Covid 19 vaccines

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Meg192501
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#21
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#21
(Original post by hungrysalamander)
None of these are communicable diseases.
Yet they kill just as much if not more
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hungrysalamander
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#22
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#22
(Original post by Meg192501)
Yet they kill just as much if not more
So? What does this have to do with covid? We can't vaccinate against the ones you mentioned, but there are other prevention methods.
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Meg192501
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#23
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#23
(Original post by hungrysalamander)
So? What does this have to do with covid? We can't vaccinate against the ones you mentioned, but there are other prevention methods.
People have had 3 vaccines already and it’s still not under control. Are we meant to run every 6 weeks for the rest of our days?
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madygh13
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#24
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#24
Damn! The number of people who equate freedom to vaccines are crazy. Anyway it’s better not to start a war with antivaxxers because they have their own theories and ideologies like flat-earthers.

I just wish the less fortunate countries could get their share of vaccines instead of these people so that their lives could’ve been saved.

Please get vaccinated people!
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PilgrimOfTruth
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#25
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#25
(Original post by Meg192501)
I have long covid and I’m only 20 but I don’t feel having the vaccine wouldve made a difference
Would have been better to state clearly in the OP that you've already had Covid

On that basis I can't remotely see why you are considering having the vaccines but that's just my opinion.

I personally believe natural immunity to be far superior to any vaccine protection for lots of sound reasons.

With natural immunity you get igG immuno globulins that reside in your nasal passages and mucosa which stop future virus invasions in their tracks before they can get into your body. The popular Dr John Campbell explains it here in his blog video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVl5OkHcvf4

The virus has 28 major elements one of which is that outer spike protein. The vaccines are based on that one aspect the spike protein. Your immune system deals with all 28 aspects. Clear imo which is the better protection. This is all explained in this article:

https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2101/rr-13


I believe I have already had Covid and thus gained natural immunity and consequently have no intention whatsoever of taking the vaccines.
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call1a
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#26
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#26
since everybody here is listing the reasons to get it
here are the reasons i havent

i dont have underlying health conditions
the vaccine is called "experimental"
they have no idea if theres a risk on fertility
they have lied about a lot of things.. who knows?
it was developed very quickly
it doesnt stop you from catching , having , and passing covid so.... ?
i know more people that have died once having the vaccine than of covid
you can have very very bad reactions to it

i am not anti vax and have all of my other vaccine but i dont know this one doesnt sit right with me
Last edited by call1a; 2 weeks ago
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hungrysalamander
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#27
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#27
(Original post by call1a)
since everybody here is listing the reasons to get it
here are the reasons i havent

i dont have underlying health conditions
the vaccine is called "experimental"
there is a higher risk of dying from the vaccine rather than dying of covid
they have no idea if theres a risk on fertility
they have lied about a lot of things.. who knows?
it was developed very quickly
it doesnt stop you from catching , having , and passing covid so.... ?
i know more people that have died once having the vaccine than of covid
you can have very very bad reactions to it

i am not anti vax and have all of my other vaccine but i dont know this one doesnt sit right with me
Where's your source for that? Anecdotes are not valid soures. As for the bad reactions, only 1 in 10k people suffer from myocarditis, which is a lot lower than 2% death rate from COVID. From the ONS, you can see that death rates for unvaccinated individuals are a lot higher than vaccinated individuals and prevents hospitalisation. There are also no current evidence of vaccines reducing fertility.
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PilgrimOfTruth
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#28
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#28
(Original post by hungrysalamander)
which is a lot lower than 2% death rate from COVID.
Surely you mean death rate WITH Covid not FROM Covid ? Please clarify and provide citations if not


(Original post by hungrysalamander)
From the ONS, you can see that death rates for unvaccinated individuals are a lot higher than vaccinated individuals and prevents hospitalisation. There are also no current evidence of vaccines reducing fertility.
Government data shows that the majority of Covid Deaths are the fully vaccinated and have been for months now. Here's the latest report:

https://assets.publishing.service.go...eek_1_2022.pdf


It covers the past 4 weeks as do each of the VS Reports

It states that:

Total Covid Deaths for the period was 2,890

of those 1,949 were the fully vaccinated which is 67%

and just 809 were the unvaccinated which is just 30%


As for "no current evidence of vaccines reducing fertility" or any other adverse effect we can say the same about all manner of things but more and more data is coming to light all the time and thus the situation is an evolving one. That's the by-product of mass vaccinating populations before long term testing of the vaccines has been established imo.

When the drug Thalidomide was first approved people flocked to it and Pharmaceuticals said it was totally safe. People found out about 4 years later the catastrophic truth of the harms it caused.

