EOData
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#41
Report 1 week ago
#41
(Original post by alma_beu)
First of all, very disrespectful calling people with extra time ‘people who are not ‘typical’’. You might not consider this offensive but I promise you that many disabled people do.

Also, how do a students past achieve in any way discredit their need for extra time?

I’ve scored well in all my exams the last two years without extra time, yet I’ve now been told I should’ve been entitled to the additional time.

Getting an A* doesn’t mean I shouldn’t get extra time, it means that I’ve had to put in more work than the average student and getting additional time would only level the playing field between me and people who don’t need extra time.
I'm sorry you found 'not typical' offensive, I was trying to find a way of expressing the fact that these people could not demonstrate their full potential in a typical exam setting and so needed atypical arrangements. It wasn't meant to be offensive, it's not as though there's anything wrong with not being typical, but what could I have put that would not have offended you?

50% extra time is a rarely awarded arrangement for those with really significant additional needs. In the case I mentioned the student gained scores that put them in the bottom 0.1% of the national ability range. It is hard to accept that these were valid scores for a student getting significantly better than average GCSE results.
Last edited by EOData; 6 days ago
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cbrr
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#42
Report Thread starter 6 days ago
#42
(Original post by Muttley79)
Extra time is there to make a level playing field - would you rather people got lower results even though they are as good ss you? It is not easy to get additional time ...
hey! thanks for replying btw. theres a lot of extra time people, but as i've seen further down yeah they probs won't get in the actual exams which isn't comforting or like concerns me at all, but I think that those who abuse, yes very little people, extra time won't get to which is like where I see the unfairness.
'a level playing field' is a brilliant way of putting extra time and it makes so much sense, but for some cases, during these mocks, it's kinda flipping the field... it's incredibly easy to get extra time at my school, in fact it's known by extra time people to mark more early on in the test saying thats where they finished / would have finished if they were following the actual time frame... which isn't right as they're lying about where they got up to...

when i said, very controversially, about extra time being unfair, I wasn't, and i thought I made it clear, that I wasn't referring to everyone.

(Original post by 0ptics)
You’re worrying about disadvantage yet call those who abuse the advantage “idiots”? Sure hope you can see how small of a issue (relative to the entirety of the UK) we’re talking about. In fact, this small issue gets smaller when those who ‘abuse’ the extra time still get low grades.
thanks for replying!! I'm not worrying at all, it effects me little and I'm enjoying being opinionated about something for ages, I stand by saying those who abuse extra time are idiots, they don't care and multiple of them are perfectly capable of producing the same amount of work than me in exams but get given extra time for a range of dumb reasons... one of my personal favourites is this person who loves neat handwriting, they don't care about school and is constantly pitied for absolutely nothing at all. I'd be incorrect to say that they brag about their benefits at school, but they make it clear they don't believe they need the extra time but are happy to take it... Idk if that makes all that sense but, again, I'm saying that this isn't everyone.

(Original post by skylark2)
Getting extra time isn't based on whether someone cares or not, it's based on whether they have a diagnosed medical condition which means that they need extra time to give them a fair chance. That might be because it takes them longer than others to read and process information, or because it takes them longer than others to physically produce their answers. I know someone who got extra time for their GCSEs because they broke their dominant hand the week before so had to write everything with their wrong hand, the alternative being a scribe who they had almost no time to get used to working with. Pretty sure they'd much rather have had neither the broken hand nor the extra time.

When it comes down to it, someone who doesn't care will get a crap mark whether they have two hours to stare at questions they haven't revised for or three.
hey!! thanks for replying. 'diagnosed medical condition' isn't really what my school uses because, although I don't know everything about everyone, I know multiple people who have just been given extra time for whatever made up reason in the hope that because they've used it for their entire GCSEs, they should be by default able to have it in their actual GCSEs, in fact thats the argument one of my SLT used for using for giving some chromebooks rather than writing, arguing to the exam boards that thats their default way of writing so they can use it in exams.
Going to a 'mean' perspective here... If people can't process information as quick, it doesn't mean they should get extra at all, it means they just aren't as mentally intelligent which is pretty much the reason FOR exams, to test how quick students can answer questions so that people, eg. colleges and employers, understand the mental capacity at which their applicants work..?
Circling back to 'a level playing field', what's level about two people with different intelligence and quick thinking? it literally undermines the whole point of exams in my opinions, right? I don't understand... (PS. NOT REFFERING TO EVERYONE HERE)

