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NYU pre-med vs Medicine Edinburgh

So I am trying to choose between two colleges, two paths really. One is that of doing pre-med at NYU, and one of Medicine at Edinburgh. I am an Indian, if that matters. The NYU position is confirmed, and the Edin offer is conditioned on getting 37 points in the IB. By my current performance in school exams, I get around 42-45 points.

The costs of both are relatively the same. To answer some common questions, the cost of living in Edin is obviously lower than NYC, but a doctor's pay is low in the UK too. As for academics, well I really don't know much! I am on the fence about the liberal arts methodology of the US versus the focussed method of the USA. I do know that if I go to the USA, I will still have to go through the rat race of PG applications, and the MCAT for actually getting into med school, but the prospect of some of the top med schools (Harvard and such) is quite interesting. In the UK, I am becoming a doctor directly.

Furthermore, I plan to practice in the US. I know US graduation plays an advantage there, but I also know transitioning from the UK to the US is possible, even if tough, via the USMLE. Is it a fair track to pursue? To help myself in this track, I also plan to take up the US study-away that Edin offers in its final years.

I also would like to know more about research opportunities in both places. Afaik rn, Edin offers an intercalated Bachelor of Medical Sciences degree rn after publishing my own research in the 3rd year. I wanna know what the on-campus opportunities are like, in both places. That's it for now, please let me know which pathway is better in your opinion, and lemme know if u want any more info from me. Thanks for any input!
(edited 2 years ago)
Original post by Kulifury
So I am trying to choose between two colleges, two paths really. One is that of doing pre-med at NYU, and one of Medicine at Edinburgh. I am an Indian, if that matters. The NYU position is confirmed, and the Edin offer is conditioned on getting 37 points in the IB. By my current performance in school exams, I get around 42-45 points.

The costs of both are relatively the same. To answer some common questions, the cost of living in Edin is obviously lower than NYC, but a doctor's pay is low in the UK too. As for academics, well I really don't know much! I am on the fence about the liberal arts methodology of the US versus the focussed method of the USA. I do know that if I go to the USA, I will still have to go through the rat race of PG applications, and the MCAT for actually getting into med school, but the prospect of some of the top med schools (Harvard and such) is quite interesting. In the UK, I am becoming a doctor directly.

Furthermore, I plan to practice in the US. I know US graduation plays an advantage there, but I also know transitioning from the UK to the US is possible, even if tough, via the USMLE. Is it a fair track to pursue? To help myself in this track, I also plan to take up the US study-away that Edin offers in its final years.

I also would like to know more about research opportunities in both places. Afaik rn, Edin offers an intercalated Bachelor of Medical Sciences degree rn after publishing my own research in the 3rd year. I wanna know what the on-campus opportunities are like, in both places. That's it for now, please let me know which pathway is better in your opinion, and lemme know if u want any more info from me. Thanks for any input!

nyu seems to be more fitting and appealing and if you really want to work in the US post university then that seems like the more appropriate option.
Reply 2
How much is nyu costing and is cost an issue?

Have you applied for any bs/md routes in the us?
As above if you want to practice in the US then you need to really get your degree from there. However, some things to note:

Being a pre-med in undergrad in the US doesn't guarantee you will get into any medical school (US or elsewhere). Medical admissions will be separate after you graduate from that first degree (or in your final year). I'm sure you know this but do keep in mind, there is NO guarantee you will be able get onto a medical course afterwards! So make sure you would be happy with the alternatives if you are unsuccessful, and graduate with your BA/BS from NYU in whatever major(s).

Also note if you would be an international student, while getting a degree from the US does make some things simpler, you are still not guaranteed a posting through the Match and you are still at the mercy of US working visa requirements, so most likely will be limited to non-competitive specialties in regions others don't want to work in - basically psychiatry, family medicine, rural medicine and the like, in more rural areas. If your aim is to become a surgeon in NYC then, that's not going to happen unless you get a US green card.

