Nobel Prize: We will not have gender or ethnicity quotas - top scientist

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Napp
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He has a good point, why o0n earth would having genda quotas be of any good here? By all means more women need to be represented in the sciences but that is a problem for the schools and universities. Giving nobel prizes, especially ones that havent been corrupted like the peace prize, to people simply because theyre female, as opposed to male, seems ridiculous. The whole point of the prize is to reward outstanding work in the sciences not to pander to peoples genitals. So long as its not being actively biassed towards men, where there is nothing to say it is, i see no issue with the current way its awarded..

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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-58875152
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Lucifer323
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(Original post by Napp)
He has a good point, why o0n earth would having genda quotas be of any good here? By all means more women need to be represented in the sciences but that is a problem for the schools and universities. Giving nobel prizes, especially ones that havent been corrupted like the peace prize, to people simply because theyre female, as opposed to male, seems ridiculous. The whole point of the prize is to reward outstanding work in the sciences not to pander to peoples genitals. So long as its not being actively biassed towards men, where there is nothing to say it is, i see no issue with the current way its awarded..

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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-58875152
Take the title of this thread

"We will not have gender or ethnicity quotas"

And now apply this everywhere in life.
Prizes, merits, grants, appointments, scholarships, job offers, all but all must be made on the basis of merits only.

However we all know that in life this isn't always true. The interference of politics and political correctness has an impact on all the above mentioned. This is an extension of my argument to 04MR17 who asked me once why politics should not interfere in science, or in any other aspect of life I will add.

The answer is pretty obvious I think.
Last edited by Lucifer323; 5 days ago
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Starship Trooper
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Oh they will do most certainly unless there is a significant change in culture soon.
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Lucifer323
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Oh they will do most certainly unless there is a significant change in culture soon.
The politicalisation of science as we have discussed on numerous cases. And the influence of politics in every aspect of life.
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by Lucifer323)
The politicalisation of science as we have discussed on numerous cases. And the influence of politics in every aspect of life.
Was that a question???
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Lucifer323
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Was that a question???
Nope. I obviously agree with you that gender and ethnicity quotas would be the case unless something dramatic happens or a change in culture. The political correctness and certain politics seem to be everywhere and influence everything.
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by Lucifer323)
Nope. I obviously agree with you that gender and ethnicity quotas would be the case unless something dramatic happens or a change in culture. The political correctness and certain politics seem to be everywhere and influence everything.
The truth is (and this triggers a lot of people) that everything is actually "political".

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Unless you have something on which to base an objective reality and morality on (which is the function God plays)- other attempts have been tried notably communism but have proven far less successful.
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04MR17
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(Original post by Napp)
He has a good point, why o0n earth would having genda quotas be of any good here? By all means more women need to be represented in the sciences but that is a problem for the schools and universities. Giving nobel prizes, especially ones that havent been corrupted like the peace prize, to people simply because theyre female, as opposed to male, seems ridiculous. The whole point of the prize is to reward outstanding work in the sciences not to pander to peoples genitals. So long as its not being actively biassed towards men, where there is nothing to say it is, i see no issue with the current way its awarded..

'
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-58875152
Why is it a problem for schools?
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Napp
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(Original post by 04MR17)
Why is it a problem for schools?
Where do you think people chose to persue their caREERS, IN THIS CASE THE SCIENCES? iF THERE IS A LACK OF WOMEN IN THE SCIENCES IT EVIDENTLY BEGINS THERE...
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04MR17
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(Original post by Napp)
Where do you think people chose to persue their caREERS, IN THIS CASE THE SCIENCES? iF THERE IS A LACK OF WOMEN IN THE SCIENCES IT EVIDENTLY BEGINS THERE...
Firstly I assume the caps lock was an error because those block capitals are not necessary.

I'd find it hard to lay all the blame in schools when it's exam boards that set the curriculum at KS4. So the GCSE syllabuses that elevate Darwin, Jenner, Newton, perhaps should also celebrate female scientists. Though I do recall learning about Rosalind Franklin and Jane Goodall too.

I would also raise the point that a child's perception of the scientific industry is not formed in school but in exposure from the media. Stories about scientific breakthroughs and discoveries need to feature women for young girls to believe that women are the people that do science. One of the most coveree scientific news stories is the winner of the Nobel prizes.

So sure, there is a role for schools to play in this. But you cannot lay the blame entirely at the door of schools here.
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Napp
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(Original post by 04MR17)
Firstly I assume the caps lock was an error because those block capitals are not necessary.

I'd find it hard to lay all the blame in schools when it's exam boards that set the curriculum at KS4. So the GCSE syllabuses that elevate Darwin, Jenner, Newton, perhaps should also celebrate female scientists. Though I do recall learning about Rosalind Franklin and Jane Goodall too.

I would also raise the point that a child's perception of the scientific industry is not formed in school but in exposure from the media. Stories about scientific breakthroughs and discoveries need to feature women for young girls to believe that women are the people that do science. One of the most coveree scientific news stories is the winner of the Nobel prizes.