(Original post by CatInTheCorner)
Precisely, I'm disabled and don't get extra time, even though I need it. It isn't up for OP, who is not in these people's lives, nor knows their circumstances, to judge them. I seem able bodied, but I'm not, OP would think I'm cheating when I leave the exam room to take a break. Don't assume, OP :closedeyes:
You should defo talk to your school's learning department, if you need it they should at least test u right? Because I agree that people with disabilities, that obviously aren't always visible, should get access arrangements such as extra time.

(Original post by usernamechange11)
i get extra time and i have autism. i wouldnt see why it concerns you if someone gets extra time. idk about your school but not just anyone gets extra time. the ones i know that get extra time in my school usually have disabilities and mental conditions. i'd say dont assume if someone needs extra time or not. what you should understand is it isnt just given to anyone. those 'idiots' may have hidden disabilities and conditions that you arent aware of. i find it weird people assume others dont need extra time, as if you'd know who's permitted. focus on yourself same way they are focusing on themselves. the exam boards have very strict regulations for who is eligible for extra time. evidence from a properly certified professional, such as physicians, educational psychologists, or occupational therapists, is required. there must also be evidence that you would be disadvantaged if you were not given more time. good luck with your mocks, maybe focus more on revising than on your peers getting additional time.
thanks for replying!! <3 Uhhh.... ooo! For a lot of cases, I'm not guessing.. I know because most of them admit it. I am fully aware of hidden disabilities, and for those cases, for sure I definitely agree that there is need for access arrangements. when I refer to 'idiots' I'm not referring to those with hidden disabilities!! as I'm not referring to all those with extra time. Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT ableist.
thanks for the luck!! I've finished most of my exams now, thats why I haven't replied sooner because, I was focusing on myself, and if you have mocks coming up or have already gone, I hope they've gone well! <3



thanks for everyone replying!! I love to hear all sides of this argument and it has helped me to take a different view towards this!! <33
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0ptics
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#43
Report 6 days ago
#43
(Original post by cbrr)
thanks for replying!! I'm not worrying at all, it effects me little and I'm enjoying being opinionated about something for ages, I stand by saying those who abuse extra time are idiots, they don't care and multiple of them are perfectly capable of producing the same amount of work than me in exams but get given extra time for a range of dumb reasons... one of my personal favourites is this person who loves neat handwriting, they don't care about school and is constantly pitied for absolutely nothing at all. I'd be incorrect to say that they brag about their benefits at school, but they make it clear they don't believe they need the extra time but are happy to take it... Idk if that makes all that sense but, again, I'm saying that this isn't everyone.
Fair enough. I do have to agree that something as opinionated as this can get interesting.
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skylark2
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#44
Report 6 days ago
#44
(Original post by cbrr)
Going to a 'mean' perspective here... If people can't process information as quick, it doesn't mean they should get extra at all, it means they just aren't as mentally intelligent which is pretty much the reason FOR exams, to test how quick students can answer questions so that people, eg. colleges and employers, understand the mental capacity at which their applicants work..?
Circling back to 'a level playing field', what's level about two people with different intelligence and quick thinking? it literally undermines the whole point of exams in my opinions, right? I don't understand... (PS. NOT REFFERING TO EVERYONE HERE)
No, people processing information in one particular form more slowly doesn't mean they are less intelligent. It might mean they have very poor eyesight and have to decipher the paper with a magnifying glass, that's always going to be far slower than being able to glance at it and take it straight in. It might mean they are dyslexic - you might argue that if they struggle to read they should get lower marks in English exams, but does it also mean they should get lower marks in every subject where exams involve reading written questions? The idea is to give them enough extra time to equalise out the amount of time they have to answer the questions, instead of them effectively having less time because getting to the point of thinking about answering the question takes them so much longer. Nobody should have extra time if the point of the exam is to measure question answering speed, but there are no GCSEs like that.