Similarly the Swine Flu vaccine, Pandemrix, was touted to be effective and safe and many NHS staff were pressured into taking it. It later transpired that some people got life debilitating Narcolepsy from it as well as other horrible reactions. That was ultimately admitted/accepted by the manufacturer and by the CDC and some victims were compensated. Pandemrix was subsequently withdrawn from use in the EU. Citations given below.

In the end the choice to be vaccinated must be a personal one and no-one should be pressured or mandated to take the shots imo. Everyone is at different levels of risk to Covid and the vaccines do NOT come without risk themselves. So it's a personal risk assessment both of Covid itself and of the vaccines.

There are currently millions of adverse vaccine events logged in the various vaccine reporting databases around the world such as the US VAERS system and UK Yellow Card system. Here are some of the more serious conditions reported in VAERS and their numbers. These don't equate to causality but such reports are used to see trends that can be investigated.

ACUTE MYOCARDIAL INFARCTION - 739
MYOCARDIAL INFARCTION - 1,418
MYOCARDITIS - 2,207
DEATH - 7,577
FOETAL DEATH - 101
GAIT DISTURBANCE - 7,282
GAIT INABILITY - 2,164
BLINDNESS - 1,048
VISION BLURRED - 6,837
VISUAL IMPAIRMENT - 3,843
PARAESTHESIA ORAL - 6,583
BELL'S PALSY - 3,316
PULMONARY EMBOLISM - 3,023
ATRIAL FIBRILLATION - 2,477
MENSTRUAL DISORDER - 2,384
INTERMENSTRUAL BLEEDING - 1,256
SPEECH DISORDER - 1,674
MOVEMENT DISORDER - 1,658
VAGINAL HAEMORRHAGE - 1,490
DEAFNESS - 1,381
GUILLAIN-BARRE SYNDROME - 801

From https://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html


I'm more than happy for you to say that these are relatively small numbers compared to the millions who have been vaccinated but that doesn't change for me the fact that the vaccines come with risks and I believe as many do that the reports in VAERS are but a tiny subset of a much wider number of events that don't get reported. Since I believe I've had Covid and that I now have natural immunity I personally see no reason for me to risk any of the above horrible adverse impacts through getting the shots.

Citations:

News Reports of Swine Flu risks and associated material

We may Finally Know why a Flu Vaccine Triggered Narcolepsy
https://www.iflscience.com/health-an...ed-narcolepsy/

CDC Confirmation Of The Risk
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/co...lepsy-flu.html

"An increased risk of narcolepsy was found following vaccination with Pandemrix, a monovalent 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccine that was used in several European countries during the H1N1 influenza pandemic. This risk was initially found in Finland, and then other European countries also detected an association"

EU Withdraw Pandemrix
https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicin...EPAR/pandemrix
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username5890374
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#29
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#29
(Original post by Meg192501)
So I’m 20 and have been debating back and forth wether to get the vaccine or not. I’ve asked my doctor and he didn’t sound confident when advising me. I’m not looking for conspiracy theories or anything and I’m not an anti vaxer but I’m just looking to know what are peoples reasons for getting/not getting it?
..I used to have no problem with needles but a bad experience getting bloods done a while back has sent me over the edge.
…I’m afraid of the unknown and i guess I’m being stubborn because it’s being made to feel like a decision that’s not my own.
…also the theory that it effected fertility is in my head and I don’t think it would matter if I seen someone had a baby after it. It’s like once something has been put there it’s there.
Also the side effects of the injections you get as a baby didn’t come out until 2/3+ years after. It was also developed real quick and I guess I don’t understand why there are different vaccines but the same purpose? It’s all so confusing
Since 90% of the UK population have taken it, I think that says enough. Get jabbed.
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PilgrimOfTruth
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#30
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#30
(Original post by FrustratedMuslim)
Since 90% of the UK population have taken it, I think that says enough. Get jabbed.
That's rather strange logic TBH

Around one in five adults aged 16 to 24 years took a drug last year (21%; approximately 1.3 million people)

Does that mean I should too?

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...ndingmarch2020

No, I don't think so

I'm not interested in what anyone else chooses to do. Each to their own. Live and let live.

