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    (Original post by jacketpotato)
    You might not be able to land a job with a first year salary like that straight out of uni
    I was jesting :-)
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    (Original post by Over_The_Odds)
    I was jesting :-)
    Oops, sorry! http://cdn.ezprezzo.com/crazypics/oops14.jpg
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    (Original post by Over_The_Odds)
    They'd have to throw in a company car, for me.

    Even then I'd probably only settle for 38k.
    Its private jet nowadays, London rush hour traffic is ridiculas!
    Btw, my friends doing Medicine; it takes 6 years for the degree, I believe. He then wants to go into a hospital which takes futher education. I'll ask him again, but I think he said it takes 8/9 years to be earning them mega bucks!
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    (Original post by RyanT)
    Oh look economics is in the top5.

    Thanks for making my day, that's a good chap.

    P.S. Law isn't that hard and doesn't demonstrate that many skills other then hard work. I wouldn't treat a law graduate as anything special if I was an employer given they haven't proven any numeracy or anything interesting.

    To be fair, you'd think law was better then land&property management though. Lawyers are well paid, but how many law graduates really go into it?
    Ok, I'll bite the bullet!

    Law is not your average degree course, in that it requires a unique set of skills. Sometimes, lawyers can be pedants which doesn't really have a utility in the business world -I'll accept that.

    However, most legal students who don't get overly fussed about theories, but the practical element of law do have the transferrable skills that are required for a wide variety of career paths. A law degree for example, shows people in areas such as politics, local government, consultancy, law, journalism to name but a few, that the candidate has the communication, study and analytical skills required to pursue a career in that sector.
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    I know at the top 15 big city firms trainees can expect between 32-37.5k starting salary, and 60-70k on qualification.

    Take a look; http://www.rollonfriday.com/
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    (Original post by ExDeusVenitBritannia)
    Why does the money matter? I thought law was like medicine, not a job but a vocation. You know, to help people. A person's salary is not proportional to their ability to help people through their job.
    LOL!!!!!
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    (Original post by iamorgan)
    However, most legal students who don't get overly fussed about theories, but the practical element of law do have the transferrable skills that are required for a wide variety of career paths.
    TBF, the law students who drift through without developing an interest in theory tend to be the ones with the skills of the legal technician and begin to lack imagination.
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    (Original post by GR3YFOXXX)
    The reason why LAW graduates dont show up on the top 15 is because a Law graduate is not a qualified solicitor or barrister. Law grads have to do an additional year to pass the LPC. Therefore they wont start earning a salary untill 2 or 3 years after graduation. Most law firms in the City offer starting salaries ranging between 32k and 100k. The US firms located in London all have starting salaries of over 92k. If you look at the times 100 graduate employers, there are 5 law firms there. Such as Clifford Chance, Eversheds and Simmons and Simmons. A law degree from a good University is one of the most prestigious academic qualifications going.
    What would be considered a "good university"?

    In other words, how far down the league table are we talking?
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    Does this level of salary apply to those who are graduates of other degrees, i.e. English, and then do the conversion to Law afterwards?
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    Hey guys, I know this is irrelevant to the topic. But im new here, so thats my excuse Can anybody help me out with a good introduction to my essay? It would be greatly appreciated !

    So here is the essay topic..

    The perception of justice in Australia is often that we are 'soft on crime'.

    Any help would be great. Thanks guys x
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    (Original post by *Star*Guitar*)
    I hope some people with actual knowledge of legal careers start posting on here soon.

    I'm a fully qualified solictor and I work for a magic circle firm in London. I finished my training contract last year, and I earn 65k.

    I'm going back to uni in september to study medicine (hence being a tsr user at the ripe old age of 25). Not for the money, but because I'm really interested in it.

    On the subject of starting salaries, when I started my training contract I got 42k. I studied law at King's in London and did well. But in terms of my job and starting salary I was much, much better off then the vast majority of my cohort. Getting a job at a magic circle firm is the only place where you will make any real money as a young solicitor. However, getting a job at one of these firms is unbelievably competitive. As in, you have no conception of how competitive. I had 6 interviews before I was offered my position and had to do all kinds of psychometric testing etc etc.

    The vast majority of my peers couldn't even get work in the legal profession post-university, and those that did were working for crap regional firms or high street firms, earning low 20's.

    If you want to be a lawyer, that's fine, but you better be top of your year with all the right extra-curriculars and have attended a good (preferably london or oxbridge) redbrick university, otherwise, you're going to make diddlysquat. These, brothers and sisters, are the facts.
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    (Original post by marijuanahero)
    I'm a fully qualified solictor and I work for a magic circle firm in London. I finished my training contract last year, and I earn 65k.

    I'm going back to uni in september to study medicine (hence being a tsr user at the ripe old age of 25). Not for the money, but because I'm really interested in it.

