Senior consultants picking up shifts earn less than med students doing HCA. Thoughts?

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concernedLMAO
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#1
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#1
A senior consultant doctor earning a base salary of £100k takes home approximately £12.50 from a £100 an hour shift after tax, NI, student loan and NHS pension.

A med student on the other hand takes home about £20 after tax/NI/student loan/pension for Sunday HCA shifts or about £15 for Saturday/nights. Thoughts?

How on earth can people expect consultant doctors to pick up extra shifts and get paid less than teenagers on gap year reapplying to med school or a few pounds more than people with zero qualifications working at McDonalds or Tescos?
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ecolier
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(Original post by concernedLMAO)
A senior consultant doctor earning a base salary of £100k takes home approximately £12.50 from a £100 an hour shift after tax, NI, student loan and NHS pension.
Well hopefully the senior consultant wouldn't still be paying student loans.

I mean I am a brand spanking new consultant and I have paid mine off years ago.

Plus of course, you can't ignore the fact that the NHS pension is extremely lucrative.

A med student on the other hand takes home about £20 after tax/NI/student loan/pension for Sunday HCA shifts or about £15 for Saturday/nights. Thoughts?
It's fine?

How on earth can people expect consultant doctors to pick up extra shifts and get paid less than teenagers on gap year reapplying to med school or a few pounds more than people with zero qualifications working at McDonalds or Tescos?
You do know that consultants picking up extra shifts aren't paid at that rate right? :lol:

Recently at a trust near me (nameless) they were offering us £200 per hour doing clinics :giggle:

Also, you have missed out how doctors need to pay loads just to get there (exams etc.) and work (GMC fees, medical indemnity etc.). If you wanted to, you can be an HCA forever... no one will stop you!
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concernedLMAO
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(Original post by ecolier)
Well hopefully the senior consultant wouldn't still be paying student loans.

I mean I am a brand spanking new consultant and I have paid mine off years ago.

Plus of course, you can't ignore the fact that the NHS pension is extremely lucrative.



It's fine?



You do know that consultants picking up extra shifts aren't paid at that rate right? :lol:

Recently at a trust near me (nameless) they were offering us £200 per hour doing clinics :giggle:

Also, you have missed out how doctors need to pay loads just to get there (exams etc.) and work (GMC fees, medical indemnity etc.). If you wanted to, you can be an HCA forever... no one will stop you!
No problem with HCA pay, it's reasonable

Ok I didn't know they paid that well. But still £200 isn't enough with this level of taxes imo especially since £9k fee bros with max student loan will be paying that shite back even once they get to £100k. If they are £25 after everything? 25% more than a med student? It's a joke.
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Democracy
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(Original post by concernedLMAO)
A senior consultant doctor earning a base salary of £100k takes home approximately £12.50 from a £100 an hour shift after tax, NI, student loan and NHS pension.

A med student on the other hand takes home about £20 after tax/NI/student loan/pension for Sunday HCA shifts or about £15 for Saturday/nights. Thoughts?

How on earth can people expect consultant doctors to pick up extra shifts and get paid less than teenagers on gap year reapplying to med school or a few pounds more than people with zero qualifications working at McDonalds or Tescos?
I think you need to show your working. Some of these figures sound a bit made up. Where are HCAs being paid £20 per hour net?
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ecolier
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(Original post by concernedLMAO)
No problem with HCA pay, it's reasonable
As Democracy said above me - I am yet to come across any HCA being paid that much.

Ok I didn't know they paid that well. But still £200 isn't enough with this level of taxes imo especially since £9k fee bros with max student loan will be paying that shite back even once they get to £100k. If they are £25 after everything? 25% more than a med student? It's a joke.
That's an outlier due to COVID and huge waiting lists, it's not normally paid that well at all :lol:

But no consultant that's working at the moment will have paid £9k tuition fees - I paid £1125 (I was the last year though) and for a few years the few years below me paid £3000 per year.

Blame the tax system... but I see consultants having nice cars and houses, and no med student / HCA I know go round driving Aston Martins.
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concernedLMAO
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(Original post by Democracy)
I think you need to show your working. Some of these figures sound a bit made up. Where are HCAs being paid £20 per hour net?
This is for Sunday shifts. Med students won't pay tax or student loan and the tiniest bit of NI and pension. For a band 2 it is £18.10 * (59/52) (holiday pay) = £20.53. No tax paid obviously, no student loan either and a few pennies on pension and NI. Okay it comes slightly under £20 after this but still.....