We should all make a personal choice on the vaccines, a personal risk assessment based on our personal circumstances.
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booklover1313
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#31
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#31
(Original post by Meg192501)
I have long covid and I’m only 20 but I don’t feel having the vaccine wouldve made a difference
The scientific evidence is that the vaccines are highly safe and effective. Hundreds of millions of doses have been given out, and the vaccine technology has been in development for years beforehand, nothing about it is experimental or unknown.
Many people report that their long covid has actually improved after having a vaccine.
Although you have already had it, you are still very vulnerable to catching omicron/new variants. Having the vaccine is incredibly quick, easy, painless, and most of all... PROTECTS you and others around you. 100% go for it. If you have any questions, go along to the vaccine centre and ask them there. Don't trust any 'information' you see about the vaccines on social media like facebook unless it is from the NHS or another reputable source.
These are doctors and highly trained scientists who designed these vaccines, they would never approve anything for use if they had any worries about it. Trust the doctors.
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booklover1313
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#32
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#32
(Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
That's rather strange logic TBH

Around one in five adults aged 16 to 24 years took a drug last year (21%; approximately 1.3 million people)

Does that mean I should too?

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...ndingmarch2020

No, I don't think so

I'm not interested in what anyone else chooses to do. Each to their own. Live and let live.

We should all make a personal choice on the vaccines, a personal risk assessment based on our personal circumstances.
The difference between taking 'a drug' and having the vaccine is that the vaccine protects those around you, and not just yourself. Although you may not think you would, statistically speaking, not become very ill if you caught covid, that isn't an argument for not getting vaccinated, because by getting vaccinated you are protecting the people who are likely to get ill.
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Jonathanツ
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#33
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#33
I recently got my first vaccine after having doubts (plus I'm really scared of needles)

As an 18-year-old, ill probably not get any serious effects even if I did get covid, but I basically just ended up getting it because I'm sick of not being allowed to large events...

Sounds selfish, but I think it's ridiculous that unvaccinated people basically have fewer rights to do things.... and honestly I feel pretty ashamed of myself for getting my vaccine simply because of this.
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booklover1313
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#34
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#34
(Original post by Jonathanツ)
I recently got my first vaccine after having doubts (plus I'm really scared of needles)

As an 18-year-old, ill probably not get any serious effects even if I did get covid, but I basically just ended up getting it because I'm sick of not being allowed to large events...

Sounds selfish, but I think it's ridiculous that unvaccinated people basically have fewer rights to do things.... and honestly I feel pretty ashamed of myself for getting my vaccine simply because of this.
It's the opposite! You should be really proud that you did it, despite feeling a bit nervous and being scared of needles. You should be excited that you are now more protected, that others around you are more protected, and that you can now be safer whilst going about your daily life.
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TCA2b
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#35
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#35
(Original post by booklover1313)
The difference between taking 'a drug' and having the vaccine is that the vaccine protects those around you, and not just yourself. Although you may not think you would, statistically speaking, not become very ill if you caught covid, that isn't an argument for not getting vaccinated, because by getting vaccinated you are protecting the people who are likely to get ill.
But the vaccine itself is meant to do that.
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hungrysalamander
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#36
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#36
(Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
Surely you mean death rate WITH Covid not FROM Covid ? Please clarify and provide citations if not




Government data shows that the majority of Covid Deaths are the fully vaccinated and have been for months now. Here's the latest report:

https://assets.publishing.service.go...eek_1_2022.pdf


It covers the past 4 weeks as do each of the VS Reports

It states that:

Total Covid Deaths for the period was 2,890

of those 1,949 were the fully vaccinated which is 67%

and just 809 were the unvaccinated which is just 30%


As for "no current evidence of vaccines reducing fertility" or any other adverse effect we can say the same about all manner of things but more and more data is coming to light all the time and thus the situation is an evolving one. That's the by-product of mass vaccinating populations before long term testing of the vaccines has been established imo.

When the drug Thalidomide was first approved people flocked to it and Pharmaceuticals said it was totally safe. People found out about 4 years later the catastrophic truth of the harms it caused.

Similarly the Swine Flu vaccine, Pandemrix, was touted to be effective and safe and many NHS staff were pressured into taking it. It later transpired that some people got life debilitating Narcolepsy from it as well as other horrible reactions. That was ultimately admitted/accepted by the manufacturer and by the CDC and some victims were compensated. Pandemrix was subsequently withdrawn from use in the EU. Citations given below.

In the end the choice to be vaccinated must be a personal one and no-one should be pressured or mandated to take the shots imo. Everyone is at different levels of risk to Covid and the vaccines do NOT come without risk themselves. So it's a personal risk assessment both of Covid itself and of the vaccines.

There are currently millions of adverse vaccine events logged in the various vaccine reporting databases around the world such as the US VAERS system and UK Yellow Card system. Here are some of the more serious conditions reported in VAERS and their numbers. These don't equate to causality but such reports are used to see trends that can be investigated.

