Car insurance cancelled after write off

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nounsername
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#1
Report Thread starter 3 months ago
#1
Hey everyone, so my partner was involved in a car crash a few months ago (he slipped on black ice but was deemed his fault, ice was contributing factor). He wrote his car off, and has received a payout. Unfortunately he also suffered a broken collar bone from the accident, putting him completely off the roads for two months while it heals.

He received a letter from his insurance provider, Hastings, yesterday stating that they have cancelled his policy. He knew he would have to pay for the whole policy and loose his NCD, so knew his insurance would be pricey, and now he's mostly healed he's looking at a new car. This issue now is that, without claiming he has had a policy cancelled his insurance quote is £900, but claiming he has had a policy cancelled it would shoot up to £4000. I personally find this ridiculous as - legally- he didn't do anything wrong, so now he has to claim his policy was cancelled because his car was written off? 100s of cars are written off every day, do they all have the same issue? Tried to talk to Hastings on the phone today but the phone went dead as they were "experiencing high call volumes".

Just for reference it does say that he cant transfer another car onto the policy after 30 days of the accident, however we didn't think we would now have to pay 4x the normal premium because he didn't immediately have a car to insure/couldn't drive.

So really the question is, when it comes to renew the insurance, will he have to declare he has had an insurance policy cancelled?
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Muttly
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#2
Report 3 months ago
#2
If the policy was cancelled for fraudulent or untruthful reasons yes he would.

If it was the closure of a policy after all claims had been processed as normal no he wouldn't.

After a partial blame type collision similar premiums would be applied or if the driver had no NCD and was an inexperienced driver the premiums would still be horrific? The proposal and collision information are shared across all insurance companies - so not declaring any policy cancellation would not help your friend whatsoever. You can always ring Hastings and ask them if this is a cancellation you need to declare? If it is a standard closure of an insurance policy by vehicle write off then the information is covered by the question Q Have you had any accidents or claims in the last 5 years?

The collision claim could indicate high risk. If conditions were icy and didn't involve any third party and your friend 'totalled' the car then it would tend to suggest driving above speeds that were safe for the road coupled with a lack of awareness of the risk posed by sub zero temperatures?

The circumstances could indicate that there is a lot of missing and unsaid information here?
Do you know what was declared on the insurance proposal when the insurance was first taken out or what the circumstances of the collision were? (if you weren't there) If the insurance claim is settled, and paid out the insurance company might cancel the rest of the policy (if there is no car to reinsure) But that doesn't seem to be the case here. You wouldn't normally lose NCD on one blameworthy accident? Have there been previous ones?

Insurance companies make enquiries into every detail given on a proposal and the circumstances of a collision to verify if the truth has been provided in the original proposal and to refuse a payout for the claim if something is badly amiss? If there was injury it would be likely the police attended so the insurance company can also ask the police for a copy of their reports. If there is injury or damage to a third party they can and will pay out to the third party, but if the insurance company later finds there is an issue with the policy holder they can then claim it back as a civil claim.

The Accident - red flags
If there is evidence of drink or drug use in the accident or someone failed to stop and the police made enquiries which tended to suggest it was the policy holder driving but couldn't prove it?
There is evidence of excessive speed in the accident? (from the vehicle telematics and witnesses or dashcam)
The car had bald tyres or was generally unroadworthy?
The car MOT had run out?
The driver was a provisional licence holder unsupervised?
There was evidence of the driver using their mobile phone, texting, calling etc?
Evidence of making false claims?


Insurance schedule
You have contravened a clause in the insurance (used it overnight if that applied)
You have failed to declare an occupation or have allowed someone else to use the car?
You have proposed yourself as a named occasional driver and clearly you are the main user?
You have any driving convictions or pending cases that were undeclared?
Previous collisions - unreported?
A large number of miles on the clock and you have exceeded the original proposed estimate?

The above are just a few reasons why insurance companies can refuse insurance, cancel it or just load premiums.

High premiums can be for the driver age coupled with high risk that makes for a high premium (newly qualified?) Insurance companies have claims investigators who look on face book and other social media sites to see what people have put or bragged about. They see pictures, posts and comments from friends or others. They can search CCTV, dash cams and other evidence. Such is the importance of being truthful on the insurance proposal questions.

Good luck - I hope you can find some insurance that is less than a queens ransom and everything is eventually sorted out?
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nounsername
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#3
Report Thread starter 3 months ago
#3
(Original post by Muttly)
If the policy was cancelled for fraudulent or untruthful reasons yes he would.

If it was the closure of a policy after all claims had been processed as normal no he wouldn't.

