Bristol BEATS OXFORD in the 2021 Research Excellence Framework
The Research Excellence Framework 2021 results are out and......
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/ref-2021-research-excellence-framework-results-announced
Oxford is no longer even a "top 6" UK university. It may not be better to apply to Bristol because of the mindset of some employers, but has it become abundantly clear that if you want to get a good education it's better to go to Bristol?
If you want to learn from better researchers, or the best researchers, why would you even consider applying to Oxford when it's not even a "top 6" university?
Does Bristol have significantly better postgraduate courses than Oxford?
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/ref-2021-research-excellence-framework-results-announced
Oxford is no longer even a "top 6" UK university. It may not be better to apply to Bristol because of the mindset of some employers, but has it become abundantly clear that if you want to get a good education it's better to go to Bristol?
If you want to learn from better researchers, or the best researchers, why would you even consider applying to Oxford when it's not even a "top 6" university?
Does Bristol have significantly better postgraduate courses than Oxford?
(edited 1 year ago)
Scroll to see replies
Oh this will be a good thread
Original post by Callicious
Oh this will be a good thread
I can feel it... 10 pages by evening.
(edited 1 year ago)
Original post by Summer Bird
I can feel it... 10 pages by evening.
Feel it in your bones!
Original post by Callicious
Feel it in your bones!
And they'll have to move this to educational debate forum. This is going to cause immense pain to TSR Oxbridge population.
Original post by tsrholicc
--snip--
If you want to learn from better researchers, or the best researchers, why would you even consider applying to Oxford when it's not even a "top 6" university?
--snip--
If you want to learn from better researchers, or the best researchers, why would you even consider applying to Oxford when it's not even a "top 6" university?
--snip--
THE:
However, the rule change has been linked to universities’ decisions to move many staff on to teaching-only contracts in recent years, with the latest data showing that about 20,000 academics are employed on such terms compared with five years ago.
However, the rule change has been linked to universities’ decisions to move many staff on to teaching-only contracts in recent years, with the latest data showing that about 20,000 academics are employed on such terms compared with five years ago.
Pretty common to hear students complain about the research superstar who gave very unsatisfactory teaching... maybe you'd be better off being taught by someone who was there to teach and for whom teaching wasn't an unwanted irritation?
if you're doing a doctorate or MRes I'd expect you're better off looking at which unis have groups doing the research you're interested in rather than playing league table bingo.
Original post by tsrholicc
The Research Excellence Framework 2021 results are out and......
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/ref-2021-research-excellence-framework-results-announced
Oxford is no longer even a "top 6" UK university. It may not be better to apply to Bristol because of the mindset of some employers, but has it become abundantly clear that if you want to get a good education it's better to go to Bristol?
If you want to learn from better researchers, or the best researchers, why would you even consider applying to Oxford when it's not even a "top 6" university?
Does Bristol have significantly better postgraduate courses than Oxford?
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/ref-2021-research-excellence-framework-results-announced
Oxford is no longer even a "top 6" UK university. It may not be better to apply to Bristol because of the mindset of some employers, but has it become abundantly clear that if you want to get a good education it's better to go to Bristol?
If you want to learn from better researchers, or the best researchers, why would you even consider applying to Oxford when it's not even a "top 6" university?
Does Bristol have significantly better postgraduate courses than Oxford?
Hiya, thanks for starting a really interesting thread
Just letting you know that I've moved your thread to a more appropriate forum and altered the title to be accurate to the article.
Original post by tsrholicc
The Research Excellence Framework 2021 results are out and......
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/ref-2021-research-excellence-framework-results-announced
Oxford is no longer even a "top 6" UK university. It may not be better to apply to Bristol because of the mindset of some employers, but has it become abundantly clear that if you want to get a good education it's better to go to Bristol?
If you want to learn from better researchers, or the best researchers, why would you even consider applying to Oxford when it's not even a "top 6" university?
Does Bristol have significantly better postgraduate courses than Oxford?
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/ref-2021-research-excellence-framework-results-announced
Oxford is no longer even a "top 6" UK university. It may not be better to apply to Bristol because of the mindset of some employers, but has it become abundantly clear that if you want to get a good education it's better to go to Bristol?
If you want to learn from better researchers, or the best researchers, why would you even consider applying to Oxford when it's not even a "top 6" university?
Does Bristol have significantly better postgraduate courses than Oxford?
I use the REF power index as the best measure of a whole universities research significance (it factors volume & quality of research), besides research really matters on a field level.
oxford has the highest score in the power ranking...
(edited 1 year ago)
The University of York comes in at number 10, dismissing (unfair) accusations of it being a second tier (or worse) university. It used to be a top 10 university several years ago, and clearly the REF shows it is still a strong university (even more so, actually, as it's improved in standing) despite TSR snobbery.