For consultant pay google salary after tax calc and type in £100k then £100.1k. You'll get £26 difference. Then apply 13.5% pension rate and you'll get £12.50.
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Incidentaloma
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Where have you got those numbers from? They don't make any sense.

A HCA working on Sunday earns about £18 before tax and NI deductions, but most importantly, that number doesn't represent 'extra': that is part of their basic income. A full time HCA will be earning between £18 and 20k a year on average, depending on whether they are band 2 or 3. I can't understand how anyone can pit that against a hypothetical 100k base salary and decide that the consultant comes off worse. 😳 I also don't get the comparison to Tesco. Supermarket employees have a repetitive, physically demanding thankless job for which they're paid peanuts. I doubt many doctors would look at that and think, "Their job satisfaction must be so much higher than mine." Yes, you could argue that doctors aren't remunerated fairly, but neither are minimum-wage employees in supermarkets. Doctors can afford a much nicer lifestyle than the average supermarket worker can, which is why these comparisons don't sit right with me.
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ecolier
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(Original post by concernedLMAO)
This is for Sunday shifts. Med students won't pay tax or student loan and the tiniest bit of NI and pension. For a band 2 it is £18.10 * (59/52) (holiday pay) = £20.53. No tax paid obviously, no student loan either and a few pennies on pension and NI. Okay it comes slightly under £20 after this but still.....
How many Sundays are there in a year then? How can you extrapolate Sunday pay to the whole year?

Also, you can't not pay tax forever - once a student start earning above the earnings threshold they'd be subjected to tax like anyone else.

For consultant pay google salary after tax calc and type in £100k then £100.1k. You'll get £26 difference. Then apply 13.5% pension rate and you'll get £12.50.
You're talking as if pension = money thrown away. It's not - NHS pension as I said is one of the best perks of the job.
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concernedLMAO
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(Original post by Incidentaloma)
Where have you got those numbers from? They don't make any sense.

A HCA working on Sunday earns about £18 before tax and NI deductions, but most importantly, that number doesn't represent 'extra': that is part of their basic income. A full time HCA will be earning between £18 and 20k a year on average, depending on whether they are band 2 or 3. I can't understand how anyone can pit that against a hypothetical 100k base salary and decide that the consultant comes off worse. 😳 I also don't get the comparison to Tesco. Supermarket employees have a repetitive, physically demanding thankless job for which they're paid peanuts. I doubt many doctors would look at that and think, "Their job satisfaction must be so much higher than mine." Yes, you could argue that doctors aren't remunerated fairly, but neither are minimum-wage employees in supermarkets. Doctors can afford a much nicer lifestyle than the average supermarket worker can, which is why these comparisons don't sit right with me.
It's obviously rubbish vs working as a consultant as a full time job but seriously, the pay for picking up consultant shifts should always be higher than what a 1st year student earns with zero responsibility or education required.
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concernedLMAO
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(Original post by ecolier)
How many Sundays are there in a year then? How can you extrapolate Sunday pay to the whole year?

Also, you can't not pay tax forever - once a student start earning above the earnings threshold they'd be subjected to tax like anyone else.



You're talking as if pension = money thrown away. It's not - NHS pension as I said is one of the best perks of the job.
Doing every Sunday you're not going to owe any tax/student loan.

Ok maybe this makes it a bit better but still. Yikes
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ecolier
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(Original post by concernedLMAO)
Doing every Sunday you're not going to owe any tax/student loan.

Ok maybe this makes it a bit better but still. Yikes
(1) Not everyone can work every Sunday

(2) You can't really just work Sundays and rack up the extra pay - those in charge just wouldn't let you (staffing requirements are higher during the week)

(3) As I said, if you find HCA pay attractive - there's nothing to stop you from doing that.

(Original post by concernedLMAO)
It's obviously rubbish vs working as a consultant as a full time job but seriously, the pay for picking up consultant shifts should always be higher than what a 1st year student earns with zero responsibility or education required.
I don't think you know the ins and outs about what consultants actually earn when they pick up extra work (for a start, extra work is not NHS-pensionable).
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concernedLMAO
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(Original post by ecolier)
(1) Not everyone can work every Sunday

(2) You can just work Sundays and rack up the extra pay - those in charge just wouldn't let you

(3) As I said, if you find HCA pay attractive - there's nothing to stop you from doing that.