After a partial blame type collision similar premiums would be applied or if the driver had no NCD and was an inexperienced driver the premiums would still be horrific? The proposal and collision information are shared across all insurance companies - so not declaring any policy cancellation would not help your friend whatsoever. You can always ring Hastings and ask them if this is a cancellation you need to declare? If it is a standard closure of an insurance policy by vehicle write off then the information is covered by the question Q Have you had any accidents or claims in the last 5 years?

The collision claim could indicate high risk. If conditions were icy and didn't involve any third party and your friend 'totalled' the car then it would tend to suggest driving above speeds that were safe for the road coupled with a lack of awareness of the risk posed by sub zero temperatures?

The circumstances could indicate that there is a lot of missing and unsaid information here?
Do you know what was declared on the insurance proposal when the insurance was first taken out or what the circumstances of the collision were? (if you weren't there) If the insurance claim is settled, and paid out the insurance company might cancel the rest of the policy (if there is no car to reinsure) But that doesn't seem to be the case here. You wouldn't normally lose NCD on one blameworthy accident? Have there been previous ones?

Insurance companies make enquiries into every detail given on a proposal and the circumstances of a collision to verify if the truth has been provided in the original proposal and to refuse a payout for the claim if something is badly amiss? If there was injury it would be likely the police attended so the insurance company can also ask the police for a copy of their reports. If there is injury or damage to a third party they can and will pay out to the third party, but if the insurance company later finds there is an issue with the policy holder they can then claim it back as a civil claim.

The Accident - red flags
If there is evidence of drink or drug use in the accident or someone failed to stop and the police made enquiries which tended to suggest it was the policy holder driving but couldn't prove it?
There is evidence of excessive speed in the accident? (from the vehicle telematics and witnesses or dashcam)
The car had bald tyres or was generally unroadworthy?
The car MOT had run out?
The driver was a provisional licence holder unsupervised?
There was evidence of the driver using their mobile phone, texting, calling etc?
Evidence of making false claims?


Insurance schedule
You have contravened a clause in the insurance (used it overnight if that applied)
You have failed to declare an occupation or have allowed someone else to use the car?
You have proposed yourself as a named occasional driver and clearly you are the main user?
You have any driving convictions or pending cases that were undeclared?
Previous collisions - unreported?
A large number of miles on the clock and you have exceeded the original proposed estimate?

The above are just a few reasons why insurance companies can refuse insurance, cancel it or just load premiums.

High premiums can be for the driver age coupled with high risk that makes for a high premium (newly qualified?) Insurance companies have claims investigators who look on face book and other social media sites to see what people have put or bragged about. They see pictures, posts and comments from friends or others. They can search CCTV, dash cams and other evidence. Such is the importance of being truthful on the insurance proposal questions.

Good luck - I hope you can find some insurance that is less than a queens ransom and everything is eventually sorted out?
Some more information,
The accident occurred at night time as he was picking up a friend from a night out. He got tested at the road side, which he passed both the drinks and drug test. He didn't have a black box so there was no time restrict. He submitted dash cam footage and was shown to be under the speed limit. Legally nothing was amiss with the crash nor the policy. He has been driving for 3 years and this was his first claim. His insurance was all up to date. He went into the wing of an oncoming van, where only wing/bumper damage occurred.

From the dashcam footage provided, both insurance companies deemed him to be at fault. Legally he was doing nothing wrong, but considering the conditions he should of been going a bit slower as it was a bendy road.

The 3rd party didn't sustain any injuries and the van was repairable, my partners car was not. My partner also sustained a broken collar bone, hence why he couldn't drive.

Payout for the claim has already been completed, was just a shock when they cancelled the policy. The only line in the policy about this issue states 'if you wish to ensure another car on the policy as a replacement, this must be done within 30 days of the claim date'.

The quotes we have been looking at are with all his details, including the write of and 'at blame' etc, just interchanging between yes to insurance cancelled and no, this is why we really need to know if it will be classed as a cancellation or not. They used the word cancelled in the letter.

There have been no previous claims, however his NCB wasnt protected as it wasnt over 5 years.
Last edited by nounsername; 3 months ago
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Admit-One
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#4
Report 3 months ago
#4
(Original post by nounsername)
The quotes we have been looking at are with all his details, including the write of and 'at blame' etc, just interchanging between yes to insurance cancelled and no, this is why we really need to know if it will be classed as a cancellation or not. They used the word cancelled in the letter.
If they specified that it was being cancelled, then he'll have to declare it as such I'm afraid.

