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[Official Thread] Russian invasion of Ukraine

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According to the Ukrainian Ambassador to the UK, Ukrainian and Russian forces are in contact at Hostomel / Gostomel Airport, near Kiev. If these are land forces, I certainly would worry for Ukraine's army. However, it's entirely possible / probable that these are airborne forces paradropped or inserted via helicopter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostomel_Airport

https://www.google.com/maps/place/ANTONOV+Company/@50.5892966,30.1940665,37106m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x40d4ccf6029e88f5:0x65653e5bb7a6dd0d!8m2!3d50.5911268!4d30.207857

Edit - online sources suggest it is / was a heliborne assault.
(edited 2 years ago)
Reply 61
Original post by Starship Trooper
.

Russophobia? So you think Russia creating a war in Europe is going to help with that? The unnecessary loss of thousands of lives is not exactly going to help improve their image. My apologies if I've misunderstood you, and you are just being sarcastic.
Original post by lalexm
Russophobia? So you think Russia creating a war in Europe is going to help with that? The unnecessary loss of thousands of lives is not exactly going to help improve their image. My apologies if I've misunderstood you, and you are just being sarcastic.

Yes Russia should take a stand against Russophobia.

NATO goes around bombing and invading countries across the globe for decades and somehow that's ok. But God forbid Russia reclaim its former territory after a CIA backed coup.
Original post by lalexm
Russophobia? So you think Russia creating a war in Europe is going to help with that? The unnecessary loss of thousands of lives is not exactly going to help improve their image. My apologies if I've misunderstood you, and you are just being sarcastic.

There has been clear Russophobia for years to the extent that Russia is conveniently used as an excuse in the West.

The Ukraine seeking to join Nato was a reckless and aggressive position to take against a major nuclear state. No sane Western leader would have tolerated military infrastructure from an opponent on its borders. The US refused during the Cuban missile crisis to allow the Soviets to put weapons in Cuba, but reneged on their promise not to allow Ukraine to join Nato.

It was dishonest for Zelensky to claim that he wanted peaceful co-existence with Russia whilst arming his country.
Original post by Starship Trooper
Yes Russia should take a stand against Russophobia.

NATO goes around bombing and invading countries across the globe for decades and somehow that's ok. But God forbid Russia reclaim its former territory after a CIA backed coup.

It's ok when we do it
Original post by -Eirlys-
Such a sad day, I'm angered that one man can cause so much destruction at the wave of his hand. This shouldn't be allowed to happen in this day and age. I felt naively that we had moved past things like this, but I guess we never will until leaders like Putin are wiped out and democracy prevails.

This is the lie that has been fed by the media. Putin is not alone and there are alleged polls that suggest majority of Russians support the military operation in Ukraine.

The media have told so many lies that we believe that Putin can click his fingers and the whole Russian infrastructure would respond to his every whim. This was the same reckless claim about Hitler and the Nazis. It absolves those on the ground from their moral responsibility.
Original post by Wired_1800
There has been clear Russophobia for years to the extent that Russia is conveniently used as an excuse in the West.

The Ukraine seeking to join Nato was a reckless and aggressive position to take against a major nuclear state. No sane Western leader would have tolerated military infrastructure from an opponent on its borders. The US refused during the Cuban missile crisis to allow the Soviets to put weapons in Cuba, but reneged on their promise not to allow Ukraine to join Nato.

It was dishonest for Zelensky to claim that he wanted peaceful co-existence with Russia whilst arming his country.

You're conflating all weapons with nuclear weapons. The US only imposed a fully naval blockade on Cuba after nuclear weapons sites were constructed. NATO has nuclear gravity weapons (B-61s) in Germany from the Cold War days but has no plans to move them further east.
Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons after the Cold War with the agreement from the RF, USA and UK that their security would be protected by those nations. Is the irony lost on you?
Original post by The RAR
It's ok when we do it


Including the darling Mr Obama and of course madame Secretary Clinton.
Original post by TCA2b
Including the darling Mr Obama and of course madame Secretary Clinton.