If you'd asked this two years ago I'd have laughed and pointed out that nobody outside of their own school and their family cares what marks kids get in little tests set by their own teachers. Covid rather changed all that. I do get that it's frustrating, and that some people take advantage, and that yes, in short school tests having more time can be really useful. It does pretty much stop being an issue as you move on in life, so people who are using it as a crutch to avoid doing the work to be able to answer questions more quickly are only hurting themselves. If you'd given me five times as much time in my finals exams I'd still have got pretty much exactly the same mark, because for someone like me who doesn't need extra time to process information there was plenty of time to get answers down on paper - the issue wasn't whether I could work out the answers in time, it was whether I could work them out at all.

In work? I'm working on a problem which was posed to me six months ago. My employers couldn't care less whether it took me one day or two to read and understand the supporting information - it's a drop in the ocean compared to how quickly (and, indeed, whether) I can solve the problem once I've understood exactly what it is.
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super_hannah
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#45
Report 6 days ago
#45
(Original post by alma_beu)
First of all, very disrespectful calling people with extra time ‘people who are not ‘typical’’. You might not consider this offensive but I promise you that many disabled people do.

Also, how do a students’ past achievements in any way discredit their need for extra time?

I’ve scored well in all my exams the last two years without extra time, yet I’ve now been told I should’ve been entitled to the additional time.

Getting an A* doesn’t mean I shouldn’t get extra time, it means that I’ve had to put in more work than the average student and getting additional time would only level the playing field between me and people who don’t need extra time.
I agree with you, I think that is quite offensive. I've got epilepsy but that doesn't mean I'm abnormal. I got the full whack of 25% extra time, rest breaks and I used a computer for an exam at school. Why? Because I deserved it and I had proof of it...psychological cognitive testing results showing that my cognitive abilities, processing speed and memory was much slower/worse than that of the average person due to my condition but also the heavy duty medication I was on. I worked so so hard for my exams as well, if not harder- battling my condition and trying to keep up with school. Extra time is needed and is a huge help for those with disabilities and allows one to achieve their full potential.
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JJPSWFC
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#46
Report 6 days ago
#46
Hi, you often have to have a letter from a psychiatrist or a doctor to allow extra time. I didn't get extra time at GCSE or A-Levels but I get it now at university and it's very helpful. I have ADHD-PI which wasn't diagnosed for GCSE and my sixth form's disability team was just awful so they forgot to process it for A-Level. I work at half the rate of a normal person on a good day so I don't think that a 25% extra time in order to partially make up for 1/2 the work rate (for something that I was born with).
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CatInTheCorner
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#47
Report 5 days ago
#47
"in fact it's known by extra time people to mark more early on in the test saying thats where they finished / would have finished if they were following the actual time frame... which isn't right as they're lying about where they got up to..."

Or maybe they wouldn't have finished the test? There isn't exactly a collective, to my knowledge, of "extra time people".

"I stand by saying those who abuse extra time are idiots, they don't care and multiple of them are perfectly capable of producing the same amount of work than me in exams but get given extra time for a range of dumb reasons"

Have you personally examined these people's exams? How do you know how much they write? How do you know the quality of what they write? Plenty of people with E.T can write a lot quickly, I can write the alphabet to fill pages and pages. That doesn't mean I'll do well. You seem to have the view that writing amount is the only measure of success.

" one of my personal favourites is this person who loves neat handwriting, they don't care about school and is constantly pitied for absolutely nothing at all. I'd be incorrect to say that they brag about their benefits at school, but they make it clear they don't believe they need the extra time but are happy to take it... "

So a person is receiving extra time, extra support, for a reason you aren't aware of, therefore they're an idiot?

" Although I don't know everything about everyone,"

No, you don't.

"whatever made up reason"

I'm not even going to go into how damaging that is.