Obviously the quote difference is big and it may be appealing to omit this, but they'll either check this at the point of onboarding, or worse still at the point of making any future claim. If they find out at that stage then they'll refuse to pay out and he'll be in a huge heap of trouble.
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Muttly
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#5
Report 3 months ago
#5
Usually having insurance 'cancelled' is where the insurance company remove the right for you to have insurance (usually due to fraud, misrepresentation or dishonesty) They 'forcibly' decline to insure you and remove your policy.

From what you have explained this cancellation sounds a 'normal' company process. If you sell a car, and don't get another mid term after informing the insurance company the remainder of the insurance is cancelled - The insurance company (not all insurance companies do) send a letter to you stating 'YOUR INSURANCE HAS BEEN CANCELLED' This is so there are no mistakes if you later claim you had no idea that there was no longer an insurance policy in force (It is the Insurance company self protection process)

If you do not get another car with Hastings and it is written into the insurance policy about the 'after 30 days' ... this seems a normal practice too and they are covering their bases to notify you. It is not a cancellation under fraud, dishonesty etc

It sounds like in your case this is not a major issue - it is normal insurance company practice. To save any worry just ring Hastings and ask them if this is a forced insurance cancellation notice of concern or a normal policy communication.

Your quoted premium sadly is also normal given the recent 'blame' accident and No NCD. I don't think its anything to do with 'cancelled insurance' First time drivers with no NCD getting their first car have been quoted even higher. It is a horrific eye watering sum but the payouts for seriously injured/fatal crashes in the the first year of unsupervised driving are huge.
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nounsername
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#6
Report Thread starter 3 months ago
#6
(Original post by Muttly)
Usually having insurance 'cancelled' is where the insurance company remove the right for you to have insurance (usually due to fraud, misrepresentation or dishonesty) They 'forcibly' decline to insure you and remove your policy.

From what you have explained this cancellation sounds a 'normal' company process. If you sell a car, and don't get another mid term after informing the insurance company the remainder of the insurance is cancelled - The insurance company (not all insurance companies do) send a letter to you stating 'YOUR INSURANCE HAS BEEN CANCELLED' This is so there are no mistakes if you later claim you had no idea that there was no longer an insurance policy in force (It is the Insurance company self protection process)

If you do not get another car with Hastings and it is written into the insurance policy about the 'after 30 days' ... this seems a normal practice too and they are covering their bases to notify you. It is not a cancellation under fraud, dishonesty etc

It sounds like in your case this is not a major issue - it is normal insurance company practice. To save any worry just ring Hastings and ask them if this is a forced insurance cancellation notice of concern or a normal policy communication.

Your quoted premium sadly is also normal given the recent 'blame' accident and No NCD. I don't think its anything to do with 'cancelled insurance' First time drivers with no NCD getting their first car have been quoted even higher. It is a horrific eye watering sum but the payouts for seriously injured/fatal crashes in the the first year of unsupervised driving are huge.
(Original post by Admit-One)
If they specified that it was being cancelled, then he'll have to declare it as such I'm afraid.

Obviously the quote difference is big and it may be appealing to omit this, but they'll either check this at the point of onboarding, or worse still at the point of making any future claim. If they find out at that stage then they'll refuse to pay out and he'll be in a huge heap of trouble.
UPDATE: just got off the phone with Hastings (only took 3 hours lol) and they said that as it was cancelled due to total loss, we will not be required to declare this going forward as it is part of the claim details which we would register in the claims or accident part. We have this in writing, as both an email and a letter which will be sent through shortly.
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nounsername
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#7
Report Thread starter 3 months ago
#7
(Original post by Muttly)
Usually having insurance 'cancelled' is where the insurance company remove the right for you to have insurance (usually due to fraud, misrepresentation or dishonesty) They 'forcibly' decline to insure you and remove your policy.

From what you have explained this cancellation sounds a 'normal' company process. If you sell a car, and don't get another mid term after informing the insurance company the remainder of the insurance is cancelled - The insurance company (not all insurance companies do) send a letter to you stating 'YOUR INSURANCE HAS BEEN CANCELLED' This is so there are no mistakes if you later claim you had no idea that there was no longer an insurance policy in force (It is the Insurance company self protection process)

If you do not get another car with Hastings and it is written into the insurance policy about the 'after 30 days' ... this seems a normal practice too and they are covering their bases to notify you. It is not a cancellation under fraud, dishonesty etc

It sounds like in your case this is not a major issue - it is normal insurance company practice. To save any worry just ring Hastings and ask them if this is a forced insurance cancellation notice of concern or a normal policy communication.