I don't think you know the ins and outs about what consultants actually earn when they pick up extra work (for a start, extra work is not NHS-pensionable).
What is honestly the typical rate per hour and does this include holiday?


I feel like it will be less than triple what teenagers get stacking shelves after tax.
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(Original post by concernedLMAO)
What is honestly the typical rate per hour and does this include holiday?
We don't get paid per hour, and yes also sick pay, annual leave and other benefits - the NHS pension being the most.

I feel like it will be less than triple what teenagers get stacking shelves after tax.
Just the NHS Pension itself would mean that working as a doctor in the NHS is a better choice than working somewhere else.
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Democracy
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(Original post by concernedLMAO)
This is for Sunday shifts. Med students won't pay tax or student loan and the tiniest bit of NI and pension. For a band 2 it is £18.10 * (59/52) (holiday pay) = £20.53. No tax paid obviously, no student loan either and a few pennies on pension and NI. Okay it comes slightly under £20 after this but still.....

For consultant pay google salary after tax calc and type in £100k then £100.1k. You'll get £26 difference. Then apply 13.5% pension rate and you'll get £12.50.
That's not quite what you said So it's (say) £20 ph gross but it's just that the medical student doesn't go above their personal allowance so doesn't get taxed on it. That's different to an hourly rate of "£20 after tax/NI/student loan/pension".

Anyway, I am not going to be one of those annoying people who claims we should accept any salary because we are so blessed to be working in "our NHS" - what a load of nonsense. Big improvements are needed to our working conditions and many doctors would agree that after years of real terms pay cuts, increases in cost of living and record student debt, a pay rise is reasonable. No argument there!
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Chief Wiggum
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(Original post by concernedLMAO)
A senior consultant doctor earning a base salary of £100k takes home approximately £12.50 from a £100 an hour shift after tax, NI, student loan and NHS pension.

A med student on the other hand takes home about £20 after tax/NI/student loan/pension for Sunday HCA shifts or about £15 for Saturday/nights. Thoughts?

How on earth can people expect consultant doctors to pick up extra shifts and get paid less than teenagers on gap year reapplying to med school or a few pounds more than people with zero qualifications working at McDonalds or Tescos?
Consultants picking up extra shifts aren't earning less than medical students picking up HCA shifts, lol.

Consultant locum shifts, waiting list initiatives etc are pretty lucrative.
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DonDuck
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(Original post by concernedLMAO)
For consultant pay google salary after tax calc and type in £100k then £100.1k. You'll get £26 difference. Then apply 13.5% pension rate and you'll get £12.50.
I’m not sure your workings are correct here and I don’t know how you’ve arrived at £12.50 an hour.

A quirk of the UK tax system is that the highest marginal rate of tax applies between £100,000 and £125,140. This is because the personal allowance is withdrawn by £1 for every £2 you earn over £100,000, effectively giving a tax rate of 60% (as the income is taxed at the higher rate of 40% but the taper pushes income previously covered by the personal allowance into the basic rate band).

This abates over £125,140 and the effective marginal tax rate returns to 40%, before reaching the additional rate of 45% on income over £150,000.

The maximum rate I could work out is 60% income tax (due to the personal allowance taper), 2% NIC (increasing to 3.25% next year) and 9% student loan. This gives a maximum effective tax rate of 71%.

Your pension contribution comes off before tax, so assuming a contribution rate of 13.5%, you would have £86.50 of taxable income on that £100. At a marginal tax rate of 71%, that would leave you with take home pay of £25, however, you would also effectively have £13.50 in your pension.

The circumstances to achieve such a high tax rate are very specific in that you wouldn’t expect someone routinely earning £100k per annum to be repaying their student loans for too much longer as they will be paying them back quite quickly (£100k a year salary means you’d be repaying approximately £6.5k a year in loans).

So yes, the rate is extremely punitive between £100k and £125k, but that is as high as it gets.
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Spencer Wells
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(Original post by concernedLMAO)
A senior consultant doctor earning a base salary of £100k takes home approximately £12.50 from a £100 an hour shift after tax, NI, student loan and NHS pension.
No, they really don't. The actual amount I take home on my (slightly more than) £100 an hour shift is £51 per hour [although I've paid of my student loan]
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Little pecker
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Everyone says Doctors get paid wack how these lot making 100k+?
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ecolier
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(Original post by Little pecker)
Everyone says Doctors get paid wack how these lot making 100k+?
https://www.bma.org.uk/pay-and-contr...nts-in-england
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