Calories listed on menus. Absolute farce.
As someone who’s open in saying they’re still recovering from an ED 10 years down the line I find it utterly deplorable that voices aren’t being heard when it comes to this issue. It’s damaging to recovery, it’s damaging to mental health. Eating out is sometimes a reprieve for those with an ED because it’s then out of your control. I am pleased to see however some restaurants offering menus without calories listed; if asked, and in one case staff scribbled out the amounts listed on the menu.
I understand why they’ve done it; and why they’ve thought it was a good idea. However it doesn’t hit the target market because those numbers are meaningless to those who are overweight. It’s exactly the same logic as raising junk food prices to combat obesity; it doesn’t work because they’ll find a way to justify paying it, just like people will happily ignore the numbers listed on the menu.
Thoughts?
I understand why they’ve done it; and why they’ve thought it was a good idea. However it doesn’t hit the target market because those numbers are meaningless to those who are overweight. It’s exactly the same logic as raising junk food prices to combat obesity; it doesn’t work because they’ll find a way to justify paying it, just like people will happily ignore the numbers listed on the menu.
Thoughts?
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Do you have an alternative suggestion which allows people to make informed choices about the calorific value of what they're eating, whilst at the same time not causing issues for those with (or recovering from) an eating disorder?
The two menu approach works, but it's a bit clunky. How about having the calories listed in a special ink, and each menu has an accompanying paid of glasses via which that text can be revealed? Or a QR code on the menu which takes you an on-line version, which is the only version containing the calorie numbers?
Personally (and I completely accept that not everyone's experience will be the same), I like the idea. I was in a restaurant the other day trying to decide between two options which seemed equally appealing to me. Once I spotted the calorie number in a tiny font beneath, I immediately opted for the one with fewer calories.
The two menu approach works, but it's a bit clunky. How about having the calories listed in a special ink, and each menu has an accompanying paid of glasses via which that text can be revealed? Or a QR code on the menu which takes you an on-line version, which is the only version containing the calorie numbers?
Personally (and I completely accept that not everyone's experience will be the same), I like the idea. I was in a restaurant the other day trying to decide between two options which seemed equally appealing to me. Once I spotted the calorie number in a tiny font beneath, I immediately opted for the one with fewer calories.
Original post by DataVenia
Do you have an alternative suggestion which allows people to make informed choices about the calorific value of what they're eating, whilst at the same time not causing issues for those with (or recovering from) an eating disorder?
The two menu approach works, but it's a bit clunky. How about having the calories listed in a special ink, and each menu has an accompanying paid of glasses via which that text can be revealed? Or a QR code on the menu which takes you an on-line version, which is the only version containing the calorie numbers?
Personally (and I completely accept that not everyone's experience will be the same), I like the idea. I was in a restaurant the other day trying to decide between two options which seemed equally appealing to me. Once I spotted the calorie number in a tiny font beneath, I immediately opted for the one with fewer calories.
The two menu approach works, but it's a bit clunky. How about having the calories listed in a special ink, and each menu has an accompanying paid of glasses via which that text can be revealed? Or a QR code on the menu which takes you an on-line version, which is the only version containing the calorie numbers?
Personally (and I completely accept that not everyone's experience will be the same), I like the idea. I was in a restaurant the other day trying to decide between two options which seemed equally appealing to me. Once I spotted the calorie number in a tiny font beneath, I immediately opted for the one with fewer calories.
The best option would be to adequately educate people about food in the first place so that the now vast majority of them can change their habits and show some modicum of self control. Putting a few numbers on the bottom of menus does not change that. It doesn’t suddenly make them want to reevaluate their lives.
Original post by DataVenia
Do you have an alternative suggestion which allows people to make informed choices about the calorific value of what they're eating, whilst at the same time not causing issues for those with (or recovering from) an eating disorder?
The two menu approach works, but it's a bit clunky. How about having the calories listed in a special ink, and each menu has an accompanying paid of glasses via which that text can be revealed? Or a QR code on the menu which takes you an on-line version, which is the only version containing the calorie numbers?
Personally (and I completely accept that not everyone's experience will be the same), I like the idea. I was in a restaurant the other day trying to decide between two options which seemed equally appealing to me. Once I spotted the calorie number in a tiny font beneath, I immediately opted for the one with fewer calories.
The two menu approach works, but it's a bit clunky. How about having the calories listed in a special ink, and each menu has an accompanying paid of glasses via which that text can be revealed? Or a QR code on the menu which takes you an on-line version, which is the only version containing the calorie numbers?