"Going to a 'mean' perspective here... If people can't process information as quick, it doesn't mean they should get extra at all, it means they just aren't as mentally intelligent which is pretty much the reason FOR exams, to test how quick students can answer questions so that people, eg. colleges and employers, understand the mental capacity at which their applicants work..?
Circling back to 'a level playing field', what's level about two people with different intelligence and quick thinking? it literally undermines the whole point of exams in my opinions, right? I don't understand... (PS. NOT REFFERING TO EVERYONE HERE)"

I...I.. Oh, dear. I'd delete this ASAP. What?? Exams are not a measure of speed, unless specialised exams such as the UCAT ( in which you can also qualify for extra time ) they're a measure of knowledge. Jobs don't have stop clocks to see how quickly their employees can solve a problem, they just want to know you can.

"You should defo talk to your school's learning department, if you need it they should at least test u right? Because I agree that people with disabilities, that obviously aren't always visible, should get access arrangements such as extra time."

Thank you, I have, but as everyone is saying, it's very difficult to get, and since I don't yet have a diagnosis, and manage to finish my exams, through considerable stress, on time, I don't qualify at the moment.

" Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT ableist."

Uhm, see above?

thanks for everyone replying!! I love to hear all sides of this argument and it has helped me to take a different view towards this!! <33

I'm glad you're willing to listen, but chat to a SENCO about what actually happens to get extra time. It's not as easy as you think, you simply don't know these people's circumstances.
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Talkative Toad
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#48
Report 5 days ago
#48
(Original post by CatInTheCorner)
"in fact it's known by extra time people to mark more early on in the test saying thats where they finished / would have finished if they were following the actual time frame... which isn't right as they're lying about where they got up to..."

Or maybe they wouldn't have finished the test? There isn't exactly a collective, to my knowledge, of "extra time people".

"I stand by saying those who abuse extra time are idiots, they don't care and multiple of them are perfectly capable of producing the same amount of work than me in exams but get given extra time for a range of dumb reasons"

Have you personally examined these people's exams? How do you know how much they write? How do you know the quality of what they write? Plenty of people with E.T can write a lot quickly, I can write the alphabet to fill pages and pages. That doesn't mean I'll do well. You seem to have the view that writing amount is the only measure of success.

" one of my personal favourites is this person who loves neat handwriting, they don't care about school and is constantly pitied for absolutely nothing at all. I'd be incorrect to say that they brag about their benefits at school, but they make it clear they don't believe they need the extra time but are happy to take it... "

So a person is receiving extra time, extra support, for a reason you aren't aware of, therefore they're an idiot?

" Although I don't know everything about everyone,"

No, you don't.

"whatever made up reason"

I'm not even going to go into how damaging that is.

"Going to a 'mean' perspective here... If people can't process information as quick, it doesn't mean they should get extra at all, it means they just aren't as mentally intelligent which is pretty much the reason FOR exams, to test how quick students can answer questions so that people, eg. colleges and employers, understand the mental capacity at which their applicants work..?
Circling back to 'a level playing field', what's level about two people with different intelligence and quick thinking? it literally undermines the whole point of exams in my opinions, right? I don't understand... (PS. NOT REFFERING TO EVERYONE HERE)"

I...I.. Oh, dear. I'd delete this ASAP. What?? Exams are not a measure of speed, unless specialised exams such as the UCAT ( in which you can also qualify for extra time ) they're a measure of knowledge. Jobs don't have stop clocks to see how quickly their employees can solve a problem, they just want to know you can.

"You should defo talk to your school's learning department, if you need it they should at least test u right? Because I agree that people with disabilities, that obviously aren't always visible, should get access arrangements such as extra time."

Thank you, I have, but as everyone is saying, it's very difficult to get, and since I don't yet have a diagnosis, and manage to finish my exams, through considerable stress, on time, I don't qualify at the moment.

" Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT ableist."