Its important to understand what is being ranked, universities submit research, knowing roughly where it stacks up, so if your faculties specifically don’t submit your research with lower output your score jumps in the quality ranking but drops in the overall output, the link provided is a measure of GPA relative to 4* research, but how much research as well as how much 4* research is important. If your looking for the overall perspective power rating (which is essentially an index of volume & the assessed quality GPA) is the best indicator of research output & potential on a macro level, when what really matters is specific research groups & labs anyway...
(edited 1 year ago)
Note: In the latest REF universities had to submit all of their research active staff. As has been pointed out, Research Power tries to measure quantity x quality.
I work at Bristol as an admissions tutor (and I’m delighted with the REF results) but I’d strongly advise against focusing on metrics when making decisions. Getting a feel for an institution and deciding how happy you would be studying there is far more important.
I work at Bristol as an admissions tutor (and I’m delighted with the REF results) but I’d strongly advise against focusing on metrics when making decisions. Getting a feel for an institution and deciding how happy you would be studying there is far more important.
(edited 1 year ago)
Original post by aaq1
Lol research power means quantity... in terms of quality, Bristol is way ahead of Oxford
And BTW Bristol is only #5
Cambridge is NOT EVEN A TOP 10 UNIVERSITY for research impact.
Sure Oxbridge staff are producing a lot of research....MEDIOCRE RESEARCH!!!
Original post by tsrholicc
Lol research power means quantity... in terms of quality, Bristol is way ahead of Oxford
And BTW Bristol is only #5
Cambridge is NOT EVEN A TOP 10 UNIVERSITY for research impact.
Sure Oxbridge staff are producing a lot of research....MEDIOCRE RESEARCH!!!
And BTW Bristol is only #5
Cambridge is NOT EVEN A TOP 10 UNIVERSITY for research impact.
Sure Oxbridge staff are producing a lot of research....MEDIOCRE RESEARCH!!!
Research power is an index of quantity & quality.
if you give 2 researchers the same grant and one came up with one paper at 4* standard, and the other had 2 papers at 4* & 2 at 3* the first researcher would have a REF GPA of 4.0 but the second at 3.5 despite publishing 4x the volume including double the volume at 4* level.
now obviously this is a crude analogy but it’s why you need to delve deeper then simply some headline rankings. And why RP will be w better indicator of who’s going to get more funding going forward.
Original post by aaq1
This has got to be a piece of good news for those who really want to go to Oxbridge. A number of candidates will now go to Bristol and likes instead of Oxbridge. Thereby reducing competition for Oxbridge.
Would rather go to Gloucestershire uni than go to Bristol...
Original post by mnot
Research power is an index of quantity & quality.
if you give 2 researchers the same grant and one came up with one paper at 4* standard, and the other had 2 papers at 4* & 2 at 3* the first researcher would have a REF GPA of 4.0 but the second at 3.5 despite publishing 4x the volume including double the volume at 4* level.
now obviously this is a crude analogy but it’s why you need to delve deeper then simply some headline rankings. And why RP will be w better indicator of who’s going to get more funding going forward.
if you give 2 researchers the same grant and one came up with one paper at 4* standard, and the other had 2 papers at 4* & 2 at 3* the first researcher would have a REF GPA of 4.0 but the second at 3.5 despite publishing 4x the volume including double the volume at 4* level.
now obviously this is a crude analogy but it’s why you need to delve deeper then simply some headline rankings. And why RP will be w better indicator of who’s going to get more funding going forward.
It's just a FACT that when quantity is removed, Oxford is worse than Bristol. Bristol also has far fewer academics than Oxford (probably less than half) and it's still in the top 10 for research power. Despite being tiny, it's in the top 10, so obviously it seems like Oxford is full of people who do nothing all day long lmao
You're just trying to DEFRAUD people by making it seem like Oxford academics produce like four times more work than Bristol academics for the same grant haha. Nice try. It's complete nonsense and I'm so sorry to see that you Oxford graduates have been humiliated so badly by Bristol that you've resorted to telling blatant lying that are easy to catch.
+Oxford is only 2 places ahead of Bristol for research impact despite it's much large number of academics. Which means it's producing useless research too. So many academics together can't even come up with any useful research questions !!!
It's time to shut down useless universities which take our tax money and spend time wasting it on useless research questions.
Original post by tsrholicc
It's just a FACT that when quantity is removed, Oxford is worse than Bristol. Bristol also has far fewer academics than Oxford (probably less than half) and it's still in the top 10 for research power. Despite being tiny, it's in the top 10, so obviously it seems like Oxford is full of people who do nothing all day long lmao
You're just trying to DEFRAUD people by making it seem like Oxford academics produce like four times more work than Bristol academics for the same grant haha. Nice try. It's complete nonsense and I'm so sorry to see that you Oxford graduates have been humiliated so badly by Bristol that you've resorted to telling blatant lying that are easy to catch.