I also note how many people say the west has no interest in invading Russia, they are right but that's only because Russia is a big country with superpower like status. If it was a small country like Afghanistan, 100% the West would invade it to give it some good old democracy (Whilst at the same time stealing all oil and gas supplies and making huge profits from the sale of arms).
(edited 2 years ago)
Original post by Tempest II
You're conflating all weapons with nuclear weapons. The US only imposed a fully naval blockade on Cuba after nuclear weapons sites were constructed. NATO has nuclear gravity weapons (B-61s) in Germany from the Cold War days but has no plans to move them further east.
Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons after the Cold War with the agreement from the RF, USA and UK that their security would be protected by those nations. Is the irony lost on you?


You have missed the point.

The fundamental principle of NATO is contained under Article 5 called ‘Collective Defence’. Collective defence means that an attack against one Ally is considered as an attack against all Allies.

As a result, it does not matter whether it was nuclear weapons. If Ukraine joined NATO, then they had the full military backing of nuclear states.

A nuclear state outside nato is different to a non-nuclear state in NATO.
Original post by Barbu
NATO doing jack **** as Ukraine is being pummelled from all quarters.

"Sending thoughts and prayers" might help though.

Never depend on another person to protect you. This is why the UK would never give up trident.
Original post by Wired_1800
You have missed the point.

The fundamental principle of NATO is contained under Article 5 called ‘Collective Defence’. Collective defence means that an attack against one Ally is considered as an attack against all Allies.

As a result, it does not matter whether it was nuclear weapons. If Ukraine joined NATO, then they had the full military backing of nuclear states.

A nuclear state outside nato is different to a non-nuclear state in NATO.

This isn't the Cold War; NATO wouldn't launch a nuclear strike unless one was launched at one of its members. Unless Putin wanted to nuke Ukraine, your argument doesn't exactly apply. Plus, you're missing the "Defence" part. If Ukraine attacked first Russia, NATO wouldn't be brought in.
Oh sh*t.
I never thought it would actually happen.
Just found out now...
Original post by sufys12
Oh sh*t.
I never thought it would actually happen.
Just found out now...

Honestly as soon as I heard Macron said that peace was nearby, I was like yup is Chamerlain all over again which means war despite talks saying it won't happen. Still surpised me that Putin actually went ahead with it
Original post by Tempest II
This isn't the Cold War; NATO wouldn't launch a nuclear strike unless one was launched at one of its members. Unless Putin wanted to nuke Ukraine, your argument doesn't exactly apply. Plus, you're missing the "Defence" part. If Ukraine attacked first Russia, NATO wouldn't be brought in.

If Ukraine joined NATO the US could have put nukes in Ukraine and then would be treaty bound to protect them when Russia inevitably retaliated just as any sane country would.
Original post by Tempest II
This isn't the Cold War; NATO wouldn't launch a nuclear strike unless one was launched at one of its members. Unless Putin wanted to nuke Ukraine, your argument doesn't exactly apply. Plus, you're missing the "Defence" part. If Ukraine attacked first Russia, NATO wouldn't be brought in.


We are talking about hypotheticals. Russia cannot (and should not imho) allow a neighbour to potentially become a hostile state.
Original post by Wired_1800
We are talking about hypotheticals. Russia cannot (and should not imho) allow a neighbour to potentially become a hostile state.

Exactly. You'd have to be really dumb to let that happen.
Original post by The RAR
I also note how many people say the west has no interest in invading Russia, they are right but that's only because Russia is a big country with superpower like status. If it was a small country like Afghanistan, 100% the West would invade it to give it some good old democracy (Whilst at the same time stealing all oil and gas supplies and making huge profits from the sale of arms).

To be honest it's not that Russia is a superpower (it lacks the industrial output or innovative advantage to compete in a conventional war against a European coalition that involves Britain and France or the US) but simply that it has nukes.

If we ever develop a sure fire way to detect and disable nukes then I'm sure many of us would have no issue with dismantling Russia and reducing Moscow to ruin for the security of the west.
Original post by Wired_1800
We are talking about hypotheticals. Russia cannot (and should not imho) allow a neighbour to potentially become a hostile state.

Except that's exactly what they've done since 2014. I doubt you'll find anyone in Ukraine east of Kharkiv who sees Russia as anything other than a hostile state.
Russia's invasion force can't control 35 million Ukrainian citizens.

Edit - plus, other European countries like Finland and Sweden could well join NATO because of this attack.
(edited 2 years ago)
*China inserts it’s self into the chat*

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