How should Britain react to Omicron?

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8013
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#61
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#61
My home's new restrictions for Omicron:
1. Only eat ins at home are allowed until 4th February.
2. My uni class schedule should try to have classes start after 1:30pm or end before 1:30pm on all days, such that it is enough for a takeaway lunch, further reducing the need of dine ins at food outlets in my uni. This will make me replicate a 60-day streak without a single dine in, as I did for the previous waves of covid (January 26th 2020 to May 26th 2020, July 9th 2020 to October 3rd 2020, and November 22nd 2020 to February 14th 2021).
3. No direct touching of any public surface, and only electronic payments are allowed for all purchases. But for me, cash is limited to payments over £20, while it is £15 for my sister.
4. On weekdays, public transport rides are only allowed between 10am and 5pm, which is the off peak period.
5. At all times, we are only allowed to leave the house for essential purposes for 2 weeks.
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Lucifer323
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#62
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#62
(Original post by 8013)
My home's new restrictions for Omicron:
1. Only eat ins at home are allowed until 4th February.
2. My uni class schedule should try to have classes start after 1:30pm or end before 1:30pm on all days, such that it is enough for a takeaway lunch, further reducing the need of dine ins at food outlets in my uni. This will make me replicate a 60-day streak without a single dine in, as I did for the previous waves of covid (January 26th 2020 to May 26th 2020, July 9th 2020 to October 3rd 2020, and November 22nd 2020 to February 14th 2021).
3. No direct touching of any public surface, and only electronic payments are allowed for all purchases. But for me, cash is limited to payments over £20, while it is £15 for my sister.
4. On weekdays, public transport rides are only allowed between 10am and 5pm, which is the off peak period.
5. At all times, we are only allowed to leave the house for essential purposes for 2 weeks.
Madness
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hotpud
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#63
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#63
(Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
You can't get rid of Covid by hiding away. Totally wrong idea.

Everyone as far as possible needs to get exposed to the virus imo to gain natural immunity. With the majority of people protected from serious illness and death by the vaccines it should now be our priority to let the virus run free imo.
This opinion is dangerous and would see higher levels of hospitalisation and deaths, especially amongst those who are vaccinated. Yes, I agree natural immunity provides protection but it is vastly more risky to take this approach than to simply take the vaccine which also affords you protection against hospitalisation and death even if you do catch covid.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/

If in doubt, seek professional medical advice.
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username4762463
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#64
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#64
(Original post by Ambitious1999)
Stop all overseas travel to prevent more cases coming into the country.
Stop illegal migrants coming on boats to stop cases coming into the country too
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PilgrimOfTruth
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#65
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#65
Again it's worth seeing the data in the gov't Vaccine Surveillance Reports to understand what's actually happening in the UK regarding the vaccinated and unvaccinated people. I maintain my personal opinion that natural immunity is far far superior to any vaccine derived protection and that the only way for the world to become safe is for everyone to gain that natural immunity.

Here's the latest Vaccine Surveillance Report - Week 1 for 2021 which covers the past 4 weeks

https://assets.publishing.service.go...eek_1_2022.pdf

Here are the figures taken from this report to which I've added the individual percentages in yellow

Covid Cases

Image

Covid Hospitalisations

Image

Covid Deaths

Image

So let's summarise the above

The fully vaccinated (those who have had 2 doses) are the vast majority of ALL Covid cases (65%) compared to the unvaccinated 21% and are the majority of all cases in EVERY AGE GROUP except the under 18s

The fully vaccinated are the majority of all Covid hospitalisations (53%) and are the majority of hospitalisations for everyone aged 50yrs and up

The fully vaccinated are the majority of all Covid Deaths (67%) compared to the unvaccinated (30%) and again are the majority of deaths for all people aged 50yrs and up.


Against this backdrop it seems incredulous to me that anyone could still harbor any thoughts that vaccination alone can ever end this pandemic. Numerous scientists have already stated clearly that we simply can not vaccinate our way out of this pandemic including the popular Dr John Campbell here at 4:40 in his video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVl5OkHcvf4


It's patently clear to me personally that we now HAVE to get everyone established with complex and comprehensive natural immunity a far as is humanly possible. Most people have been vaccinated and thus are protected against serious illness and/or death so gaining natural immunity for most really shouldn't be a problem imo. Add in the fact that we now have good drugs for treating Covid early to prevent serious illness cases [1] and the way forward simply looks incredibly obvious to me. Herd immunity via natural immunity of the vast majority of people. The sooner the better imo.