ACUTE MYOCARDIAL INFARCTION - 739
MYOCARDIAL INFARCTION - 1,418
MYOCARDITIS - 2,207
DEATH - 7,577
FOETAL DEATH - 101
GAIT DISTURBANCE - 7,282
GAIT INABILITY - 2,164
BLINDNESS - 1,048
VISION BLURRED - 6,837
VISUAL IMPAIRMENT - 3,843
PARAESTHESIA ORAL - 6,583
BELL'S PALSY - 3,316
PULMONARY EMBOLISM - 3,023
ATRIAL FIBRILLATION - 2,477
MENSTRUAL DISORDER - 2,384
INTERMENSTRUAL BLEEDING - 1,256
SPEECH DISORDER - 1,674
MOVEMENT DISORDER - 1,658
VAGINAL HAEMORRHAGE - 1,490
DEAFNESS - 1,381
GUILLAIN-BARRE SYNDROME - 801

From https://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html


I'm more than happy for you to say that these are relatively small numbers compared to the millions who have been vaccinated but that doesn't change for me the fact that the vaccines come with risks and I believe as many do that the reports in VAERS are but a tiny subset of a much wider number of events that don't get reported. Since I believe I've had Covid and that I now have natural immunity I personally see no reason for me to risk any of the above horrible adverse impacts through getting the shots.

Citations:

News Reports of Swine Flu risks and associated material

We may Finally Know why a Flu Vaccine Triggered Narcolepsy
https://www.iflscience.com/health-an...ed-narcolepsy/

CDC Confirmation Of The Risk
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/co...lepsy-flu.html

"An increased risk of narcolepsy was found following vaccination with Pandemrix, a monovalent 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccine that was used in several European countries during the H1N1 influenza pandemic. This risk was initially found in Finland, and then other European countries also detected an association"

EU Withdraw Pandemrix
https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicin...EPAR/pandemrix
Is there a difference between dying from or with covid?
As for the hospitalisation statistics you do realise that 80% of the population is fully vaccinated; 90% have at least 1 dose, which is higher than the % of daths for covid patiends. Anything comes with risks, you might get in a car accident by driving, does that mean that you will not drive? It's about assessing the cost to benefit ratio, which you have decided costs more than its benefits so I won't bother to change your mind. We had 2 choices: release the vaccine or possibly cause more deaths from witholding it, either choice would cause harm.
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booklover1313
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#37
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#37
(Original post by TCA2b)
But the vaccine itself is meant to do that.
Could you clarify what you mean, I don't get your point?
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Jonathanツ
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#38
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#38
(Original post by booklover1313)
It's the opposite! You should be really proud that you did it, despite feeling a bit nervous and being scared of needles. You should be excited that you are now more protected, that others around you are more protected, and that you can now be safer whilst going about your daily life.
Yeah I suppose your right, I'm glad I got the vaccine, It's just my reasons for getting it are what I dislike
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aliaa03
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#39
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#39
looking at the figures from march 2020 compared to now shows the difference the vaccine made. back in march, when we had like 30k cases, we had thousands being admitted in the hospitals and hundreds dying every day, now although we do have more recorded cases (due to mass testing we didn't have before), despite being up in the region of 100k cases, we are averaging around 40-150 deaths a day.

I admit its not good to have any deaths at all, but compared to the thousands of deaths we were having in 2020 without a vaccine, the figures HAVE gotten much better and the amount of people in ICU's in hospitals or with severe illness has reduced because of the vaccine which allows your immune system to develop antibodies to the virus so it can respond much faster if you do come into contact with the covid virus and prevents you getting seriously ill.

I cry every time I have to get an injection despite being 18, and when I once got admitted to a hospital I screamed and cried throughout all the blood tests, and it was so easy to avoid having a covid vaccine but I got mine anyway to protect myself and my family and im proud of myself for that lmao
Last edited by aliaa03; 2 weeks ago
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PilgrimOfTruth
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#40
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#40
(Original post by booklover1313)
The scientific evidence is that the vaccines are highly safe and effective.
Surely that refers to SHORT term safety given the vaccines have only been in use for about a year and long term testing is still underway?

Both Pfizer and Moderna vaccine trials are running for 2 years as stated here:

Pfizer - https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577

"Assessment of long-term safety and efficacy for this vaccine will occur, but it cannot be in the context of maintaining a placebo group for the planned follow-up period of 2 years after the second dose."


Moderna - https://www.modernatx.com/covid19vac...cal-trial-data

"Participants were monitored for unsolicited adverse events for up to 28 days following each dose and follow-up is ongoing.
Serious adverse events and medically attended adverse events will be recorded for the entire study duration of 2 years."