So you should evaluate carefully in view of the above. Edinburgh is a guaranteed entry to the medical degree and if you pass it, you are pretty straightforwardly going to be all but guaranteed a foundation post in the UK. So consider what is more important to you - being a doctor, or being a doctor in America.
(edited 2 years ago)
whilst this may have some merit, its not true that you are just limited to non-competitive specialties. If you do well in the usmle exams, with a combination of letters of recommendation gained through clerkships etc and overall well in your degree, then it is absolutely possible to get a competitive placement in the US. granted it is much harder to do so through studying in Edinburgh it is still possible in either route. Although I would still say to study in the US as actually being there will help you to understand what steps you need to take to achieve your goals and you will find it much easier to transition from pre med to actual medicine. As far as the visa side goes, don't write yourself off, there are a number of ways possible to study in the US or even just work in the US as a doctor: I am saying you can absolutely become a surgeon in the US without a green card, but know that it is one of the more risky/unrealistic paths to take. Whatever you choose, know that you can work in the US either from studying in the UK or US but it will be harder to do so from the UK, rather than just directly from the US.
Original post by HappyPenguin2121
whilst this may have some merit, its not true that you are just limited to non-competitive specialties. If you do well in the usmle exams, with a combination of letters of recommendation gained through clerkships etc and overall well in your degree, then it is absolutely possible to get a competitive placement in the US. granted it is much harder to do so through studying in Edinburgh it is still possible in either route. Although I would still say to study in the US as actually being there will help you to understand what steps you need to take to achieve your goals and you will find it much easier to transition from pre med to actual medicine. As far as the visa side goes, don't write yourself off, there are a number of ways possible to study in the US or even just work in the US as a doctor: I am saying you can absolutely become a surgeon in the US without a green card, but know that it is one of the more risky/unrealistic paths to take. Whatever you choose, know that you can work in the US either from studying in the UK or US but it will be harder to do so from the UK, rather than just directly from the US.

This just isn't really true regarding how working visas in the US work. To be sponsored for a working visa for a residency job through the match, the employer must demonstrate there are no suitably qualified American applicants for that job, under federal law. This is why it's virtually impossible for IMGs and international US medical grads to get into competitive specialties - they can't get a working visa. If they have another visa already e.g. some kind of indefinite leave to remain, then it's fine, but if they need a working visa, that immediately rules out most of those roles. Because there will always be enough suitably qualified Americans applying to those competitive specialties which means they are legally bound to take one of those ahead of someone they would need to submit a working visa application for.
Reply 6
Original post by ajj2000
How much is nyu costing and is cost an issue?

Have you applied for any bs/md routes in the us?


More or less same as Edin, about 80k USD per annum. Cost really isn't an issue but like any other human being, we'd like them to be low if possible :smile:. I had applied to a BS/MD programme but didn't get accepted. The NYU offer is purely a BA in Biology.
Reply 7
Original post by artful_lounger
This just isn't really true regarding how working visas in the US work. To be sponsored for a working visa for a residency job through the match, the employer must demonstrate there are no suitably qualified American applicants for that job, under federal law. This is why it's virtually impossible for IMGs and international US medical grads to get into competitive specialties - they can't get a working visa. If they have another visa already e.g. some kind of indefinite leave to remain, then it's fine, but if they need a working visa, that immediately rules out most of those roles. Because there will always be enough suitably qualified Americans applying to those competitive specialties which means they are legally bound to take one of those ahead of someone they would need to submit a working visa application for.

Hey! Thank you so much for giving input in my decision. I was just wondering if you could please cite this information about demonstrating the no-Americans thing under federal law. Like, where can I read more about this? Thanks a lot once again
Original post by Kulifury
Hey! Thank you so much for giving input in my decision. I was just wondering if you could please cite this information about demonstrating the no-Americans thing under federal law. Like, where can I read more about this? Thanks a lot once again

https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/permanent-workers#

"Some immigrant visa preferences require you to already have a job offer from a U.S. employer. This employer will be considered your sponsor. For some visa categories, before the U.S. employer can submit an immigration petition to USCIS, the employer must obtain an approved labor certification from the U.S. Department of Labor (DOL). The DOL labor certification verifies the following:

There are insufficient available, qualified, and willing U.S. workers to fill the position being offered at the prevailing wage
Hiring a foreign worker will not adversely affect the wages and working conditions of similarly employed U.S. workers"

Emphasis mine.

There is a clause where the requirement is waived "for persons of extraordinary ability in the sciences, arts, education, business, or athletics; outstanding professors or researchers; and multinational executives and managers". This general applies to e.g. Nobel/similar prize winners, Olympic athletes, and the like.

There is also the following exception: https://www.uscis.gov/newsroom/alerts/uscis-updates-guidance-on-national-interest-waivers but that only applies to entrepreneurs and people with advanced degrees in technology fields.
(edited 2 years ago)

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