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Howard
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#21
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#21
(Original post by yawn)
Average graduate salary is currently £21,000 pa.
About the same as a dustman then.
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Howard
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#22
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#22
(Original post by blissy)
Well as it stands my bf and I will owe £24,000 (because we are both doing three year courses and are entitle to 100% of the loan and have no choice but to take 100% of the loan). With top up charges it would be £24,000 in loans and then £18,000 in fees I can't help but think about it! (blimey that's a heck of a lot of money)
Not really. I have more than that on my credit cards.
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blissy
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#23
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#23
(Original post by Howard)
Not really. I have more than that on my credit cards.
Oh that makes me feel sick (not at you, but it just makes my stomach turn - I'm extremely debt averse!)
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Howard
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#24
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#24
(Original post by blissy)
Oh that makes me feel sick (not at you, but it just makes my stomach turn - I'm extremely debt averse!)
Debt can make you wealthy if you know what you're doing. There are only two ways to make money; lend it, or borrow it (and do something useful with it) Very few people become wealthy without borrowing heavily at some point. Look at Branson for example; became rich chasing his dreams with other people's money. I'm not scared of debt at all (as a matter of fact I owe about 0.5million right now and it's going up up up :eek: )
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blissy
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#25
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#25
(Original post by Howard)
Debt can make you wealthy if you know what you're doing. There are only two ways to make money; lend it, or borrow it (and do something useful with it) Very few people become wealthy without borrowing heavily at some point. Look at Branson for example; became rich chasing his dreams with other people's money. I'm not scared of debt at all (as a matter of fact I owe about 0.5million right now and it's going up up up :eek: )
It's irrational, what can I say? SOmeone I know was recently declared bankrupt (obviously not the "right" kind of debt) and I had to sit down for a good 10 minutes. I blame my mother :mad: . She's going to keep me poor forever!
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Howard
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#26
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#26
(Original post by blissy)
It's irrational, what can I say? SOmeone I know was recently declared bankrupt (obviously not the "right" kind of debt) and I had to sit down for a good 10 minutes. I blame my mother :mad: . She's going to keep me poor forever!
Quite. My grandfather used to say "Neither a borrower or lender be" Needless to say he died in poverty!

I borrow very heavily because I invest in property (I'm working on buying two more investments this year) I'd recommend anybody read the Rich Dad Poor Dad books about investing, debt, and that sort of thing. It'll allay a lot of old fashioned fears that our parents tend to hand down, fears which really stop us becoming wealthy. Some people are so scared of losing they can't possibly win, and that's a terrible waste of talent.
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an Siarach
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#27
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#27
(Original post by The Messiah)
Will Tuition fees be a success for the nation on a whole or not? in your response just consider the numbers appplying to uni's these days!
Tuition fees will improve the financial situation somewhat but will not go anywhere near providing the amount of money needed by the universities to maintain, let alone improve, their quality. Also the new system of tuition fees is far fairer than the current one and the cries of "oh its unfair on kids from poor families" are the most incredible nonsense.
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yawn
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#28
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#28
(Original post by an Siarach)
Tuition fees will improve the financial situation somewhat but will not go anywhere near providing the amount of money needed by the universities to maintain, let alone improve, their quality. Also the new system of tuition fees is far fairer than the current one and the cries of "oh its unfair on kids from poor families" are the most incredible nonsense.
It's the fact that as they will not go anywhere near providing the amount of money needed by the universities that worries me. In 2006 it will be £3,000, in 2010 it might be £10,000 - once in place the fees can only go up and up.

How is the new system any fairer? If students are responsible for the debt incurred during their course and that has to be paid after graduation - then economic background of the student is irrelevant.

Take a student who's parental income is less than the lower limit - they get bursaries to help them through their studies and qualify owing nothing.

Another student who's parental income is just above the limits for them to qualify for any monetary support ends up owing up to £30,000.

Both students start on a graduate salary of say, £25,000. The one from the poorer background pays nothing back - the other pays the lot back.

Hardly fair. :mad:
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LH
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#29
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#29
(Original post by yawn)
It's the fact that as they will not go anywhere near providing the amount of money needed by the universities that worries me. In 2006 it will be £3,000, in 2010 it might be £10,000 - once in place the fees can only go up and up.

How is the new system any fairer? If students are responsible for the debt incurred during their course and that has to be paid after graduation - then economic background of the student is irrelevant.

Take a student who's parental income is less than the lower limit - they get bursaries to help them through their studies and qualify owing nothing.

Another student who's parental income is just above the limits for them to qualify for any monetary support ends up owing up to £30,000.

Both students start on a graduate salary of say, £25,000. The one from the poorer background pays nothing back - the other pays the lot back.

