mondays child
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#21
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#21
Fairness I don't think is the issue. Exams are too often seen as dumbed down or not as hard as say 30 years ago. I wonder if extra time helps perpetuate that view.
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Talkative Toad
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#22
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#22
(Original post by Muttley79)
Extra time is there to make a level playing field - would you rather people got lower results even though they are as good ss you? It is not easy to get additional time ...
Some people fake the test (i.e do poorly on purpose) in order to get extra time or the school may give it out all willy nilly but other than that I agree. Extra is there for people like me to be on a level playing field with everyone else, it is not there for me to have an advantage (only 1 subject whereby I didn't use the extra time at GCSE and/or gave me an advantage).
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Muttley79
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#23
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#23
(Original post by Talkative Toad)
Some people fake the test (i.e do poorly on purpose) in order to get extra time or the school may give it out all willy nilly but other than that I agree. Extra is there for people like me to be on a level playing field with everyone else, it is not there for me to have an advantage (only 1 subject whereby I didn't use the extra time at GCSE and/or gave me an advantage).
What 'test'? A school test isn't sufficient evidence - I've been a SENCo so know what is involved.
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Talkative Toad
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#24
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#24
(Original post by Muttley79)
What 'test'? A school test isn't sufficient evidence - I've been a SENCo so know what is involved.
The assessment you do to see/prove whether you're eligible for special access arrangements or not. Some people fake it (write poorly on purpose, read poorly on purpose etc) in order to get special access arrangements and shame on those people who do it.
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Muttley79
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#25
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#25
(Original post by Talkative Toad)
The assessment you do to see/prove whether you're eligible for special access arrangements or not. Some people fake it (write poorly on purpose, read poorly on purpose etc) in order to get special access arrangements and shame on those people who do it.
That is not enough evidence for additional time ...
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alma_beu
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#26
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#26
(Original post by Muttley79)
That's not proof - if you were exams officer then you colluded in abusing the system in ONE school. Please don't assume other schools are the same ...
This!!!! I will be getting extra-time in my next exams because of two chronic physiological conditions. If I just took my own experience I’d argue 100% of people with extra time have it because of a physical disability. That’s why anecdotal evidence shouldn’t be used!
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Talkative Toad
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#27
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#27
(Original post by Muttley79)
What 'test'? A school test isn't sufficient evidence - I've been a SENCo so know what is involved.
Should see other threads on this topic whereby people are complaining about the fact that people in their school are faking their writing and reading abilities on purpose on the assessment in order to get special access arrangements.

As EOData says schools are inconsistent. Some people have had to provide tons of evidence to prove that they should be/are entitled to special access arrangements (so it was very hard for then to get them) in some other schools they aren't as robust and simply give it out willy nilly (after doing the assessment without asking for any proof of their disablilty).

(Original post by Muttley79)
That is not enough evidence for additional time ...
You're right it isn't but some schools seem to believe otherwise so that's the problem. Hence why I disagree with the idea that it's always hard to get.
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Gaddafi
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#28
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#28
I'm very badly dyslexic (but I've learnt to manage it over the years) and have bad ADHD and I wasn't even diagnosed till I left school.

My school didn't even recognise these things and just told people to get on with it. (My teacher used to slap me on the back of the head for making the same spelling mistake twice.)

If kids these days are getting diagnosed then that's honestly great and OP needs to be less harsh towards others IMO.
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EOData
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#29
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#29
(Original post by Muttley79)
I assume you can prove these statements?
I have a lot of first hand experience of access arrangements and have seen some very dodgy practice. I'm not saying that there doesn't need to be some form of accommodation for people who are not 'typical', I'm just saying that the system is widely abused and misused.

A few examples (and I have many others):
  • Child tested by a suitably qualified person in school and is not assessed as needing any access arrangements. The mother then pays for a private assessment which finds the child needs 50% extra time and a scribe.
  • Student arrives in 6th form saying they'd had 25% extra time in all their GCSEs. On investigation, the original application was only for MFL listening as the student had impaired hearing but the school had allowed this for all GCSEs. Parents then push for it to continue as it had become his 'normal way of working'.
  • Student completes GCSEs without any AA, getting a range of grades 7-9. Teachers have not noticed any difficulties. Mother pushes to get student assessed in Y12 and assessment recommends a scribe and 50% extra time,
  • Student has been given 25% extra time at GCSE owing to a diagnosis of Raynaud's. Given that exams are in the summer (when the student's hands looked pink and healthy) this seemed odd to me as a Raynaud's sufferer.
  • Student gets 25% extra time for being diabetic. Rest breaks are an obvious need, but why extra time?
  • Student with MS is given rest breaks and 25% extra time in case his condition flares up during exams. He uses extensive rest breaks and all his extra time in every exam. Despite having average size handwriting he fills significantly more pages than any other candidate and gets 4 A* at A level with extremely high marks.. (This is a tricky one - other kids are undoubtedly better off not having MS and not being able to do this, but he did abuse the system).