Personally (and I completely accept that not everyone's experience will be the same), I like the idea. I was in a restaurant the other day trying to decide between two options which seemed equally appealing to me. Once I spotted the calorie number in a tiny font beneath, I immediately opted for the one with fewer calories.
I think an alternative is only displaying it for meals that have >600 calories, or another figure. I agree that it'll just enable people with EDs and make it worse for those in recovery. I also agree that informed choices comes from education. It would probably have to be in the form of food technology content taught in schools at KS3 to help the younger generation as they grow.
I’m opposed to this safe space mentality of not listing calories because a small majority of people find it stressful. Censoring calorie values does not help them address their issues, working with a suitable qualified therapist does.
Original post by imlikeahermit
The best option would be to adequately educate people about food in the first place so that the now vast majority of them can change their habits and show some modicum of self control. Putting a few numbers on the bottom of menus does not change that. It doesn’t suddenly make them want to reevaluate their lives.
Would that still help, though? Even if someone knows the general calorie amounts in food they'll never know the exact recipe a restaurant will use or the exact quanty of food they'll be given. Surely this is where having calorie information on a menu makes sense, since each restaurant can can provide information that is accurate for the food they serve. Two restaurants could serve the same type of dish but that dish may contain a different number of calories, for example.
Plus, there are plenty of different types of food out there and you can't expect people to memorise calorie information for everything, or even just most things. Furthermore, if you want to educate people on how many calories food contains then wouldn't the best place to do this be at the moment that they are ordering the food? It's the most direct method of communication. If you teach people this stuff in school then they'll probably forget it immediately, whereas if it's right infront of their face every time they order food then they'll know the information when they need it.
This seems like the sort of issue where the needs of the majority will have to outweigh the needs of the minority, as sad as that may be. This applies to other sorts of mental health issues. Most restaurants are very noisy places, for example, and this makes it hard for people with severe anxiety.
Thinking about it, isn't calorie information already given on the food people buy for themself in shops / supermarkets? If it's a problem for people with eating disorders to have calorie information displayed on restaurant menus, is it equally a problem for calorie information to be displayed on household foods / drinks?
I've never had an eating disorder, so I'd be interested to hear from those who have.
I've never had an eating disorder, so I'd be interested to hear from those who have.
Original post by Crazed cat lady
I’m opposed to this safe space mentality of not listing calories because a small majority of people find it stressful. Censoring calorie values does not help them address their issues, working with a suitable qualified therapist does.
Irony abounds in this post given your political views. You also seem under the impression that ED are solved with just a few sessions. I’m genuinely surprised by your lack of empathy.
Original post by Fenneko
I'm genuinely curious to know the reasons as to why someone might object to calories being listed on menus. How does this exacerbate eating disorders? Or, rather, how does this affect you?
I don’t mind being open about this. For me. It’s about control. It’s not as bad as 10 years ago but I still view calories as an important number. I still count them, I still get put off by large numbers. For example buying a specific brand of pasta rather than another because I know it’s lower calorie. Putting calories on menus massively exacerbates it for me. Already, I’ve been out, and I’ve chosen a vegetarian curry as opposed to perhaps something I’d normally pick because of the number associated with it. I’ve lost that ability to estimate what I think something might be worth, which in turn means it might be higher. But it’s not just that. It’s seeing the high number. That’s why I’m so concerned about the attitude of @Crazed cat lady above. ED take decades to get over, if at all. You always view food differently.
(edited 1 year ago)
I would say my answer depends on whether this works. Obesity is a problem that far outnumbers anorexia, bulimia and the like. If we can use a blunt tool to hit obesity, and then a more precise tool to target undereating, then that would work better than the other way around. People know that eating McDonalds is bad for them, but they keep doing it anyway, so education is not going to solve that. It's normal to want to eat tasty food, whereas undereating is an issue that will need attention even if the individual is managing to cope.
I think it might work, but only as far as reminding someone that they're eating 'a lot' of calories and might want to try burning it off later. It's worth a try.
I think it might work, but only as far as reminding someone that they're eating 'a lot' of calories and might want to try burning it off later. It's worth a try.
Original post by imlikeahermit
The best option would be to adequately educate people about food in the first place so that the now vast majority of them can change their habits and show some modicum of self control. Putting a few numbers on the bottom of menus does not change that. It doesn’t suddenly make them want to reevaluate their lives.
No amount of education can allow someone to second guess the calorific value of a plate of food put in front of them. As well you know, seemingly "healthy" options like orange juice are laced with calories and diet products are ironically more likely to induce weight gain than not. Surely more information is better than less?
Why is printing calorific information so bad for someone who has an eating disorder? I genuinely don't know.
