[Official Thread] Russian invasion of Ukraine
This is the main thread for this news story. Other threads on this topic may be closed with a link to this thread.
There is a thread discussing the possible widening of this war here.
Live news feeds:
BBC
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-60525350
Sky News
https://news.sky.com/story/russia-invades-ukraine-war-live-latest-updates-news-putin-boris-johnson-kyiv-12541713
Independent
https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/ukraine
More about the response to this across Europe here: https://www.politico.eu/article/live-blog-ukraine-invasion-putin-donetsk-luhansk/
The BBC is producing maps showing the Russian advance: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60506682
Updates:
Russia controls various parts of Ukraine's territory.
There is currently intense fighting in the east of the country, where Russia has made slow but significant and now controls over 90% of the Luhansk region. Russian forces are trying to take full control of Severodonetsk to further their control of Luhansk. President Zelensky believes the battle for Severodonetsk will determine the outcome of the entire war in the east.
Elsewhere, Russian troops are continuing to attack Ukrainian positions north of Kharkiv city. In the south, Mariupol is said to be at risk of a major cholera outbreak due to a shortage of fresh water and medical facilities in the city which fell to Russian control after a two-month siege which ended on 20 May.
Two Britons and a Moroccan who were captured while fighting for Ukraine in Mariupol have been sentenced to death by a Russian proxy court in the so-called Donetsk's People's Republic in eastern Ukraine. It is hoped that they may be involved in a prisoner swap between Ukraine and Russia.
The war has prompted Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia to make emergency applications to join the European Union. EU leaders are to decide later this month whether to welcome the countries as candidate states for membership, with the prospects of Ukraine and Moldova looking promising. However, Georgia was the subject of a scathing European Parliament resolution this week (9 June).
Sweden and Finland have also applied to join the Western security alliance Nato because of the war in Ukraine. Most of the 30 existing Nato countries are keen for them to join, however Turkey Turkey threatens to block their membership and accuses them of harbouring members of the Kurdistan Workers' Party, which it sees as a terrorist organisation.
Figures:
Figures are difficult to find and do vary, but the following claims have been made:
Ukrainian losses
- Ukrainian Government: 10,000 Ukrainian servicemen killed, with up to 200 dying each day (10 June)
Russian losses
- Ukrainian Government: 31,000 Russian soldiers killed (8 June)
- Russian Government: 1,351 Russian soldiers killed (25 March)
Civilian deaths
- Ukrainian Government: 2,000+ civilians killed (4 March)
- United Nations: at least 4,149 civilians killed and 4,945 injured (1 June) - but it is universally acknowledged that the real figure is much higher than this
Refugees
- United Nations: an estimated 4.9 million refugees have been recorded in Europe, with 7.3 million border crossings from Ukraine since the war began (9 June)
- International Organization for Migration: an estimated further 7.7 million people are internally displaced (17 April)
Arrests in Russia
- More than 15,000 people have been detained at anti-war protests in Russia since the war began (24 March)
Community Staff note:
Users sharing links to Russia Today will be moderated.
Ofcom revoked their license on 18th March 2022 which means nothing from RT can be shared on TSR.
There is a thread discussing the possible widening of this war here.
Live news feeds:
BBC
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-60525350
Sky News
https://news.sky.com/story/russia-invades-ukraine-war-live-latest-updates-news-putin-boris-johnson-kyiv-12541713
Independent
https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/ukraine
More about the response to this across Europe here: https://www.politico.eu/article/live-blog-ukraine-invasion-putin-donetsk-luhansk/
The BBC is producing maps showing the Russian advance: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60506682
Updates:
Russia controls various parts of Ukraine's territory.
There is currently intense fighting in the east of the country, where Russia has made slow but significant and now controls over 90% of the Luhansk region. Russian forces are trying to take full control of Severodonetsk to further their control of Luhansk. President Zelensky believes the battle for Severodonetsk will determine the outcome of the entire war in the east.
Elsewhere, Russian troops are continuing to attack Ukrainian positions north of Kharkiv city. In the south, Mariupol is said to be at risk of a major cholera outbreak due to a shortage of fresh water and medical facilities in the city which fell to Russian control after a two-month siege which ended on 20 May.
Two Britons and a Moroccan who were captured while fighting for Ukraine in Mariupol have been sentenced to death by a Russian proxy court in the so-called Donetsk's People's Republic in eastern Ukraine. It is hoped that they may be involved in a prisoner swap between Ukraine and Russia.
The war has prompted Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia to make emergency applications to join the European Union. EU leaders are to decide later this month whether to welcome the countries as candidate states for membership, with the prospects of Ukraine and Moldova looking promising. However, Georgia was the subject of a scathing European Parliament resolution this week (9 June).
Sweden and Finland have also applied to join the Western security alliance Nato because of the war in Ukraine. Most of the 30 existing Nato countries are keen for them to join, however Turkey Turkey threatens to block their membership and accuses them of harbouring members of the Kurdistan Workers' Party, which it sees as a terrorist organisation.
