove the quasi-domestic terrorists that constitute 'antifa' (such as its actually a group) have some good bits to them. Somerwhat undermined by his support of football hooligan types but hey ho.
The Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act 1994. IIRC that's what kamala Harris attached Biden with during the dem debate (hilarious considering her own record!) . You're right, Biden was actually pretty right wing until his late seventies when he decided he was actually woke.

So he didn't mock dead service men, but the parents of one after they criticised him. I mean, big deal?

I think considering the context of the times Trump did well, far better than his predecessors and successors did or eiujd have done,- if your point is that's not saying much, then fair enough.

My point is that liberals (not necessarily you) appear to me to be more concerned by rhetoric rather than actions. If you think Trump is a war monger you must think Bush and Obama are genocidal lunatics.

No I don't think Trump is a scholar of Waltz or Thucydides- but I think he does operate on a I guess crude version of realism which is just basic common sense really. Why should the US pay for troops to be based in Germany? Why does the US need to have bases everywhere? The best way to secure peace us through a overly overly powerful military and threaten overwhelming force to deter foes.

Well it wasn't meant to be good for Britain or the world- that's the whole point of America First.

I was making the point that leftists think that the people on control of society are like this cliche of racist usually Southern white men smoking cigars in boardrooms. Whereas instead it's people with pronouns in their bio- case in point who support BLM - eg SIR Keir Starmer

I agree Trump should not have employed his family. That said Trump is I think the first modern president to be a millionaire before he became president and has actually lost money since. Again my point is in 2016 he did not have the options to employ people that he does now. Trump should have hired a kiss of dedicated Trumpist policy wonks and experts but aside from a few people (eg Stephen miller) they weren't there. My point isn't that Trump is blameless but that for reasons I can go into in further detail are Inevitable to an outsider candidate.

Farmers:
https://theconversation.com/most-us-...ovid-19-146535

Coal miners I'll give you to an extent.
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Starship Trooper
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#47
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(Original post by Napp)
thats the samer thing..
As to meeting him, thats not something in his favor?

An economic war.. there being no other way to describe it

By keeping troops in Syria and continuing to occupy the oil fields etc.

What else would you call surrendering to them?
Uh no it's not. There's a big difference between you saying you're going to stab me and you saying that if I hurt your friends, you'll do something very bad to me. How is meeting Kim a bad thing and shows he wants to nuke NK???

So not an actual war then. I mean I agree with you that it's wrong though.

I don't think that's "furthering" war in Syria- they weren't in any position to do anything about it

How did Trump surrender to the Taliban? He basically said we're leaving at this time, if you attack us at any point whilst we're still here we're going to bomb the **** out of you. And they didn't fir eighteen months. The deal was fine. It's not Trumps fault that milley and Biden are blindingly incompetent. All they had to do was take all their gear and personnel and go after several months in office to prepare.
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mondays child
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#48
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Looking at the opinion polls he does seem to be gaining ground, even before the televised debates.
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