Citations:

[1]- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59721240

Covid: Vulnerable NHS patients to be offered new drug
Last edited by PilgrimOfTruth; 2 weeks ago
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jamiet0185
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#66
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#66
(Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
Again it's worth seeing the data in the gov't Vaccine Surveillance Reports to understand what's actually happening in the UK regarding the vaccinated and unvaccinated people. I maintain my personal opinion that natural immunity is far far superior to any vaccine derived protection and that the only way for the world to become safe is for everyone to gain that natural immunity.

Here's the latest Vaccine Surveillance Report - Week 1 for 2021 which covers the past 4 weeks

https://assets.publishing.service.go...eek_1_2022.pdf

Here are the figures taken from this report to which I've added the individual percentages in yellow

Covid Cases

Image

Covid Hospitalisations

Image

Covid Deaths

Image

So let's summarise the above

The fully vaccinated (those who have had 2 doses) are the vast majority of ALL Covid cases (65%) compared to the unvaccinated 21% and are the majority of all cases in EVERY AGE GROUP except the under 18s

The fully vaccinated are the majority of all Covid hospitalisations (53%) and are the majority of hospitalisations for everyone aged 50yrs and up

The fully vaccinated are the majority of all Covid Deaths (67%) compared to the unvaccinated (30%) and again are the majority of deaths for all people aged 50yrs and up.


Against this backdrop it seems incredulous to me that anyone could still harbor any thoughts that vaccination alone can ever end this pandemic. Numerous scientists have already stated clearly that we simply can not vaccinate our way out of this pandemic including the popular Dr John Campbell here at 4:40 in his video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVl5OkHcvf4


It's patently clear to me personally that we now HAVE to get everyone established with complex and comprehensive natural immunity a far as is humanly possible. Most people have been vaccinated and thus are protected against serious illness and/or death so gaining natural immunity for most really shouldn't be a problem imo. Add in the fact that we now have good drugs for treating Covid early to prevent serious illness cases [1] and the way forward simply looks incredibly obvious to me. Herd immunity via natural immunity of the vast majority of people. The sooner the better imo.

Citations:

[1]- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59721240

Covid: Vulnerable NHS patients to be offered new drug
Going all out for herd immunity will cost lives, put many people in hospital, and could be of limited use in fighting off any future variant. eg immunity against Delta isn't massively helpful against Omicron
Last edited by jamiet0185; 2 weeks ago
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Starship Trooper
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#67
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#67
Put ourselves in giant fallout style bunkers and go into chryo sleep until this deadly virus with a 99% survival rate dissipates.

Alternatively mass suicide.
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Lucifer323
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#68
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#68
(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Put ourselves in giant fallout style bunkers and go into chryo sleep until this deadly virus with a 99% survival rate dissipates.

Alternatively mass suicide.
You have made a mistake though. The survival rate isn't 99% but 99.85%
Professor John Ioannidis has estimated the infection fatality rate globally to be around 0.15%

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33716331/

Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data

John P A Ioannidis. Bull World Health Organ. 2021.

Panic, fear & terror, have no place in a society that reacts in the presence of a virus. Eventhough in my view there has been a campaign of scaremongering, fear and terror, that was supported mainly by the mainstream media in the absence of any evidence imo.

I am of the view that those who exaggerated this situation for whatever reasons, promoted fear and terror, and lied to the public, should be facing the law and receive lengthy sentences in the future after order is restored.
Last edited by Lucifer323; 2 weeks ago
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PilgrimOfTruth
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#69
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#69
(Original post by jamiet0185)
Going all out for herd immunity will cost lives, put many people in hospital, and could be of limited use in fighting off any future variant. eg immunity against Delta isn't massively helpful against Omicron
Not going out for herd immunity will surely cost more lives imo.

You can't run from Covid. You can't hide from it. It is with us permanently now imo like Flu and the Common Cold

You can't eradicate Covid via vaccinations imo and various scientists and respected people have frequently stated that we can't vaccinate our way out of the pandemic such as Dr John Campbell in his video which is cited just upthread, post #65

We really have very little choice

The vaccines should protect most from serious illness and death as that was their primary purpose.