Uhm, see above?

thanks for everyone replying!! I love to hear all sides of this argument and it has helped me to take a different view towards this!! <33

I'm glad you're willing to listen, but chat to a SENCO about what actually happens to get extra time. It's not as easy as you think, you simply don't know these people's circumstances.
you can do [quote]( write text here) [/qoute] (spell quote correctly) in order to separate parts of a quote from another user. other that i agree
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CatInTheCorner
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#49
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#49
Thank you! I wrote that in a bit of a horrified stupour, tbh. Will apply for next time
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cbrr
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#50
Report Thread starter 5 days ago
#50
"Or maybe they wouldn't have finished the test? There isn't exactly a collective, to my knowledge, of "extra time people"."

the majority of people who have extra time in my school do it. everyone knows to do it.


"You seem to have the view that writing amount is the only measure of success"

Not the only, but it limits everyone. It's a challenge to write a decent amount in exams and its what separates lower from high..? If there wasn't a time frame to go by, I'd have nines...???


"So a person is receiving extra time, extra support, for a reason you aren't aware of, therefore they're an idiot?"

What? read it again


"I'm not even going to go into how damaging that is."

:/ ?? I really don't see how anyone's gonna really care about that? Literally not referring to everyone? Pls- ??


"they're a measure of knowledge"

You don't go into an english language test having revised a load of content? If it were a measure of knowledge, it wouldn't be used to categorise people, eg. when getting a job?? Oh because one person knows their content and 3D Pythagoras they're gonna be the right candidate to become a receptionist? Nah exams are all about how much you can remember and fit into an exam, eg. what are you gonna talk about??


"Jobs don't have stop clocks to see how quickly their employees can solve a problem"

But it does say a lot about their intelligence? A cashier wouldn't be employed if they took 5+ minutes to figure out how much change to return..?


"Uhm, see above?"

Nah thats like cancel culture now, don't accuse me of that.


you're not really helping me see anything now you're going into a tantrum? but go off.
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AmIReallyHere
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#51
Report 5 days ago
#51
(Original post by cbrr)
"Or maybe they wouldn't have finished the test? There isn't exactly a collective, to my knowledge, of "extra time people"."

the majority of people who have extra time in my school do it. everyone knows to do it.


"You seem to have the view that writing amount is the only measure of success"

Not the only, but it limits everyone. It's a challenge to write a decent amount in exams and its what separates lower from high..? If there wasn't a time frame to go by, I'd have nines...???


"So a person is receiving extra time, extra support, for a reason you aren't aware of, therefore they're an idiot?"

What? read it again


"I'm not even going to go into how damaging that is."

:/ ?? I really don't see how anyone's gonna really care about that? Literally not referring to everyone? Pls- ??


"they're a measure of knowledge"

You don't go into an english language test having revised a load of content? If it were a measure of knowledge, it wouldn't be used to categorise people, eg. when getting a job?? Oh because one person knows their content and 3D Pythagoras they're gonna be the right candidate to become a receptionist? Nah exams are all about how much you can remember and fit into an exam, eg. what are you gonna talk about??


"Jobs don't have stop clocks to see how quickly their employees can solve a problem"

But it does say a lot about their intelligence? A cashier wouldn't be employed if they took 5+ minutes to figure out how much change to return..?


"Uhm, see above?"

Nah thats like cancel culture now, don't accuse me of that.


you're not really helping me see anything now you're going into a tantrum? but go off.
Noone has cancelled you, I would try to learn instead of trying to argue back?

It's extremely damaging to adopt the stance that people are "making up" illnesses in order to get extra time - do you know their situation? Have you accessed their papers? Have you actually seen their files to say this?

There isn't a lack of time frame for people with extra time, they just get a bit extra to compensate for time that they need to understand the paper - your school are horrible at giving out extra time evidently, but as always with the education system, it's the minority of the schools ruining things for everyone else

There is generally a machine nowadays to see how much change someone should get.

Also why do you seem to think that if you had more time to write you would have nines, even if some people get 2 days to write, they most likely won't reach the level of analysis/writing required to get a 9?

"You don't go into an english language test having revised a load of content? If it were a measure of knowledge, it wouldn't be used to categorise people, eg. when getting a job?? Oh because one person knows their content and 3D Pythagoras they're gonna be the right candidate to become a receptionist? Nah exams are all about how much you can remember and fit into an exam, eg. what are you gonna talk about??"