Original post by hotpud
Why is printing calorific information so bad for someone who has an eating disorder? I genuinely don't know.
I believe it's a trigger. Which it's supposed to be for everyone, to get them to think about their weight, but it's potentially got more drastic effects on someone who focused solely on starving themselves.
Original post by ThomH97
I believe it's a trigger. Which it's supposed to be for everyone, to get them to think about their weight, but it's potentially got more drastic effects on someone who focused solely on starving themselves.
Fair enough. But then we are in that awkward problem of the simple reality that everything is a trigger for someone or other. Where do we draw the line of benefitting the majority at the detriment of a small minority?
Original post by hotpud
Fair enough. But then we are in that awkward problem of the simple reality that everything is a trigger for someone or other. Where do we draw the line of benefitting the majority at the detriment of a small minority?
I agree, I'd rather give this a go (I'm not sure how effective it'd be, but think it'll help at least a bit), and give targeted help to those with the much less natural urge to eat as little as possible, as they need such help anyway.
Original post by imlikeahermit
The best option would be to adequately educate people about food in the first place so that the now vast majority of them can change their habits and show some modicum of self control. Putting a few numbers on the bottom of menus does not change that. It doesn’t suddenly make them want to reevaluate their lives.
Considering you are advocating for eating disorder awareness in this post I find this comment puzzling.
Saying things like a 'modicum of self control' to someone with a binge eating disorder is just as dismissive as telling someone with anorexia to 'just eat'.
Eating disorders aren't just something that very thin people deal with and calories don't only matter to those with an ED.
Just because you are overweight doesn't mean you don't care about calories, people could be trying to lose weight but according to your OP the numbers are irrelevant to heavier people just because they are heavy.
I wouldnt say I have an eating disorder but I do comfort eat when depressed and seeing things like the traffic light symbols and calories on menus is something I find helpful.
Unfortunately obesity is a far bigger epidemic than eating disorders, from a national health perspective that takes precedent over the relatively small number in comparison who weigh too little.
Even if you don't eat out regularly and try to choose healthier options, food brought outside of your own house often has excess sugar, salts and saturates added into it. It's surprising sometimes just how many calories something seemingly simple and relatively healthy can have in it. Things like juices and smoothies have loads of sugar in them which is obvious from the traffic light labelling.
Additionally dietary information for things like carbohydrates is important to diabetics.
Foods in shops all display calorie and other nutrient information, I dont see why restaurants need to be any different.
(edited 1 year ago)
Original post by Sabertooth
As someone who is overweight, I really appreciate calories being shown on menus. It's about control. I view them as an important number. I still count them, I still get put off by large numbers. For example buying a specific brand of pasta rather than another because I know it’s lower calorie. Already, I’ve been out, and I’ve chosen a grilled chicken sandwich as opposed to perhaps something I’d normally pick because of the number associated with it.
Same here. Its helpful when you have other conditions as well like PCOS. I dont actively count calories but if something had loads and there is an option with fewer it's a no brainer.
Original post by hotpud
Fair enough. But then we are in that awkward problem of the simple reality that everything is a trigger for someone or other. Where do we draw the line of benefitting the majority at the detriment of a small minority?
Honestly everything is a trigger to someone, I dont say that as a 'snowflakes' gammon type of comment rather that its impossible with these things to not trigger someone in some way.
In mental health spaces I understand the value of trigger warnings etc but honestly you can't expect the rest of the world to shelter you from your issues.
TW self harm (as per site rules)
Spoiler
Original post by hotpud
Fair enough. But then we are in that awkward problem of the simple reality that everything is a trigger for someone or other. Where do we draw the line of benefitting the majority at the detriment of a small minority?
I find this your attitude and others highly ironic to be perfectly honest. All we’ve done for the past three years is give into a small minority in various avenues of politics. I object to this and I’m putting the minority ahead? Fascinating. Approximately 1.25m have eating disorders by the way.
Original post by imlikeahermit
I find this your attitude and others highly ironic to be perfectly honest. All we’ve done for the past three years is give into a small minority in various avenues of politics. I object to this and I’m putting the minority ahead? Fascinating. Approximately 1.25m have eating disorders by the way.
If somebody else had made this thread in a universe where you weren't personally affected by this you would 100% be telling them to get a grip and guffawing about how the left gets triggered by everything.
Original post by Captain Haddock
If somebody else had made this thread in a universe where you weren't personally affected by this you would 100% be telling them to get a grip and guffawing about how the left gets triggered by everything.
And that makes my argument less relevant to mental health struggles does it?
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