caravaggio2
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#1
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#1
He dropped an interesting tweet this week.
He talked about how he hoped at COP26 governments will agree to tackle Coal, Cash and Cars.
Coal and cars ok. I can see how they are a problem for the climate, but why cash?
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SoonToBeExpat
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#2
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#2
Digital Currency - easy to control (and restrict). I don't buy the argument (excuse the pun) of physical cash being an environmental detriment. if anything, it is probably one of the most rescued, looked after, long living + recycled manufacred materials ever. Yes people complained that the new bank notes were made from polymer... I don't see many littered in the streets or in the oceans mind you.
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imlikeahermit
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#3
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#3
(Original post by SoonToBeExpat)
Digital Currency - easy to control (and restrict). I don't buy the argument (excuse the pun) of physical cash being an environmental detriment. if anything, it is probably one of the most rescued, looked after, long living + recycled manufacred materials ever. Yes people complained that the new bank notes were made from polymer... I don't see many littered in the streets or in the oceans mind you.
I don’t understand it either. Compared to what China are doing trifling over a few fivers seems utterly unbelievable.
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Rakas21
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#4
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#4
Boris is referring to banking and how non green investment currently attracts investment with impunity, not physical cash.

He's also got a good point here actually.
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SoonToBeExpat
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#5
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#5
(Original post by Rakas21)
Boris is referring to banking and how non green investment currently attracts investment with impunity, not physical cash.

He's also got a good point here actually.
If that's what he actually means then that's alright. But I'm not a fan of a cashless society.
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Rakas21
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#6
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#6
(Original post by SoonToBeExpat)
If that's what he actually means then that's alright. But I'm not a fan of a cashless society.
A cashless society completely is still a few decades away completely due to the number of pensioners with poor digital skills however the advent of Apple/Google Pay has decimated cash transactions speeding up the process.
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Napp
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#7
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#7
Ironic given how destruyctive digital currencies are for the planet - the amount of power they require is mind boggling. But then again, governments like controlling people and what better way than this?
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SoonToBeExpat
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#8
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#8
Still I've never really understood why it's so popular. Over reliance on digital systems is a dangerous step to make - the internet is a fragile system prone to interference. A few undersea cables cut, bandwidth is suddenly hugely reduced - imagine the chaos that would ensue and the economic dammage. Now factor in a digital currency system being taken offline...
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Just my opinion
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#9
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#9
(Original post by Rakas21)
Boris is referring to banking and how non green investment currently attracts investment with impunity, not physical cash.

He's also got a good point here actually.
If he had meant banking he would have said banking. He specifically said cash and afaik nobody has picked him up on it.
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Rakas21
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#10
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#10
(Original post by Just my opinion)
If he had meant banking he would have said banking. He specifically said cash and afaik nobody has picked him up on it.
Sky News and Bloomberg were discussing the topic of divestment in favour of green investment extensively. It was also mentioned by the Guardian and Telegraph.
Last edited by Rakas21; 3 weeks ago
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tazarooni89
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#11
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#11
I just think digital currency is much more convenient than paper cash.

For example:
- If you have cash in your wallet and you end up losing your wallet, you've lost all that cash too.
- Someone is more likely to try and mug you in the street if they think you're carrying cash
- It's much easier to track digital payments for the purpose of preventing fraud, money laundering etc.
- It's much easier to counterfeit cash than digital currency
- It's not possible to spend cash online without physically going and depositing it in your bank first
- You don't earn any interest on savings that you're just holding in physical cash
- A cashless society prevents traders from accepting cash only (which is usually a method for tax evasion), and also prevents you from having to go round looking for an ATM when there might not be one nearby

I'd be interested to hear what people think the advantages of cash might be compared to digital currency. It seems rather primitive to me.
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SHallowvale
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#12
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#12
(Original post by tazarooni89)
I just think digital currency is much more convenient than paper cash.

For example:
- If you have cash in your wallet and you end up losing your wallet, you've lost all that cash too.
- Someone is more likely to try and mug you in the street if they think you're carrying cash
- It's much easier to track digital payments for the purpose of preventing fraud, money laundering etc.
- It's much easier to counterfeit cash than digital currency
- It's not possible to spend cash online without physically going and depositing it in your bank first
- You don't earn any interest on savings that you're just holding in physical cash
- A cashless society prevents traders from accepting cash only (which is usually a method for tax evasion), and also prevents you from having to go round looking for an ATM when there might not be one nearby

I'd be interested to hear what people think the advantages of cash might be compared to digital currency. It seems rather primitive to me.
The only non-conspiratorial argument I've heard against a cashless society is that it makes it harder / impossible for people to donate spare change.
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tazarooni89
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#13
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#13
(Original post by SHallowvale)
The only non-conspiratorial argument I've heard against a cashless society is that it makes it harder / impossible for people to donate spare change.
Yes, that thought did cross my mind actually. And certainly today, it's hard to imagine donating change to a homeless person via a digital medium.