We have drugs to treat patients early now

So no, I don't agree at all with the alarmist narrative that going for herd immunity will cost lots more lives.
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hotpud
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#70
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#70
(Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
Again it's worth seeing the data in the gov't Vaccine Surveillance Reports to understand what's actually happening in the UK regarding the vaccinated and unvaccinated people. I maintain my personal opinion that natural immunity is far far superior to any vaccine derived protection and that the only way for the world to become safe is for everyone to gain that natural immunity.

Here's the latest Vaccine Surveillance Report - Week 1 for 2021 which covers the past 4 weeks

https://assets.publishing.service.go...eek_1_2022.pdf

Here are the figures taken from this report to which I've added the individual percentages in yellow

Covid Cases

Image

Covid Hospitalisations

Image

Covid Deaths

Image

So let's summarise the above

The fully vaccinated (those who have had 2 doses) are the vast majority of ALL Covid cases (65%) compared to the unvaccinated 21% and are the majority of all cases in EVERY AGE GROUP except the under 18s

The fully vaccinated are the majority of all Covid hospitalisations (53%) and are the majority of hospitalisations for everyone aged 50yrs and up

The fully vaccinated are the majority of all Covid Deaths (67%) compared to the unvaccinated (30%) and again are the majority of deaths for all people aged 50yrs and up.


Against this backdrop it seems incredulous to me that anyone could still harbor any thoughts that vaccination alone can ever end this pandemic. Numerous scientists have already stated clearly that we simply can not vaccinate our way out of this pandemic including the popular Dr John Campbell here at 4:40 in his video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVl5OkHcvf4


It's patently clear to me personally that we now HAVE to get everyone established with complex and comprehensive natural immunity a far as is humanly possible. Most people have been vaccinated and thus are protected against serious illness and/or death so gaining natural immunity for most really shouldn't be a problem imo. Add in the fact that we now have good drugs for treating Covid early to prevent serious illness cases [1] and the way forward simply looks incredibly obvious to me. Herd immunity via natural immunity of the vast majority of people. The sooner the better imo.

Citations:

[1]- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59721240

Covid: Vulnerable NHS patients to be offered new drug
My goodness. Are you still trotting out incorrect analysis of hospitalisations. Another perfect example of the base rate fallacy for any economists out there.

If 10% of people have not been vaccinated, why are more than 30% of hospitalisations not vaccinated? (your figures) Surely if covid were hitting the vaccinated and unvaccinated at the same rate and vaccines were ineffective, you would expect to see 10% of people in hospital unvaccinated and 90% vaccinated. But you don't. Why is that?


Just for a bit of "real" context:
- 61% of patients in intensive care up to 31st December were unvaccinated with some hospitals reporting between 80% and 90%
- In the week up to 31st December, 25% were unvaccinated and 74% had not received all three doses of vaccine
- A separate report published by the UKHSA showed that, although unvaccinated individuals made up only a small proportion of the overall population, they accounted for 27% of those with a confirmed case of omicron admitted to hospital in England and for 39% in London.
- If you have had at least two doses of vaccine, you are 96% less likely to die than those who are unvaccinated
https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o5

Please feel free to explain why these figures are incorrect.
Last edited by hotpud; 2 weeks ago
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8013
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#71
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#71
My dad and sister went to a concert last week and they sat in block 71 row 25. Someone went to another show tested positive today, which was last Monday and was in block 46 row 20. It was fortunate that they sat that far away from the affected area!
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8013
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#72
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#72
Someone even proposed HK to send all students home, and do covid tests in a short while on all people. This is insane, but it will cut down transmission very quickly, within a few days, as all the cases are detected very soon.
I think my uni will carry on mixed mode of teaching as more than 90% of the students and staff are fully vaccinated.
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JVM2020
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#73
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#73
Everyone, get yourself boosters booked ASAP

Mine is this coming week.