You do however revise how to analyse texts repeatedly, you need to have the knowledge to analyse texts in order to do this. Also GCSEs in English and Maths are found on job requirements for even low-level minimum wage jobs!
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Honey57
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#52
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#52
(Original post by JJPSWFC)
Hi, you often have to have a letter from a psychiatrist or a doctor to allow extra time. I didn't get extra time at GCSE or A-Levels but I get it now at university and it's very helpful. I have ADHD-PI which wasn't diagnosed for GCSE and my sixth form's disability team was just awful so they forgot to process it for A-Level. I work at half the rate of a normal person on a good day so I don't think that a 25% extra time in order to partially make up for 1/2 the work rate (for something that I was born with).
OMG this happened to me too!!!! My college were so horrible and they were so so late that they didn’t send off my application for extra time too! They didn’t take it seriously either saying that considerable evidence is needed of my OCD but they don’t realise that I’ve had it for 6 years and I haven’t been to psychologists and psychiatrists for the full 6 years so they also said I had a lack of evidence even though I brought in my psychiatrists letter about my condition.

Hoping to get extra time at uni, how did they grant you it there if I may ask so I can prepare for myself too.
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Incidentaloma
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#53
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#53
(Original post by Callicious)
Hot damn- 20% is quite a bit. I've never known anyone who got extra time in my classes so I guess my upbringing was a bit off the norm, but I didn't expect it to be this bad (do we really have that weak a population? :_:...)
Disability is common. It also isn't the same thing as weakness.

I had extra time in my exams. I took six A-levels, two of them self taught, and got very high marks in all of them. Cognitive difficulties such as autism, ADHD, etc. affect people of all levels of intelligence. Paradoxically this means that when someone who is academically strong gets extra time, they're accused of not really needing it, and when someone who is academically weak gets it, they're accused of cheating to cover up how little they try in class. Basically some people are envious and feel that their classmates are getting some special advantage that they don't deserve, but that isn't true. It's demonstrably not the case that everyone would automatically get high grades if they had longer in the exam room. People who use extra time get anything from Us to A*s, just like everyone else.

Historically there were just as many people with cognitive difficulties as there are now. In earlier generations they just didn't get any support, with the result that they had to fight twice as hard for their achievements. I went from being a student with SEN to a teacher in a special school and I know that the SEN training on a typical PGCE is slim to non-existent, so it doesn't surprise me that we even have teachers and exam officers insisting that increased diagnosis is all the result of "pushy parents". It isn't true. Greater inclusion and accessibility are things to be glad about, not resented.
Last edited by Incidentaloma; 5 days ago
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Talkative Toad
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#54
Report 5 days ago
#54
(Original post by cbrr)
"Or maybe they wouldn't have finished the test? There isn't exactly a collective, to my knowledge, of "extra time people"."

the majority of people who have extra time in my school do it. everyone knows to do it.


"You seem to have the view that writing amount is the only measure of success"

Not the only, but it limits everyone. It's a challenge to write a decent amount in exams and its what separates lower from high..? If there wasn't a time frame to go by, I'd have nines...???


"So a person is receiving extra time, extra support, for a reason you aren't aware of, therefore they're an idiot?"

What? read it again


"I'm not even going to go into how damaging that is."

:/ ?? I really don't see how anyone's gonna really care about that? Literally not referring to everyone? Pls- ??


"they're a measure of knowledge"

You don't go into an english language test having revised a load of content? If it were a measure of knowledge, it wouldn't be used to categorise people, eg. when getting a job?? Oh because one person knows their content and 3D Pythagoras they're gonna be the right candidate to become a receptionist? Nah exams are all about how much you can remember and fit into an exam, eg. what are you gonna talk about??


"Jobs don't have stop clocks to see how quickly their employees can solve a problem"

But it does say a lot about their intelligence? A cashier wouldn't be employed if they took 5+ minutes to figure out how much change to return..?


"Uhm, see above?"

