Teaching LGBTQ+ to kids.

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Evan2002
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#1
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#1
I don’t really agree with primary schools teaching kids about LGBTQ+. Unless it’s in Sex Ed in Year 6. When I have kids in the future, I’d prefer to use the “I’ll tell you when you are older” line when they are aged 5. Am I unreasonable?
I think the same thing actually with the birds and the bees talk.
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Angel in the sky
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Nowadays if they are not told at home or school they will still learn and be told somewhere
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Crazed cat lady
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Yes, you are being unreasonable.

For most people, teaching children the factual reality that LGBT people exist is not the least bit controversial.
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Justvisited
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(Original post by Crazed cat lady)
Yes, you are being unreasonable.

For most people, teaching children the factual reality that LGBT people exist is not the least bit controversial.
Regardless of that, it's not a particularly practical piece of general knowledge for them to have as they go through puberty, compared to how reproduction happens and issues surrounding this.

Besides, no special effort is made to inform even secondary school pupils of the mere existence of many minorities larger than this one. In that context, a focus on it does look strange.
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BurstingBubbles
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(Original post by Evan2002)
I don’t really agree with primary schools teaching kids about LGBTQ+. Unless it’s in Sex Ed in Year 6. When I have kids in the future, I’d prefer to use the “I’ll tell you when you are older” line when they are aged 5. Am I unreasonable?
I think the same thing actually with the birds and the bees talk.
It depends on what LGBTQ+ stuff you mean? If it's sexual then no, not at the age of 5, but you wouldn't teach that about straight relationships. Anything you teach about straight relationships e.g. the existence of a relationship, should also be taught that people can fall in love with the same gender, people having two Mums/Dads etc. imo. If not, then you are censoring it as if it's an issue and therefore this can come across as homophobic. Talking about LGBTQ+ things, won't cause a child to be LGBTQ+. Keep it simple and light, like you would about straight relationships - not that difficult
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Crazed cat lady
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(Original post by Justvisited)
Besides, no special effort is made to inform even secondary school pupils of the mere existence of many minorities larger than this one. In that context, a focus on it does look strange.
Such as?
Last edited by Crazed cat lady; 3 months ago
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Fenneko
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(Original post by Crazed cat lady)
Yes, you are being unreasonable.

For most people, teaching children the factual reality that LGBT people exist is not the least bit controversial.
It's not just about teaching children that LGBT people exist though, is it? You're telling them that LGBT relationships are healthy and fine, which is a values thing. Universal values like the importance of sharing, being honest, and following rules are taught in schools because they are, well, universal.

Not everyone agrees on the morality of LGBT relationships. Your insistence that it should be taught in schools shows a lack of empathy for parents whose views differ from your own.
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londonmyst
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#8
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My stance on this issue is likely to be viewed as controversial.
I agree with teaching 4 year olds that a variety of families & different types of lawful relationships between couples exist in the uk.
With some age appropriate attempts to explain the laws of the country in relation to ages, consent, adoption, marriage and civil partnerships.
Sex education only taught to older primary school children in y5-6, with the more detailed information only taught to teenagers.

I was taught about other peoples religions, violent family customs and the harsh laws of overseas regimes that have theocratic governance before I was old enough to start school- by very bad apples with a variety of sinister indoctrination agendas.
They were seeking to impose their foul lifestyles & ideologies upon me, in a way that glorified their own interpretation of ancient religion and were willing to resort to horrifying tactics in order to facilitate their aim.
If primary schools (and possibly nurseries for older toddlers) do not teach the next generation the laws of the land and widespread social elements of uk life, others will attempt to fill the gap.
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Crazed cat lady
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(Original post by Joel 96)
Universal values like the importance of sharing, being honest, and following rules are taught in schools because they are, well, universal.
I have absolutely zero idea where you got this idea from. The DfE, Ofsted, etc. profoundly disagree with you. Vague commitments to so-called universal values is not part of British pedagogy. The actual reality is that maintained schools must construct their curriculum so that they promote, to quote the 2002 Education Act, "the spiritual, moral, cultural, mental and physical development of pupils at the school and of society". The current "British values" approach to SMSC development brought in by The Conservative Party looks like this. That includes promoting the idea that it is okay to be in a same sex relationship, as well as it is okay to be of a particular faith, or it is okay to not have sex before marriage, etc.

Not everyone agrees on the morality of LGBT relationships. Your insistence that it should be taught in schools shows a lack of empathy for parents whose views differ from your own.
I regret to inform you that the fabled golden age where conservative Christian morality dominated Britain and gay people were marginalised, persecuted, criminalised, chemically castrated, etc. is behind us.
Last edited by Crazed cat lady; 3 months ago
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Fenneko
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(Original post by Crazed cat lady)
I have absolutely zero idea where you got this idea from. The DfE, Ofsted, etc. profoundly disagree with you. Vague commitments to so-called universal values is not part of British pedagogy. The actual reality is that maintained schools must construct their curriculum so that they promote, to quote the 2002 Education Act, "the spiritual, moral, cultural, mental and physical development of pupils at the school and of society". The current "British values" approach to SMSC development brought in by The Conservative Party looks like this. That includes promoting the idea that it is okay to be in a same sex relationship, as well as it is okay to be of a particular faith, or it is okay to not have sex before marriage, etc.
I wasn't quoting the 2002 Education Act, nor was I appealing to the present. I was explaining to you the difference between universal values and other values that aren't universal. There is not one parent who's against the teaching of universal values like honesty and sharing.