Though I would envisage that in a fully cashless society we'd have a way round that, whereas at the moment we don't really have the need for one because cash does still exist. But the more cashless we become, the more we find that people who traditionally wouldn't take digital payments (e.g. buskers, big issue sellers) are now starting to do so (e.g. via contactless machines).

For a cashless society to function at all, it would need to be straightforward for any person, no matter who they are (homeless person, young child, or anyone else) to get set up with some kind of free digital wallet so they can accept and spend money. I guess we're yet to decide how that would actually work in practice though.
Last edited by tazarooni89; 3 weeks ago
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mondays child
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#14
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#14
I don't think Mr Johnson was talking about cash as in cash v electronic payment. He would probably prefer given his love of Latin for denarii to return.
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Fullofsurprises
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#15
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#15
(Original post by Rakas21)
Boris is referring to banking and how non green investment currently attracts investment with impunity, not physical cash.

He's also got a good point here actually.
It's great that banking and the way banking supports CO2 emitters is now sharply coming into focus.

I was also pleased that the Big Oil corporations were not simply waved into the proceedings as if they do no wrong. At the moment, they continue to spend far more on greenwashing than they do on really getting to grips with hard science and manufacturing research into alternatives and clear plans to decarbonise fuels.
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hotpud
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#16
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#16
(Original post by caravaggio2)
He dropped an interesting tweet this week.
He talked about how he hoped at COP26 governments will agree to tackle Coal, Cash and Cars.
Coal and cars ok. I can see how they are a problem for the climate, but why cash?
Bitcoin is hugely energy intensive. They reckon it uses the equivalent of around the same power as Switzerland. Or, it is about taxation and the idea that some industries see little or no taxation whilst others are taxed to the hilt. But ultimately I am as baffled as you. But then in my eyes the man hasn't spoken a word of sense ever since he became PM. Maybe that is why so many love him.
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Rakas21
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#17
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#17
(Original post by hotpud)
Bitcoin is hugely energy intensive. They reckon it uses the equivalent of around the same power as Switzerland. Or, it is about taxation and the idea that some industries see little or no taxation whilst others are taxed to the hilt. But ultimately I am as baffled as you. But then in my eyes the man hasn't spoken a word of sense ever since he became PM. Maybe that is why so many love him.
While I forget the specifics other crypto like Etherium is planning to switch to a model which should use around 1% of the energy. If it works we will likely see Bitcoin follow suit.
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caravaggio2
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#18
Report Thread starter 3 weeks ago
#18
It crossed my mind that if we had a cashless society the government could easily say what and how you spend your money as they have found in china where it is done for mostly political reasons. Here it would be done for Green agenda reasons.
Think of the things that the government want you to give up or vastly reduce. At the moment they would find it almost impossible to control you but in a cashless society with only digital currency it would be easy for them.
If you went to buy diesel or petrol they could easily set a limit how much a person is allowed and stop you buying more than your allowance.
Set a limit to how much meat you can buy? Impossible now but easy when we are digital and cashless
Limit how may cigarettes can you buy to consume
Limit how much alcohol
When and where you are allowed to travel. All easily done for reasons to reduce global warming.
He didnt say banking. If he had meant banking he would have said banking. He said cars cash and coal.
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hotpud
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#19
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#19
(Original post by Rakas21)
While I forget the specifics other crypto like Etherium is planning to switch to a model which should use around 1% of the energy. If it works we will likely see Bitcoin follow suit.
I don't really know how Bitcoin could be more eco friendly. Creating new Bitcoin is effectively relies on guessing a number that happens to have the correct number of zeros at the start of it. The more guesses you have the bigger the chance of getting a coin. How you can do that using less energy I would be very interested to see.
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Fullofsurprises
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#20
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#20
(Original post by Rakas21)
While I forget the specifics other crypto like Etherium is planning to switch to a model which should use around 1% of the energy. If it works we will likely see Bitcoin follow suit.
Hadn't heard that, any idea how?

I don't think much of the crypto to replace central bank currencies theory.
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