Nah thats like cancel culture now, don't accuse me of that.


you're not really helping me see anything now you're going into a tantrum? but go off.
Do you receive extra time in exams, just wondering? Because it seems to be a case of you being salty about people like myself who need things like Extra time, reader (don't really need this but I'll take it for that French exam), scribe (ditched it) etc because you (I assume) don't get that stuff in exams more than anything. If I had my extra time removed I would care alot about it being removed as I need it and use it for every subject so to say that no one would care is false.

As AmIReallyHere says more time does not automatically equal higher grade, if I don't know my Physics for example I'm not going to get a high grade in the subject no matter how much time I'm given. Ironically the subject where I did the papers the quickest I got the highest grade, would you look at that.
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skylark2
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#55
Report 5 days ago
#55
I propose an alternative system - I wonder if cbrr would prefer it?

I actually read really fast, I write fast, I process things fast. I have literally never got to the end of an exam and thought "gee, I wish I had some more time", in fact it's really rare that I haven't been twiddling my thumbs for half an hour even after having checked everything through a dozen times.

So I suggest using me as a benchmark. We'll stop the exam the moment I've finished, which will probably be at about half time, maybe less depending on the subject. What, cbrr won't have completed their answers by then? Well, I guess they won't get a very good mark - not because they couldn't do it, but because they couldn't do it as fast as me and the other super speedy people. But isn't that what the exam is for - to separate those who can and those who can't?

There are exams which are basically speed tests like this - often aptitude tests for jobs/careers/ specific training. That's not what GCSEs are, nor A levels, nor degrees. For the record, I don't think they should be.
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Talkative Toad
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#56
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#56
(Original post by skylark2)
I propose an alternative system - I wonder if cbrr would prefer it?

I actually read really fast, I write fast, I process things fast. I have literally never got to the end of an exam and thought "gee, I wish I had some more time", in fact it's really rare that I haven't been twiddling my thumbs for half an hour even after having checked everything through a dozen times.

So I suggest using me as a benchmark. We'll stop the exam the moment I've finished, which will probably be at about half time, maybe less depending on the subject. What, cbrr won't have completed their answers by then? Well, I guess they won't get a very good mark - not because they couldn't do it, but because they couldn't do it as fast as me and the other super speedy people. But isn't that what the exam is for - to separate those who can and those who can't?

There are exams which are basically speed tests like this - often aptitude tests for jobs/careers/ specific training. That's not what GCSEs are, nor A levels, nor degrees. For the record, I don't think they should be.
Nice analogy, yeah let's take off of 20 mins the GCSE French exams (AQA at least) whilst we're at it too. Who needs an hour am I right? 40-45 minutes is plenty of time
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skylark2
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#57
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#57
(Original post by Talkative Toad)
Nice analogy, yeah let's take off of 20 mins the GCSE French exams (AQA at least) whilst we're at it too. Who needs an hour am I right? 40-45 minutes is plenty of time
Exactly - it'll be much easier to differentiate between people who can understand everything first time and people who can't then!
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Talkative Toad
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#58
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#58
(Original post by skylark2)
Exactly - it'll be much easier to differentiate between people who can understand everything first time and people who can't then!
Brilliant (obviously we're joking around) but yeah being SEN and/or having special access arrangements≠inferior/less intelligent.
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CatInTheCorner
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#59
Report 4 days ago
#59
(Original post by cbrr)
"the majority of people who have extra time in my school do it. everyone knows to do it."

Not everyone, again.

"Not the only, but it limits everyone. It's a challenge to write a decent amount in exams and its what separates lower from high..? If there wasn't a time frame to go by, I'd have nines...???"

No, no-one would, because if you don't know the content it doesn't matter how long you spend staring at the paper. Take it from someone who got 7 9s and 3 8s, the time frame was not the limiting factor. Have you sat mocks yet?

"What? read it again"

I have. You say that this boy abuses extra time, since he wants to write neatly? You say he doesn't have a reason. Going by your earlier statements, you're calling him an idiot. Tell me where you said different.


"I'm not even going to go into how damaging that is."

:/ ?? I really don't see how anyone's gonna really care about that? Literally not referring to everyone? Pls- ??