(Original post by booklover1313)
Hundreds of millions of doses have been given out, and the vaccine technology has been in development for years beforehand, nothing about it is experimental or unknown.
I think it's wrong and somewhat disingenuous to equate "development" with "clinical testing". They are not the same thing at all.
That's why they HAD to conduct vaccine trials with controlled human groups, Phases 1, 2 and 3. As shown above the Phase 3 trials will run for 2 years and so are on-going.

Certainly SHORT term safety is looking good from the millions of doses administered though there are of course millions of adverse vaccine reaction events logged in database like the US VAERS system (see post #32 above for details)


(Original post by booklover1313)
Many people report that their long covid has actually improved after having a vaccine.
Although you have already had it, you are still very vulnerable to catching omicron/new variants.
Can you define vulnerable here please ?

Numerous studies attest that once you have natural immunity your chances of re-infections are very drastically reduced, up to 91% in one study and even if you were re-infected I would personally expect that to be asymptomatic or mild. I've seen only a couple of anecdotal reports of people getting Covid twice and the 2nd time being more serious than the first. I've seen absolutely no formal peer-reviewed studies that suggest re-infections are in any way serious for any significant number of people.

SARS-CoV-2 re-infection risk in Austria
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eci.13520

"We recorded 40 tentative re-infections in 14,840 COVID-19 survivors of the first wave (0.27%)
and 253,581 infections in 8,885,640 individuals of the remaining general population (2.85%)
translating into an odds ratio (95% confidence interval) of 0.09 (0.07 to 0.13)."

Key messages

"In this study in the whole general population in Austria with a follow-up of over half a year, those individuals with a previous SARS-CoV-2 infection had a significant reduction by 91% for the odds of a re-infection versus the odds of a first infection in the remainder general population.

Protection against SARS-CoV-2 after natural infection is comparable with the highest available estimates on vaccine efficacies."


(Original post by booklover1313)
Having the vaccine is incredibly quick, easy, painless, and most of all... PROTECTS you and others around you.
Fully vaccinated people still get Covid and transmit it to others. Currently the vast majority of all Covid Cases are the fully vaccinated. They are 65% of all cases vs the unvaccinated who are 21% as stated in the VS Report here:

https://assets.publishing.service.go...eek_1_2022.pdf


(Original post by booklover1313)
These are doctors and highly trained scientists who designed these vaccines, they would never approve anything for use if they had any worries about it. Trust the doctors.
I don't share your sentiments because of incidents like these:

Johnson and Johnson
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/19/b...s-stopped.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/14/b...n-johnson.html

"Finally J&J was fined $2.2bn in 2013 to 'resolve criminal liability arising from the promotion of' prescription drugs with dangerous side effects
for purposes not approved as safe by the FDA, as well as paying doctors and pharmacies 'kickbacks' for promoting the drugs: "

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/johns...investigations

AstraZeneca

2010 - Drug Giant AstraZeneca to Pay $520 Million to Settle Fraud Case

"April 27, 2010— -- Pharmaceutical giant AstraZeneca will pay $520 million in fines to settle charges by the federal government that it illegally marketed the anti-psychotic drug Seroquel to children and elderly patients for uses not approved by the Food and Drug Administration.

"AstraZeneca paid $355 million in 2003 after pleading guilty to charges that it encouraged physicians to illegally request Medicare reimbursements for its cancer drug Zoladex, and bribed doctors to buy it."

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Heal...ry?id=10488647


Pfizer

2009 - Justice Department Announces Largest Health Care Fraud Settlement in Its History

"American pharmaceutical giant Pfizer Inc. and its subsidiary Pharmacia & Upjohn Company Inc. (hereinafter together "Pfizer") have agreed to pay $2.3 billion, the largest health care fraud settlement in the history of the Department of Justice, to resolve criminal and civil liability arising from the illegal promotion of certain pharmaceutical products"

"In addition, Pfizer has agreed to pay $1 billion to resolve allegations under the civil False Claims Act that the company illegally promoted four drugs – Bextra; Geodon, an anti-psychotic drug; Zyvox, an antibiotic; and Lyrica, an anti-epileptic drug – and caused false claims to be submitted to government health care programs for uses that were not medically accepted indications and therefore not covered by those programs. The civil settlement also resolves allegations that Pfizer paid kickbacks to health care providers to induce them to prescribe these, as well as other, drugs. The federal share of the civil settlement is $668,514,830 and the state Medicaid share of the civil settlement is $331,485,170. This is the largest civil fraud settlement in history against a pharmaceutical company"

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justi...nt-its-history
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