Your quoted premium sadly is also normal given the recent 'blame' accident and No NCD. I don't think its anything to do with 'cancelled insurance' First time drivers with no NCD getting their first car have been quoted even higher. It is a horrific eye watering sum but the payouts for seriously injured/fatal crashes in the the first year of unsupervised driving are huge.
UPDATE: just got off the phone with Hastings (only took 3 hours lol) and they said that as it was cancelled due to total loss, we will not be required to declare this going forward as it is part of the claim details which we would register in the claims or accident part. We have this in writing, as both an email and a letter which will be sent through shortly.

Oh and I know about premiums when i first insured my little 1leiter, the cheapest I found was £1320 with a black box
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Admit-One
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#8
Report 3 months ago
#8
(Original post by nounsername)
UPDATE: just got off the phone with Hastings (only took 3 hours lol) and they said that as it was cancelled due to total loss, we will not be required to declare this going forward as it is part of the claim details which we would register in the claims or accident part. We have this in writing, as both an email and a letter which will be sent through shortly.
In that case it's just the policy being wound up as Muttly suggested. Perhaps would have saved you 3 hours if they had used a different word than 'cancelled' in their previous communication. Oh well.
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Muttly
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#9
Report 3 months ago
#9
A bit more of an add on - In case this helps .....

Insurance is based on risk - you as driver and the vehicle risk (the costs of the vehicle to replace parts and the damage it can inflict on people in the shortest possible time ie bhp, cc , modifications)

Have you tried (& keep trying) different insurers or try any of the specialised insurers for young drivers? Ring them and make contact and ask how you can get a reduced premium as the ones they have quoted are ridiculously priced (if you can get through?)

If you use comparison sites - Be aware of the business model used by some insurers - Some insurers go by the amount of business they have in a day as well as your own calculated risk. If they get to the end of the week/month and they haven't had their quota they can put the premiums down in price to attract new policies. I've done this and had success at daft times of night - near to midnight on a Sunday to search for better quotes. I rang and told Admiral their quote was too high (for a car) and they said ring Bewiser (one of their associated companies) who gave me a far better premium.

If you don't have any NCD you are pretty much stuck. The aim is go for the absolute cheapest and drive like Grandma and get a year under your belt with no claims or amendments to policy. Most that offer cheap policies are high on admin fees. Most comparison sites use a select number of insurers. Many insurers are interlinked and have 'sister' companies through the main umbrella company. Different comparison sites have some different insurers (do check) Just research which companies are linked. They are all after profit.

Be aware every time you submit info for quotes that the industry keeps a record of the information you submit and it is on a communal sharing data base if other insurers want to see it (I'm sure the monopolies commission would have a thing to say about that)
Check out the hidden admin costs on all policies - cancellation; amendments; policy inception fees; the list goes on and is a money making disgrace. Some online insurers do not charge amendment fees for say new telephone number, colour of car etc etc - I hate it when the first question some insurers ask is - what have you been quoted!!!!! And then won't go any further until you have told them.

Can you car share with an older person or be a named driver on a policy? - Do be open and upfront about who is the main driver

Can you keep your car at a different postcode? - again be honest and do not lie

Can you have a 'black box' fitted? - consider the constraints of curfews, costs of removing it ; incorrect data issues or cancellation fees changing company

Rospa do advanced driving courses for a small fee - just do one of these. This is an absolute no brainer if you want to learn to drive safely and defensively.

Some insurance companies offer premium reductions for Rospa courses. There is Pass plus but I've yet to find an insurance company that lowered the premium enough to justify the costs of the Pass Plus course. The course is pretty limited but I won't ever knock having extra knowledge which could improve your driving and perhaps save you crashing. This is one time age has its advantages for car insurance - albeit for some wisdom does not grow with age!!!

Your licence might have points or convictions that can make insurance stupidly expensive - there is not much you can do about that aside from don't get any more (fix the cause - you!) and cough up. There will be an end date when the pain stops (4yrs on licence for most (3yrs for totting up) unless its the dreaded DR codes or CD40 + (Then it is 11yrs on licence 10yrs for consideration at court (with some exceptions) For some this makes them totally uninsurable after disqualification, and no matter they will never get insurance unless they pay astronomical money (just get a house)

Work on the cheapest premium where you will never have to contact your insurer for another year to avoid all admin costs and get your NCD and become a good risk.
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Muttly
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#10
Report 3 months ago
#10
Woohoo I've just seen your Hastings update. Now you need a lie down in a darkened room to recover from the time it took on hold?

Good luck premium 'trawling'
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