Figures:
Figures are difficult to find and do vary, but the following claims have been made:
Ukrainian losses
- Ukrainian Government: 10,000 Ukrainian servicemen killed, with up to 200 dying each day (10 June)
Russian losses
- Ukrainian Government: 31,000 Russian soldiers killed (8 June)
- Russian Government: 1,351 Russian soldiers killed (25 March)
Civilian deaths
- Ukrainian Government: 2,000+ civilians killed (4 March)
- United Nations: at least 4,149 civilians killed and 4,945 injured (1 June) - but it is universally acknowledged that the real figure is much higher than this
Refugees
- United Nations: an estimated 4.9 million refugees have been recorded in Europe, with 7.3 million border crossings from Ukraine since the war began (9 June)
- International Organization for Migration: an estimated further 7.7 million people are internally displaced (17 April)
Arrests in Russia
- More than 15,000 people have been detained at anti-war protests in Russia since the war began (24 March)
Community Staff note:
Users sharing links to Russia Today will be moderated.
Ofcom revoked their license on 18th March 2022 which means nothing from RT can be shared on TSR.
(edited 2 years ago)
Scroll to see replies
Not sure whats going to happen here. Just :/
General military wisdom suggests that the attacker only goes on offensive when they out number the defender 3 to 1. Although Russia has amassed well over 150,000 troops, and according to some reports, Belarusian soldiers have joined in the assault too, I have doubts they'll out number the Ukrainian military as a whole. Of course, the Russian military is certainly stronger and they have force multipliers that Ukraine lacks.
I doubt this Ukraine's out dated air force will be able stop the Russians from obtaining air superiority. I don't think that the Ukrainian air force's jets even have access to active radar homing missiles, that will put them at a huge disadvantage in a BVR conflict. It also won't help that Russia supplied much of its equipment and therefore will almost certainly know how to jam it via ECM.
I fear for the Ukrainian people especially in cities like Kiev; the Russian military does have some PGMs, but not to the same extent as the West. Plus, as seen in previous conflicts, they're not afraid to resort to more outdated techniques like carpet bombing.
I can only think that President Putin thinks this can be a a quick and clean operation. We shall have to wait and see if that's the case, but I have many doubts.
It looks like the USAF has an RQ-4 UAV up monitoring the invasion. Usually, there's other NATO assets in the area too - USN P-8As and / or USAF / RAF RC-135s. I wonder if they'll keep the manned aircraft further back from the conflict zone under the current circumstances.
I doubt this Ukraine's out dated air force will be able stop the Russians from obtaining air superiority. I don't think that the Ukrainian air force's jets even have access to active radar homing missiles, that will put them at a huge disadvantage in a BVR conflict. It also won't help that Russia supplied much of its equipment and therefore will almost certainly know how to jam it via ECM.
I fear for the Ukrainian people especially in cities like Kiev; the Russian military does have some PGMs, but not to the same extent as the West. Plus, as seen in previous conflicts, they're not afraid to resort to more outdated techniques like carpet bombing.
I can only think that President Putin thinks this can be a a quick and clean operation. We shall have to wait and see if that's the case, but I have many doubts.
It looks like the USAF has an RQ-4 UAV up monitoring the invasion. Usually, there's other NATO assets in the area too - USN P-8As and / or USAF / RAF RC-135s. I wonder if they'll keep the manned aircraft further back from the conflict zone under the current circumstances.
Original post by Tempest II
It looks like the USAF has an RQ-4 UAV up monitoring the invasion. Usually, there's other NATO assets in the area too - USN P-8As and / or USAF / RAF RC-135s. I wonder if they'll keep the manned aircraft further back from the conflict zone under the current circumstances.
Original post by 04MR17
For those of us who don't know, would you be able to explain a bit more about this image, what it shows, and how you got it?
It's from an app / website called Flight Radar 24. Most aircraft have transponders that this tracks. It's primarily for tracking civilian flights (as you can see, none are over the warzone) but many US and European military flights are also on it. Certainly in recent times, NATO ISTAR aircraft have been operating off the Black Sea and near Ukraine to gain intelligence on the Russian threat.
Edit - the red lines are the flight path the selected aircraft has taken.
(edited 2 years ago)
I feel like I’m stating the obvious here but this is an unwarranted and unjustified war of aggression on a sovereign state by a man hellbent on old-fashioned Russian empire building.
My thoughts are very much with the Ukrainian people.
My thoughts are very much with the Ukrainian people.
The prime minister has confirmed he will address the UK later this morning; it's not entirely clear when that will be.
https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1496784638584360961
https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1496784638584360961
Original post by Crazed cat lady
I feel like I’m stating the obvious here but this is an unwarranted and unjustified war of aggression on a sovereign state by a man hellbent on old-fashioned Russian empire building.
My thoughts are very much with the Ukrainian people.
My thoughts are very much with the Ukrainian people.