Often students with extra time write significantly more than others. I accept this doesn't necessarily get them more marks, but it suggests they may not need all the time..
Last edited by EOData; 1 week ago
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Muttley79
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#30
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#30
(Original post by EOData)
I have a lot of first hand experience of access arrangements and have seen some very dodgy practice. I'm not saying that there doesn't need to be some form of accommodation for people who are not 'typical', I'm just saying that the system is widely abused and misused.

A few examples (and I have many others):


Often students with extra time write significantly more than others. I accept this doesn't necessarily get them more marks, but it suggests they may not need all the time..
So your school did not apply the requirements fairly? I'd remove your admission ...
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EOData
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#31
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#31
(Original post by Muttley79)
That's not proof - if you were exams officer then you colluded in abusing the system in ONE school. Please don't assume other schools are the same ...
I didn't say it was proof, but it is pretty compelling evidence. I'm not saying invisible disabilities aren't valid, just that you cant see them by looking at someone. And how is what I put got anything to do with colluding in abusing the system?

A lot of my experiences are seeing the access arrangements people had at feeder schools.
Last edited by EOData; 1 week ago
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Muttley79
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#32
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#32
(Original post by EOData)
I didn't say it was proof, but it is pretty compelling evidence. I'm not saying invisible disabilities aren't valid, just that you cant see them by looking at someone.

A lot of my experiences are seeing the access arrangements people had at feeder schools.
KS2 test arrangements are checked by the local authority... your examples weren't KS2 anyway. I'd stop digging if I were you as you are implicating yourself and your school.
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Talkative Toad
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#33
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#33
(Original post by Gaddafi)
I'm very badly dyslexic (but I've learnt to manage it over the years) and have bad ADHD and I wasn't even diagnosed till I left school.

My school didn't even recognise these things and just told people to get on with it. (My teacher used to slap me on the back of the head for making the same spelling mistake twice.)

If kids these days are getting diagnosed then that's honestly great and OP needs to be less harsh towards others IMO.
Agreed. Wondering whether the OP has extra time or not.
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EOData
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#34
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#34
(Original post by Muttley79)
So your school did not apply the requirements fairly? I'd remove your admission ...
I don't believe there's a school in the country (yours included) that is 100% fair on access arrangements, partly because it is not entirely possible to determine what fair is - I'm convinced people do game the system but also some kids slip through the net and fail to be given the help they need. At times my school has sought advice from the LA or exam boards, but it's hard to prove a student cheated on these tests and so they are given the benefit of the doubt.
Last edited by EOData; 1 week ago
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Sabertooth
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#35
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#35
As a university lecturer said to me once: "you don't get extra time in the real world".
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EOData
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#36
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#36
(Original post by Muttley79)
That is not enough evidence for additional time ...
It is very easy to qualify for extra time, I'm not going to say how on a student forum but I've submitted a lot of applications and the bar is not that high in some areas.
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Muttley79
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#37
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#37
(Original post by Sabertooth)
As a university lecturer said to me once: "you don't get extra time in the real world".
You do if you have sensible employers - everyone is entitled to adjustments. I've taught with a blind teacher who had a full-time assistant.
Last edited by Muttley79; 6 days ago
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Muttley79
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#38
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#38
(Original post by EOData)
It is
Stop then if you dont believe a student deserves it - the schools I know play fair.
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EOData
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#39
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#39
(Original post by Muttley79)
Stop then if you dont believe a student deserves it - the schools I know play fair.
Ultimately it's the SENCo's call and not mine and because of that, they now submit the applications.

I don't believe any school is perfect and always gets it right - life is messy and there is just too much going on for people to get everything right all of the time, and I can't understand how anyone could think it was.
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alma_beu
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#40
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#40
First of all, very disrespectful calling people with extra time ‘people who are not ‘typical’’. You might not consider this offensive but I promise you that many disabled people do.

Also, how do a students’ past achievements in any way discredit their need for extra time?

I’ve scored well in all my exams the last two years without extra time, yet I’ve now been told I should’ve been entitled to the additional time.

Getting an A* doesn’t mean I shouldn’t get extra time, it means that I’ve had to put in more work than the average student and getting additional time would only level the playing field between me and people who don’t need extra time.
Last edited by alma_beu; 6 days ago
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