You will, however, find that there are a significant number of parents who are against the teaching of LGBT in schools because it is not a value that they agree with. Thus, if you have a divide, then it is not a good idea to have that value taught in schools.

(Original post by Crazed cat lady)
I regret to inform you that the fabled golden age where conservative Christian morality dominated Britain and gay people were marginalised, persecuted, criminalised, chemically castrated, etc. is behind us.
In no way does not teaching LGBT dogma in schools result in the things you've mentioned.
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username5794123
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More context is required to deem whether this is (subjectively) unreasonable. What aspects of LGBT+ are they teaching exactly?
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flamingolover
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(Original post by Evan2002)
I don’t really agree with primary schools teaching kids about LGBTQ+. Unless it’s in Sex Ed in Year 6. When I have kids in the future, I’d prefer to use the “I’ll tell you when you are older” line when they are aged 5. Am I unreasonable?
I think the same thing actually with the birds and the bees talk.
Surely by deliberatly not teaching we are sending a message that it’s something that shouldn’t be talked about. I think there’s levels to it. I don’t think we should go into details but I think kids from the age of about 7/8 should be taught what the terms mean. I.e what is gay and what is straight etc and whatever they end up being is okay.

When I was 8 I had a lesson in school about how adult men where going to make me take my clothes off and take photos of me. I think compared to that teaching kids about lgbtq+ seems a lot more reasonable.
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username5637224
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#13
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#13
Up until young people are of an age to understand sex education they should only be taught the importance of being able to give and receive love. By drawing attention to LGBT relationships you are specifically setting them apart as different and inadvertently giving a foundation for later prejudices. Let children feel confident in giving love and receiving as much from their entourage without differentiating by sexual orientation and you'll have a future generation that is far more open minded than the current that has been taught to put people in boxes.
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Napp
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#14
Depends what theyre teaching, theres nothing wrong with teaching children about gay people afterall. Especially as odds are a number of them will be gay. But as i said, it really depends what theyre teaching, it would be rather distasteful to be teaching 6yr olds about sexuality but that goes for sex in general, nothing unique to LGB there, in my boox anyway.
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Napp
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(Original post by Crazed cat lady)
I have absolutely zero idea where you got this idea from. The DfE, Ofsted, etc. profoundly disagree with you. Vague commitments to so-called universal values is not part of British pedagogy. The actual reality is that maintained schools must construct their curriculum so that they promote, to quote the 2002 Education Act, "the spiritual, moral, cultural, mental and physical development of pupils at the school and of society". The current "British values" approach to SMSC development brought in by The Conservative Party looks like this. That includes promoting the idea that it is okay to be in a same sex relationship, as well as it is okay to be of a particular faith, or it is okay to not have sex before marriage, etc.



I regret to inform you that the fabled golden age where conservative Christian morality dominated Britain and gay people were marginalised, persecuted, criminalised, chemically castrated, etc. is behind us.
Werent you arguing the case that gay people are marginalised not too long ago..? You can either be an equal part of society, as you state here, or be marginalised.. you cant really be both at the same time.
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RoyalBeams
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(Original post by Crazed cat lady)
Yes, you are being unreasonable.

For most people, teaching children the factual reality that LGBT people exist is not the least bit controversial.
Do you have a source, that involved the surveying of parents, which you used to come to this conclusion?
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EOData
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Having had 4 kids, I'd say it's much easier to answer questions when they come up and before they find stuff smutty, funny or embarrassing than fob them off with 'when you're older'. It also makes it less likely they'll believe the mangled truths they get told by their peers. The challenge is to cover it at an appropriate level for the kid at the time and to stop when it's clear they have enough information for now..
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becausethenight
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What are the schools to do when kids ask "why does my friend have 2 dads" or "what does it mean that my friend's sister is gay", though? It's easy to say "oh don't teach it" but you can't avoid it. And then you start covering it up and teaching children that it's shameful or wrong.

Plus, if you have the right to say you don't want it to be taught, what if I really want it to be taught? Part of sending your kids to school is signing up to the curriculum.
Last edited by becausethenight; 3 months ago
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anarchism101
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(Original post by Joel 96)
You will, however, find that there are a significant number of parents who are against the teaching of LGBT in schools because it is not a value that they agree with.
Depends what you mean by "significant" - they're a small minority.

(Original post by Joel 96)
Your insistence that it should be taught in schools shows a lack of empathy for parents whose views differ from your own.
Schools aren't there for the benefit of parents.
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Fenneko
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(Original post by anarchism101)
Depends what you mean by "significant" - they're a small minority.
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.ne...20schools2.jpg

I concede that significant/insignificant are relative terms to use, but I don't consider 32% of the general population to be a small minority. It is a minority, but 3 in 10 adults being opposed to Relationship Education just fuels my argument: that LGBT is not a universal value that people share in this country. If you're going to throw-in values into school curricula that aren't universally shared, then you're going to create division.

(Original post by anarchism101)
Schools aren't there for the benefit of parents.
No, but the state isn't the child's parent. I am wholly opposed to the idea that parents, in this country, are not allowed to instill their own moral values into their children. I am opposed to LGBT being taught in schools because it follows the definition of indoctrination, and further destroys the gap between parent and state.
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