Comprehensive or Grammar? Watch

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Sasuke!
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#21
Report Thread starter 14 years ago
#21
after looking at what people have said i think that the reason that comprehensives are so low is bacuse of the other people who have achieved lower where as grammar have eliminated them from the school. i mean most of the people in my classes could have very easily gone to grammar, and i dont know why they didnt i mean i kinda wish i went ther but didnt realise you didnt have to pay until it was too alte!!1
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yawn
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#22
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#22
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
Perhaps I should have gone to a comp then

To be honest, I think it's just down to the student. They should go to the school they want to go to.

Out of interest, how do they decide who is in the top 5% of the ability range?
You are so modest!

The trouble with saying it's down to the student is that the student is not always making an informed decision. At the age of 10 no child has the maturity to decide whether they want to go to a selective or non-selective school. It is much more a case of where their parents want them to go or where their friends are going. The older student post key stage 4 often perceives that they will do better at a grammar - this is not the case - it depends on whether they are borderline, averagely bright or a high flyer.

Assessment on whether a pupil comes within the parameter of top 5% is based on results of cognitive ability tests which all schools (both primary and secondary) carry out during the years of the pupils education. Both verbal and non-verbal tests are administered, mostly without the pupil realising what they are (at primary level.) When the child moves up into secondary there is usually a test carried out either during 'orientation' preparation for transer or shortly after transfer. The results of this can determine which 'set' a child will be placed in initially.

At my school further cognitive ability tests are administered in Year 9 and Year 11 (Yellis test.)

Parents and children are not told the results of these tests as the knowledge of the results could alter their perception of what can be achieved. I have known of kids whose parents have arranged for them to take private IQ tests. When results are not high the kids think 'what's the point of even trying' - when results are very high - 'I don't need to work hard because I'm cleverer than anyone else around me'.

Your school management team will know exactly what you should be capable of - doesn't mean you'll necessarily achieve it though - there has to be application as well as ability.
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#23
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#23
(Original post by yawn)

At my school further cognitive ability tests are administered in Year 9 and Year 11 (Yellis test.)

...to take private IQ tests. When results are not high the kids think 'what's the point of even trying' - when results are very high - 'I don't need to work hard because I'm cleverer than anyone else around me'.

Your school management team will know exactly what you should be capable of - doesn't mean you'll necessarily achieve it though - there has to be application as well as ability.

Yellis, IQ tests? huh; personally i find they suck. How can you judge peoples intelligence from a bunch of tests!!!??!? I'm crap at IQ tests and i always get a different IQ, with an average of like 97, lol. And i don't think i'm thick, but my mind works different to other people, and i find that i don't do as well in IQ tests as in maths tests etc.

anyone else have no faith in IQ tests?

phil
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AT82
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#24
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#24
(Original post by Phil23)
Yellis, IQ tests? huh; personally i find they suck. How can you judge peoples intelligence from a bunch of tests!!!??!? I'm crap at IQ tests and i always get a different IQ, with an average of like 97, lol. And i don't think i'm thick, but my mind works different to other people, and i find that i don't do as well in IQ tests as in maths tests etc.

anyone else have no faith in IQ tests?

phil
According to one IQ test I did my IQ is low that I should be locked up in a mental home. How come then I got the highest mark in college? I got amongst the highest marks in my school and I am above average in university? I come I got a lucrative part time job?

IQs tests are a very unreliable measure of intelligence and even more unreliable for measuring how a person may perform in a grammar school.
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kellywood_5
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#25
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#25
(Original post by vmong)
after looking at what people have said i think that the reason that comprehensives are so low is bacuse of the other people who have achieved lower where as grammar have eliminated them from the school. i mean most of the people in my classes could have very easily gone to grammar, and i dont know why they didnt i mean i kinda wish i went ther but didnt realise you didnt have to pay until it was too alte!!1
I could have gone to a grammar school as I passed my 11+, but I went to an average comprehensive and am still there for sixth form. I think, as someone else said, it was more a case of my parents not wanting me to go there because you can't really make a decision like that yourself at the age of 11. I'm not sure why they didn't want me to go to a grammar though....
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Laura2k5
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#26
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#26
I have been at comprehensive schools all my life and do not feel that i have lost out in anyway because of this. I was given all the help and support i needed by my school and my present college does the same.

i feel it is up to the student themselves to decided what their attitude to school and learning is. just because they are at a grammar school doesn't automatically mean they will do better than if they were at a comp or vice versa. if a student has it in them and is prepared to work whatever school they go to will maximise their potential.
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Profesh
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#27
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#27
I was well aware at the age of 11 that, were I to reject the offer of a place at Pate's, I would live to regret it. I haven't looked back since.
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jag_jatt
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#28
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#28
its all down to the individual and their desire to suceed.