Boris is all about economy and money.
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8013
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#74
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#74
HK has sent all students below year 7 back home until 13th February. This is absolutely crazy.
For years 7 and above it is still not known whether they will be sent home. Universities will remain in mixed mode.
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8013
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#75
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#75
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The queue for a covid test in HK. Anything like this in UK?
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Megacent
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#76
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#76
I don't understand why the scientists keep prolonging this misery for everyone, but I do think enough is enough and we need to get tough on them now. In my opinion we should pass a law making it illegal for any government scientist or adviser to advocate for more covid restrictions, with a 40 year prison term. I'm fairly confident they would stop dragging this thing out if they knew they'd to go jail for nearly half a century for doing so.
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8013
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#77
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#77
(Original post by Megacent)
I don't understand why the scientists keep prolonging this misery for everyone, but I do think enough is enough and we need to get tough on them now. In my opinion we should pass a law making it illegal for any government scientist or adviser to advocate for more covid restrictions, with a 40 year prison term. I'm fairly confident they would stop dragging this thing out if they knew they'd to go jail for nearly half a century for doing so.
In HK they are doing something crazy, and they sent the two Case Zeros of Omicron in here to jail!
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Napp
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#78
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#78
(Original post by username4762463)
Stop illegal migrants coming on boats to stop cases coming into the country too
But legal ones are totally cool? If you're going to be racist, at least make it slightly more subtle.. saying brown people have diseases is really old hat.
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harrysbar
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#79
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#79
(Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
Again it's worth seeing the data in the gov't Vaccine Surveillance Reports to understand what's actually happening in the UK regarding the vaccinated and unvaccinated people. I maintain my personal opinion that natural immunity is far far superior to any vaccine derived protection and that the only way for the world to become safe is for everyone to gain that natural immunity.

Here's the latest Vaccine Surveillance Report - Week 1 for 2021 which covers the past 4 weeks

https://assets.publishing.service.go...eek_1_2022.pdf

Here are the figures taken from this report to which I've added the individual percentages in yellow

Covid Cases

Image

Covid Hospitalisations

Image

Covid Deaths

Image

So let's summarise the above

The fully vaccinated (those who have had 2 doses) are the vast majority of ALL Covid cases (65%) compared to the unvaccinated 21% and are the majority of all cases in EVERY AGE GROUP except the under 18s

The fully vaccinated are the majority of all Covid hospitalisations (53%) and are the majority of hospitalisations for everyone aged 50yrs and up

The fully vaccinated are the majority of all Covid Deaths (67%) compared to the unvaccinated (30%) and again are the majority of deaths for all people aged 50yrs and up.


Against this backdrop it seems incredulous to me that anyone could still harbor any thoughts that vaccination alone can ever end this pandemic. Numerous scientists have already stated clearly that we simply can not vaccinate our way out of this pandemic including the popular Dr John Campbell here at 4:40 in his video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVl5OkHcvf4


It's patently clear to me personally that we now HAVE to get everyone established with complex and comprehensive natural immunity a far as is humanly possible. Most people have been vaccinated and thus are protected against serious illness and/or death so gaining natural immunity for most really shouldn't be a problem imo. Add in the fact that we now have good drugs for treating Covid early to prevent serious illness cases [1] and the way forward simply looks incredibly obvious to me. Herd immunity via natural immunity of the vast majority of people. The sooner the better imo.

Citations:

[1]- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59721240

Covid: Vulnerable NHS patients to be offered new drug
You could summarise your data this way:

The unvaccinated make up 30% of total deaths but less than 10% of the eligible population.

To choose to go unvaccinated is low risk for the young and healthy - not so much for the over 50s or medically vulnerable
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PilgrimOfTruth
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#80
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#80
(Original post by harrysbar)
You could summarise your data this way:

The unvaccinated make up 30% of total deaths but less than 10% of the eligible population.

To choose to go unvaccinated is low risk for the young and healthy - not so much for the over 50s or medically vulnerable
lol

You can summarise it however you wish for your own narrative but it won't remotely change the harsh fact which is:

The FULLY VACCINATED are accounting for the vast majority of all Covid Hospitalisations and have done for months now.

The people on the front line who want beds for ordinary people with ordinary ailments don't care about your proportionality. They care about the beds, and those beds (which are occupied by Covid patients), are in the majority the fully vaccinated by a very long margin. It is what it is.

Plus the situation is getting steadily worse if you look at each of the Vaccine Surveillance Reports week by week

Here's a summary I have put together of the past 4 Government Vaccine Surveillance Reports (Week 50,51 of 2021 and Week 1 and 2 of 2022):

Image


The fully vaccinated hospitalisations are on the increase rising from a low of 49% up to 58%

The unvaccinated hospitalisations are on the decline going from a high of 45% down to 35%

All VS Reports can be found here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...llance-reports


Accordingly there is absolutely no justification mo for any stigmatising or demonisation of the unvaccinated community.
Last edited by PilgrimOfTruth; 1 week ago
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