+Oxford is only 2 places ahead of Bristol for research impact despite it's much large number of academics. Which means it's producing useless research too. So many academics together can't even come up with any useful research questions !!!
It's time to shut down useless universities which take our tax money and spend time wasting it on useless research questions.
You're just trying to DEFRAUD people by making it seem like Oxford academics produce like four times more work than Bristol academics for the same grant haha. Nice try. It's complete nonsense and I'm so sorry to see that you Oxford graduates have been humiliated so badly by Bristol that you've resorted to telling blatant lying that are easy to catch.
+Oxford is only 2 places ahead of Bristol for research impact despite it's much large number of academics. Which means it's producing useless research too. So many academics together can't even come up with any useful research questions !!!
It's time to shut down useless universities which take our tax money and spend time wasting it on useless research questions.
Im not an Oxford graduate nor have I ever worked as an academic their, I am a published scientific researcher in the leading high I.F publications & conferences (and as i say not at Oxbridge or Bristol or London), i was making a point about the need to asses quality & quantity simultaneously and their is a reason both are valued when funding is distributed, its not defrauding people to value both the volume & quality of research (especially when the lower quality research is largely 3* graded research).
Frankly your posts are laughable and can only be viewed as satirical in nature. Much of the research in the UK is funded through private sector & or international consortiums where only a fraction is UK government spend, its worth noting 3* research is: “Quality that is internationally excellent in terms of originality, significance and rigour but which falls short of the highest standards of excellence.” It would be silly and in no ones interest for a researcher to produce a body of work & only publish 4* efforts to preserve REF-GPA, and of course nobody does this or even consider ps doing this...
Then again i view you as a troll, who doesn’t understand the world of professional research either in academia or in private consulting firms or think-tanks.
Original post by mnot
It would be silly and in no ones interest for a researcher to produce a body of work & only publish 4* efforts to preserve REF-GPA, and of course nobody does this or even consider ps doing this...
And on that note, if you have been involved in trying to determine which paper is 3* and which is 4*, it’s a near impossible job and there is no obvious algorithmic way of doing this - or everyone would be using that algorithm to game the process. From my (quite significant) experience of doing this, you can spot the top ~10% of papers that are a solid 4* (1000 citations in a few months, flagged by a journal as a hot topic etc) and the tail end of 3* which are a bit marginal. Everything else is highly subjective / pure guesswork at that 3* / 4* boundary.
Original post by mnot
Im not an Oxford graduate nor have I ever worked as an academic their, I am a published scientific researcher in the leading high I.F publications & conferences (and as i say not at Oxbridge or Bristol or London), i was making a point about the need to asses quality & quantity simultaneously and their is a reason both are valued when funding is distributed, its not defrauding people to value both the volume & quality of research (especially when the lower quality research is largely 3* graded research).
Frankly your posts are laughable and can only be viewed as satirical in nature. Much of the research in the UK is funded through private sector & or international consortiums where only a fraction is UK government spend, its worth noting 3* research is: “Quality that is internationally excellent in terms of originality, significance and rigour but which falls short of the highest standards of excellence.” It would be silly and in no ones interest for a researcher to produce a body of work & only publish 4* efforts to preserve REF-GPA, and of course nobody does this or even consider ps doing this...
Then again i view you as a troll, who doesn’t understand the world of professional research either in academia or in private consulting firms or think-tanks.
Frankly your posts are laughable and can only be viewed as satirical in nature. Much of the research in the UK is funded through private sector & or international consortiums where only a fraction is UK government spend, its worth noting 3* research is: “Quality that is internationally excellent in terms of originality, significance and rigour but which falls short of the highest standards of excellence.” It would be silly and in no ones interest for a researcher to produce a body of work & only publish 4* efforts to preserve REF-GPA, and of course nobody does this or even consider ps doing this...
Then again i view you as a troll, who doesn’t understand the world of professional research either in academia or in private consulting firms or think-tanks.
You literally acted like Oxford academics are producing many times the research people at Bristol are producing hahaha.... too bad you've been exposed.
Bristol is not just better in terms of quality, but also probably quantity. Trying to pass this truth off as satirical isn't going to change it
It's time to take away Oxford's funds and give them to superior people
(edited 1 year ago)
Original post by Mr Wednesday
And on that note, if you have been involved in trying to determine which paper is 3* and which is 4*, it’s a near impossible job and there is no obvious algorithmic way of doing this - or everyone would be using that algorithm to game the process. From my (quite significant) experience of doing this, you can spot the top ~10% of papers that are a solid 4* (1000 citations in a few months, flagged by a journal as a hot topic etc) and the tail end of 3* which are a bit marginal. Everything else is highly subjective / pure guesswork at that 3* / 4* boundary.
Lol more desperation. Give it up already the research impact rankings are clear that Oxbridge are useless institutions producing crappy "woke" stuff
Cambridge isn't even the top 10 and Oxford is being pushed out too LMAO
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