Hardly fair. :mad:
I agree, I support top-up fees but I think the idea of bursaries contradicts the whole idea for the reasons you highlighted.
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an Siarach
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#30
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#30
(Original post by yawn)
How is the new system any fairer? If students are responsible for the debt incurred during their course and that has to be paid after graduation - then economic background of the student is irrelevant.
Exactly my point. With the current system you have to pay the 1,250 tuition fee up front whereas the new system you only have to pay the fees after graduation, in installments and its dependant upon what you earn - and you may not even have to pay it back at all!. I know id find it a lot easier having 3k of debt per year to pay off almost at leisure rather than having to pay over a grand before i even start my course. As you say the new system renders ability to pay while at university - which of course comes down to what your parents can afford - totally irrelevant which is why the cries of "oh nos! the poor kids will be put off by crippling debt!!11!!" such utter *******s. If anything its more likely there will be an increase in applicants from poorer backgrounds no longer put off by having to pay so much up front.

(Original post by yawn)
Take a student who's parental income is less than the lower limit - they get bursaries to help them through their studies and qualify owing nothing.

Another student who's parental income is just above the limits for them to qualify for any monetary support ends up owing up to £30,000.

Both students start on a graduate salary of say, £25,000. The one from the poorer background pays nothing back - the other pays the lot back.

Hardly fair. :mad:
I agree. Without the government increasing HE funding 10-20 fold though thats the way it has to be. I think degrees in subjects which the government/nation actually requires such as hard sciences,education etc should be entirely paid for my the government while softer, less practical/relevant subjects should be paid for by those studying them.
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The Messiah
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#31
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#31
tuition fees are the best mann, can;t wait to start paying
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frost105
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#32
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#32
Personlly I support top up fees but I dont think the government is doing enough to educate potential uniersity students on the financial ramifications of going to university. It isnt for everybody and it doesnt guarntee you a great job but it can give you oppurtunities if you aim and go for them.

It annoys me when people whinge about how much debt they'll be in. You hardly notice when its coming out of your wages and you can put off payment for 2 years.
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AT82
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#33
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#33
What annoys me about these fees is and student loans is that you don't have to pay dole money back. If you claim dole money you should have to pay it back in a monthly installment once you have got a job.

It seems stupid that scallies are getting piad £40+ a week to do nothing yet students are having to get them selves £20k in debt just to get a degree which is considered essential in many fields these days.

I do support the top up fees, I just don't like the way it has been implemented.
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kellywood_5
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#34
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Although I will have to pay the top-up fess because I hope to go to uni in 2006, so I'm not exactly happy about it, I can see why they're necessary and I think it will be easier on students than having to pay so much up-front. There need to be some decent alternatives to going to university so people who would perhaps benefit more from something different wouldn't feel pressured into going.
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an Siarach
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#35
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#35
(Original post by amazingtrade)
What annoys me about these fees is and student loans is that you don't have to pay dole money back. If you claim dole money you should have to pay it back in a monthly installment once you have got a job.

It seems stupid that scallies are getting piad £40+ a week to do nothing yet students are having to get them selves £20k in debt just to get a degree which is considered essential in many fields these days.
I hadnt actually thought of that - paying the dole back in installments - its an idea i like.
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RieLouise
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#36
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#36
(Original post by amazingtrade)
What annoys me about these fees is and student loans is that you don't have to pay dole money back. If you claim dole money you should have to pay it back in a monthly installment once you have got a job.

It seems stupid that scallies are getting piad £40+ a week to do nothing yet students are having to get them selves £20k in debt just to get a degree which is considered essential in many fields these days.

I do support the top up fees, I just don't like the way it has been implemented.
That's because people choose to become students, they generally don't choose to become unemployed and claim income support/jobseeker's allowance.
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yawn
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#37
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#37
(Original post by an Siarach)
I hadnt actually thought of that - paying the dole back in installments - its an idea i like.
If one's claim to benefits is the result of an accident/personal injury or unfair sacking and the like and compensation is subsequently awarded - the benefits paid whilst out of work are deducted from the award.
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pedy1986
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#38
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#38
(Original post by amazingtrade)
What annoys me about these fees is and student loans is that you don't have to pay dole money back. If you claim dole money you should have to pay it back in a monthly installment once you have got a job.

It seems stupid that scallies are getting piad £40+ a week to do nothing yet students are having to get them selves £20k in debt just to get a degree which is considered essential in many fields these days.

I do support the top up fees, I just don't like the way it has been implemented.
Shall we make it less worth while to get back into work and push people back into staying home? The reforms with the merging of tax and benefits has made it more worthwhile to work, your proposed policy would merely serve to erdicate those changes.
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an Siarach
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#39
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#39
(Original post by yawn)
If one's claim to benefits is the result of an accident/personal injury or unfair sacking and the like and compensation is subsequently awarded - the benefits paid whilst out of work are deducted from the award.
Thanks i didnt know that.
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technik
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#40
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#40
(Original post by bratcat)
That's because people choose to become students, they generally don't choose to become unemployed and claim income support/jobseeker's allowance.
a hell of a lot of people do though. i believe these are the ones AT refers to. not people with a valid injury or disablement

ever heard the term "benefit sponger" ?
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