I care. I care a whole lot. You assume that because you don't know a person's reason, it's made up. Do you know how many people have been accused of faking it when they actually need support? I got told that I was having a panic attack when my heart rate was high enough an ambulance had to be called - for my heart condition. People constantly get told they're making it up. Doesn't matter if you're not referring to everyone, saying that anyone would actually lie about having something that affects their life is just plain offensive, hurtful, and unecessary.


"You don't go into an english language test having revised a load of content? If it were a measure of knowledge, it wouldn't be used to categorise people, eg. when getting a job?? Oh because one person knows their content and 3D Pythagoras they're gonna be the right candidate to become a receptionist? Nah exams are all about how much you can remember and fit into an exam, eg. what are you gonna talk about??"

If you're not revising for english, learning content, there's a problem. I learnt different forms of writing, informal, formal, when to paragraph, how to adress certain people, etc. You can't tell me a science exam is not a test of knowledge. What are you going to do otherwise, write a story?

What? If someone knows pythagoras, I assume they're applying for a job in the math/finance/engineering sector. I would be incredibly worried if my engineer that built the bridge I'm standing on didn't know the basics of triangles! "How much you can remember" - this is literally the definition of content.

"But it does say a lot about their intelligence? A cashier wouldn't be employed if they took 5+ minutes to figure out how much change to return..?"

Please stop comparing intelligence and speed. You seem to think people don't play to their strengths. I need extra time in exams because my disability means when I move, my heart goes nuts, obviously I can't be answering questions in that time. Very obviously, I am not going to become a professional athelete. That cashier could be an absolute genius at writing books, yet you're saying because they may not process number's as quickly, they're not intelligent?

Stephen Hawking. He would need acess arrangements in an exam if he were to take a common, written physics exam. He wouldn't finish on time due to his ALS. He would maybe need a scribe. By your definition of people actually needing extra time not being intelligent, Stephen Hawking is not intelligent.

Albert Einstien - qualifies for modern extra time, he was dyslexic and always had trouble spelling and with grammar. You would define him as unintelligent.

Do you see how this is nonsense.


"Nah thats like cancel culture now, don't accuse me of that."

Then don't be ableist. Don't say people with conditions are less intelligent.
"discrimination in favour of able-bodied people." is the literal definition of ableism. Now, to a direct quote from you:

"If people can't process information as quick, it doesn't mean they should get extra at all, it means they just aren't as mentally intelligent"

Which is quite literally, discrimination in favour of able bodied people, because you would take away what people with conditions need to have a level playing field and not face discrimination.


"you're not really helping me see anything now you're going into a tantrum? but go off."

I've literally written an essay about how what you're saying is damaging, helping you to see how speed is not intelligence, how content over amount is the point of exams, so on, but I'm not trying to help?
It's not a tantrum, more stunned silence really. Quiet horror? Please stop posting, you're literally just putting your foot even more in your mouth.
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Talkative Toad
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#60
Report 4 days ago
#60
(Original post by skylark2)
I propose an alternative system - I wonder if cbrr would prefer it?

I actually read really fast, I write fast, I process things fast. I have literally never got to the end of an exam and thought "gee, I wish I had some more time", in fact it's really rare that I haven't been twiddling my thumbs for half an hour even after having checked everything through a dozen times.

So I suggest using me as a benchmark. We'll stop the exam the moment I've finished, which will probably be at about half time, maybe less depending on the subject. What, cbrr won't have completed their answers by then? Well, I guess they won't get a very good mark - not because they couldn't do it, but because they couldn't do it as fast as me and the other super speedy people. But isn't that what the exam is for - to separate those who can and those who can't?

There are exams which are basically speed tests like this - often aptitude tests for jobs/careers/ specific training. That's not what GCSEs are, nor A levels, nor degrees. For the record, I don't think they should be.
Tbh the sad truth is that linear exams/exams in England have become this how much memorised stuff can you put down on the paper within a given time period (especially for GCSEs I think) which is sad even though that's not supposed to be their purpose as you rightfully say.
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