So sure, there is a role for schools to play in this. But you cannot lay the blame entirely at the door of schools here.
Indeed they were, i just couldnt be bothered to retype the whole thing :lol:

My simple response is i never laid the blame entirely at the doors of schools in the first place, nor did i infer such...
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imlikeahermit
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(Original post by 04MR17)
Firstly I assume the caps lock was an error because those block capitals are not necessary.

I'd find it hard to lay all the blame in schools when it's exam boards that set the curriculum at KS4. So the GCSE syllabuses that elevate Darwin, Jenner, Newton, perhaps should also celebrate female scientists. Though I do recall learning about Rosalind Franklin and Jane Goodall too.

I would also raise the point that a child's perception of the scientific industry is not formed in school but in exposure from the media. Stories about scientific breakthroughs and discoveries need to feature women for young girls to believe that women are the people that do science. One of the most coveree scientific news stories is the winner of the Nobel prizes.

So sure, there is a role for schools to play in this. But you cannot lay the blame entirely at the door of schools here.
Surely, the 75% of teachers in schools that are women could point these young girls towards science, or are you willing to overlook that gender statistic in order to get your point across? We shouldn’t have to actively promote women or men. As always, the best person for the job; or the most successful should be celebrated, not based on gender or race.
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04MR17
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Surely, the 75% of teachers in schools that are women could point these young girls towards science, or are you willing to overlook that gender statistic in order to get your point across? We shouldn’t have to actively promote women or men. As always, the best person for the job; or the most successful should be celebrated, not based on gender or race.
Only if it can be accommodated by the scheme of work agreed by Headteachers (64%).

I agree, we shouldn't have to live in a world where we need to actively promote groups of people to tackle prejudice. Hopefully the prejudice will go soon enough so that the practice ends.
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Lucifer323
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(Original post by 04MR17)
Only if it can be accommodated by the scheme of work agreed by Headteachers (64%).

I agree, we shouldn't have to live in a world where we need to actively promote groups of people to tackle prejudice. Hopefully the prejudice will go soon enough so that the practice ends.
One comment here.
If you go to London let's say and visit Imperial College and specifically the Department of Physics. It won't take you long to realise that vast majority of students are staff are male. A simple observation it's all it takes if you spend just one day going around the Department and possibly attend some lectures. There are women in the Department but far less than men.

Do you think in this case there is some prejudice against women or something else is going on?

Possibly the question I am asking has already been answered partially by others here.
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imlikeahermit
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(Original post by Lucifer323)
One comment here.
If you go to London let's say and visit Imperial College and specifically the Department of Physics. It won't take you long to realise that vast majority of students are staff are male. A simple observation it's all it takes if you spend just one day going around the Department and possibly attend some lectures. There are women in the Department but far less than men.

Do you think in this case there is some prejudice against women or something else is going on?

Possibly the question I am asking has already been answered partially by others here.
And if you wander round the vast majority of state schools the staff will be made up almost entirely of women. What’s your point? I don’t have an issue with that.
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04MR17
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(Original post by Lucifer323)
One comment here.
If you go to London let's say and visit Imperial College and specifically the Department of Physics. It won't take you long to realise that vast majority of students are staff are male. A simple observation it's all it takes if you spend just one day going around the Department and possibly attend some lectures. There are women in the Department but far less than men.

Do you think in this case there is some prejudice against women or something else is going on?

Possibly the question I am asking has already been answered partially by others here.
There might be prejudice involved, I don't know. I'd say this is the result of several overlapping things "going on".
I do know that physics on the whole is one of the worst for gender balances. The law of probability at the moment is that the majority of secondary phase science teachers are female and specialise in Biology.
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Lucifer323
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
And if you wander round the vast majority of state schools the staff will be made up almost entirely of women. What’s your point? I don’t have an issue with that.
Some professions seem to be encouraged for males and discouraged for females and vice versa. Example: the one I gave you above.
And another example what you have given me however I will put more emphasis on primary schools where it's very unlikely that you see male teachers.

Is it due to prejudice as discussed above.
Is it due to the discouragement in schools where let's female students are not encouraged to follow specific professions
Inability males & females have to perform on some professions

Or a combination of all the above and other factors?
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caravaggio2
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Look up the Nordic Gender Paradox.
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The RAR
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(Original post by 04MR17)
There might be prejudice involved, I don't know. I'd say this is the result of several overlapping things "going on".
I do know that physics on the whole is one of the worst for gender balances. The law of probability at the moment is that the majority of secondary phase science teachers are female and specialise in Biology.
There is literally no prejudice involved. Females are often more emotional than males, so females are more likely to peruse fields that are based more on emotions such as the humanities.
If a woman wants to be a writer let her, if a woman wants to be an astronaut let her. There is no need to crush other people's dreams just to fill in woke agendas.
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04MR17
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(Original post by The RAR)
There is literally no prejudice involved. Females are often more emotional than males, so females are more likely to peruse fields that are based more on emotions such as the humanities.
If a woman wants to be a writer let her, if a woman wants to be an astronaut let her. There is no need to crush other people's dreams just to fill in woke agendas.
Thank you for your opinion, since that is all I am reading here. I indicated nothing about crushed dreams or agendas.
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