I agree with most of this, but tbh I can't ignore that the west has played it's knowing part in this, we're the ones that goaded Ukraine to aggro with their neighbour with promises of support that melt in the sun, again. I'm not saying for a second this justifies the invasion and deaths that will result, but we did kind of put Russia in a position where it felt threatened by NATO through it's neighbour, there was always going to be a reaction to that and it's not like they want more NATO forces and weapons on their borders, Ukraine is just a pawn in this
Original post by StriderHort
I agree with most of this, but tbh I can't ignore that the west has played it's knowing part in this, we're the ones that goaded Ukraine to aggro with their neighbour with promises of support that melt in the sun, again. I'm not saying for a second this justifies the invasion and deaths that will result, but we did kind of put Russia in a position where it felt threatened by NATO through it's neighbour, there was always going to be a reaction to that and it's not like they want more NATO forces and weapons on their borders, Ukraine is just a pawn in this
Many of these nations wanted to join NATO because of their treatment by the USSR; who are we to tell them that they're wrong? Arguably, the Western Allies threw much of Eastern Europe under the bus in 1945 (for understandable reasons as no-one wanted to push the Red Army out of that territory). Many of the countries in that region don't have the ability to resist the Russia by themselves, hence the attraction of NATO.
It's rather ironic that a nation that gave up nuclear weapons (Ukraine) is now being invaded by a nation that was meant to guarantee its security should it do so.
Russia hasn't flexed its muscles in this way in a little while, so it's no surprise. Sadly it will mean a great number of civilian deaths and large scale destruction, because Russia does not do things by half measures. Hopefully an intervention can be made to stop this before it escalates further. After all, the Russian military has had a long tradition of being large but poorly equipped and poorly trained and disciplined in some areas, and as such it makes me think of what the odds are of war crimes being committed.
Original post by gjd800
A dark day for Europe.
Yes but also it's good to see us standing together for once with other Europen countries after all the division caused by covid
Original post by Tempest II
Many of these nations wanted to join NATO because of their treatment by the USSR; who are we to tell them that they're wrong? Arguably, the Western Allies threw much of Eastern Europe under the bus in 1945 (for understandable reasons as no-one wanted to push the Red Army out of that territory). Many of the countries in that region don't have the ability to resist the Russia by themselves, hence the attraction of NATO.
It's rather ironic that a nation that gave up nuclear weapons (Ukraine) is now being invaded by a nation that was meant to guarantee its security should it do so.
It's rather ironic that a nation that gave up nuclear weapons (Ukraine) is now being invaded by a nation that was meant to guarantee its security should it do so.
I'm deffo not about to start waving a Russian Flag or anything, an invasion is an invasion and there's been harsh choices, mistakes and pocked history on both sides. But it's honestly all the po faced righter-than-right claims by the west talking heads that it's all 'unprovoked!' that make me literally feel a bit sick, it's like when you see a football player lightly clip another on the leg and they crash to the ground holding their face screaming, then give a wee knowing wink to their team mates as the other player gets sent off with no appeal, I feel the west is mostly at that level of 'honesty
Original post by Jack22031994
Not sure whats going to happen here. Just :/
War crimes committed by Russia I'd imagine.
Original post by Joel 96
As horrible as this is, the idea that NATO didn't see this coming is just bizarre to me. I don't blame Russia for reacting.
What justifies Russia invading Ukraine?
Original post by Joel 96
As horrible as this is, the idea that NATO didn't see this coming is just bizarre to me. I don't blame Russia for reacting.
NATO did see this coming, as did the countries on Russia’s border. Which is precisely why they joined NATO and why Ukraine aspired to join (granted that was never seriously in the pipeline).
I very much do blame Russia for the slaughter they are causing.
The idea that NATOs expansion poses a threat to Russia is ridiculous. NATO does not even encompass the entirety of Western Europe. If Russia is worried about NATO invading them, should Sweden, Finland, Ireland, Switzerland and Austria be worried too?
Should Sweden and Finland join an alliance to invade Norway, under a paranoid delusion that NATO are going to invade and try to take over both countries? It's ridiculous.
This is nothing but a power grab by Russia and them flexing their power. It's totally abhorrent.
Should Sweden and Finland join an alliance to invade Norway, under a paranoid delusion that NATO are going to invade and try to take over both countries? It's ridiculous.
This is nothing but a power grab by Russia and them flexing their power. It's totally abhorrent.
Original post by SHallowvale
What justifies Russia invading Ukraine?
I can understand why they're reacting the way they are. It's a preemptive attack on Russia's part against NATO expansion. If the whole of Europe has joined NATO, then that alienates Russia even more than they already have been. An expansionist international regime is a threat somewhere down the line. It's very obvious that Russia loses power if they lose their neighbouring countries; it would pose a direct threat at their borders.
Original post by SHallowvale
If Russia is worried about NATO invading them, should Sweden, Finland, Ireland, Switzerland and Austria be worried too?
The idea that the relationship between Switzerland and NATO is anywhere near comparable to the relationship between Russia and NATO is ludicrous, and you know this.
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