(simple :rolleyes: )

I have experienced private and state education. State was by far the superior as it made you think and gain important life skills. Private spoon feeds you 24/7 and once you leave - your on your own. State prepares you for the 'real world'. Private shields you from the 'real world' and then throws you in blind folded.
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Sasuke!
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#29
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#29
another problem/dilemma that i have been worrying about and my friends are starting to notice that i seem "depressed" this may sound extreme but i am really worried about uni, mainly about what course that i will do. many people have told me to do what you enjoy most" but its not just as simple as that. many of my friends are also not sure but they seem fine. whenever im not on my own i begin to think about it and get myself annoyed!!! any advice for a sam boy like me?

oh and i am doing Maths, Biology, Chemistry and Economics
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smallthoms
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#30
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#30
(Original post by vmong)
another problem/dilemma that i have been worrying about and my friends are starting to notice that i seem "depressed" this may sound extreme but i am really worried about uni, mainly about what course that i will do. many people have told me to do what you enjoy most" but its not just as simple as that. many of my friends are also not sure but they seem fine. whenever im not on my own i begin to think about it and get myself annoyed!!! any advice for a sam boy like me?

oh and i am doing Maths, Biology, Chemistry and Economics
I'm glad that somebody else has the same problem as me.
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ChemistBoy
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#31
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#31
(Original post by vmong)
another problem/dilemma that i have been worrying about and my friends are starting to notice that i seem "depressed" this may sound extreme but i am really worried about uni, mainly about what course that i will do. many people have told me to do what you enjoy most" but its not just as simple as that. many of my friends are also not sure but they seem fine. whenever im not on my own i begin to think about it and get myself annoyed!!! any advice for a sam boy like me?

oh and i am doing Maths, Biology, Chemistry and Economics
DO CHEMISTRY!!!! YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO.
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skagirl
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#32
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#32
(Original post by vmong)
does it really matter where one goes to school?
no prizes for guessing which one you're at!!
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Niaya
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#33
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#33
i dont think it makes that much of a differnce i personal know people who have suffered as a result of going to a grammer school as they cared about the grades so much they were nearly doing the cw for her and she flunked her exams cos she hadnt actually learnt anything. im clever and i'll get good grades i dont think my grades will be worse than people at grammer schools
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john !!
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#34
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#34
any sources on comrehensive Vs grammar schools? in terms of GCSE grades?
I am trying to compare private and public sector firms and need evidence

reps given if you want some...
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yawn
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#35
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#35
(Original post by mik1w)
any sources on comrehensive Vs grammar schools? in terms of GCSE grades?
I am trying to compare private and public sector firms and need evidence

reps given if you want some...
You can't compare comps and grammars on the basis on GCSE grades.

The intake of comps covers all ability ranges so their GCSE grades will include those of students who will be in the lower 25%, the middle 50% and the top 25% (that last group will not necessarily have many from the top 25% as they may have been 'creamed' off by competing grammar schools in the area.) If say 60% of their students get 5 A*-C grades we would assume that all the top 25% got the five plus 35% of the middle group.

GCSE results from grammars will be obtained only by the top 25% as that is the only students who are admitted to grammars. Even so not many of the grammars get all their student obtaining 5 A*-C grades which you would expect.

I'll just have a browse of the internet and see if there are any websites that do a comparison between comps and grammars, but you must realise that true comparisons can only be made if you are comparing 'like with like'.

Here's a link to the Campaign for State Education organisation discussing the merits of both non-selective and selective schools with references to their sources - which you could use to get more information.

http://www.casenet.org.uk/jess.html

Bear in mind that whatever sources you look at there will inevitably be some bias!
ProvenAngel
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#36
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#36
I'm in a grammar sixth form, but i was always in a comprehensive before hand. I love it, tho i cant help but feel the pressure at times. Now i feel everyone else is better than me. Still tho, Id agree it is v much down to who u are as an individual and ur level of motivation that determines how well u do. I can be sooooo slow at times that i feel my brain has stopped, but i have always worked hard, whether at a grammar or comprehensive.

Btw vmong, be a vet!
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brett
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#37
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#37
Grammar schools are definatly better :P
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ProvenAngel
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#38
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#38
(Original post by brett)
Grammar schools are definatly better :P
Gotta be said, in my personal experience, i'd agree
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faa
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#39
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#39
I think that everybody should note- there are two types of grammar schools-

1) "Pure Grammars"
2) Private Grammars

The first type is a grammar school still run by the government. Im in Kent and i know we have them, im not sure what the other two or three counties are that have them. But i do know that most counties had to get rid of them due to the government in the past.

The second type of grammar schools are the grammar schools in other counties (besides kent) that still wanted to remain selective. Therefore they turned private.

Versus comprehensive i would have to say that (in my opinion, as ive only been to grammar and private) it would appear that in a Comprehensive you are more likely to get lumped with people that dont want to learn. Im not saying that in grammars everyone wants to learn, but most do. Comprehensives have to cater for everyone, including those who have no desire to get jobs and live off the state benefits.

There are some comprehensives that are really good though! I must admit when i was at grammar there were some people there that i could hardly believe passed the 11+ !!!
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faa
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#40
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#40
(Original post by faa)
I think that everybody should note- there are two types of grammar schools-

1) "Pure Grammars"
2) Private Grammars

The first type is a grammar school still run by the government. Im in Kent and i know we have them, im not sure what the other two or three counties are that have them. But i do know that most counties had to get rid of them due to the government in the past.

The second type of grammar schools are the grammar schools in other counties (besides kent) that still wanted to remain selective. Therefore they turned private.

Versus comprehensive i would have to say that (in my opinion, as ive only been to grammar and private) it would appear that in a Comprehensive you are more likely to get lumped with people that dont want to learn. Im not saying that in grammars everyone wants to learn, but most do. Comprehensives have to cater for everyone, including those who have no desire to get jobs and live off the state benefits.

There are some comprehensives that are really good though! I must admit when i was at grammar there were some people there that i could hardly believe passed the 11+ !!!
Sorry ive just seen that link, its not counties, its LEA's that decided upon Grammars.
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