    On the subject of starting salaries, when I started my training contract I got 42k. I studied law at King's in London and did well. But in terms of my job and starting salary I was much, much better off then the vast majority of my cohort. Getting a job at a magic circle firm is the only place where you will make any real money as a young solicitor. However, getting a job at one of these firms is unbelievably competitive. As in, you have no conception of how competitive. I had 6 interviews before I was offered my position and had to do all kinds of psychometric testing etc etc.

    The vast majority of my peers couldn't even get work in the legal profession post-university, and those that did were working for crap regional firms or high street firms, earning low 20's.

    If you want to be a lawyer, that's fine, but you better be top of your year with all the right extra-curriculars and have attended a good (preferably london or oxbridge) redbrick university, otherwise, you're going to make diddlysquat. These, brothers and sisters, are the facts.
    Hi,

    Thank you for providing your own personal experience. As a magic circle solicitor you are probably in the right position to give insight, and advice aspiring lawyers.
    Can I ask you why you are switching to medicine? Are you not satisfied with the work at your law firm?
    I've already heard of the substantial drop-out rate from major city firms, and comments like yours support this.
    It really helps to understand if current lawyers are truly happy with their lives and what they do.

    I am planning to start law in September and my choices include Bristol, Birmingham, and Soton. I've asked this question on TSR but I am really unsure because even though B'ham may not be as prestigious as Bristol, I really liked the campus, and the general atmosphere at the university. I think I could fit in well.
    Would you consider these good redbrick universities, as you put it? Would I be considered by Big Law in London if I were to choose either one of these institutions?
    Mind you I will already have three years of valuable work experience overseas and speak two languages fluently. This is just to let you know that I am already aware that a law degree on its own is never enough.
    Southampton isn't truly a redbrick but many people class it as such.

    Thank you in advance!

    P.S. there is one thing I disagree with:
    "crap regional firms or high street firms"
    I know lawyers are full of ego (sometimes myself included) but I also believe that humility is important. Some people may choose to stay regional because they might not have any intentions for whatever reason to move to London. Personally one day I'd like to practice in the City...
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    (Original post by Mattia)
    Hi,

    Thank you for providing your own personal experience. As a magic circle solicitor you are probably in the right position to give insight, and advice aspiring lawyers.
    Can I ask you why you are switching to medicine? Are you not satisfied with the work at your law firm?
    I've already heard of the substantial drop-out rate from major city firms, and comments like yours support this.
    It really helps to understand if current lawyers are truly happy with their lives and what they do.

    I am planning to start law in September and my choices include Bristol, Birmingham, and Soton. I've asked this question on TSR but I am really unsure because even though B'ham may not be as prestigious as Bristol, I really liked the campus, and the general atmosphere at the university. I think I could fit in well.
    Would you consider these good redbrick universities, as you put it? Would I be considered by Big Law in London if I were to choose either one of these institutions?
    Mind you I will already have three years of valuable work experience overseas and speak two languages fluently. This is just to let you know that I am already aware that a law degree on its own is never enough.
    Southampton isn't truly a redbrick but many people class it as such.

    Thank you in advance!

    P.S. there is one thing I disagree with:
    "crap regional firms or high street firms"
    I know lawyers are full of ego (sometimes myself included) but I also believe that humility is important. Some people may choose to stay regional because they might not have any intentions for whatever reason to move to London. Personally one day I'd like to practice in the City...

    Hey,

    First things first, regional firms are generally crap in comparison to big city firms. This is an indisputable truth. I know this from experience of dealing with them. If they're not in the top 40 of the Legal 500 I don't want to know. Any city lawyer will tell you that :yes:

    Inefficient, slow, low rate, and irritating.

    I'm switching career because commercial law is horrendously, horridly, hideously boring. And further, I couldn't care less whether or not some faceless multinational who we are putting together a deal for makes an extra billion in time for their financial results or not, and that's essentially what we exist for: to help big business put noughts on balance sheets while making as much money in fees as we can. It's utterly meaningless. Also, we literally sell our souls to work in magic circle firms. I work all the hours God sends. I make a shedload of cash, and half my life is put on expenses anyway, but I literally don't have time to spend it. I get up, go to work, come home, go to bed. And when I am working on a big deal or project, I work nights and weekends. In my firm, when they phone you, they expect you in the office 45 minutes later. Doesn't matter what you're doing. Get in or get out.

    Another reason I'm switching is that lawyers are P-R-I-C-K-S. All they care about is cash, and the competition to climb the ladder to make more cash. They're boring, one dimensional people (well, that's not wholly true, but the successful ones are) who I would avoid if I met them at a dinner party. Nice people get out of law as soon as they find a suitable alternative. There are a few pleasant partners, but the majority are dicks.

    I could stay on and I most likely would make partner in about 8 years, and then be earning around about a million, a million two, every year. But at what cost? I'd rather find my career meaningful and interesting and to work with people who have the same goals in terms of their job satisfaction and who aren't solely motivated by money.

    But enough about me...


    Birmingham and Bristol are two very good universities for law. If you qualify with a first you have a reasonable chance of making it to a magic circle firm, provided you are impressive at interview and have a well developed C.V. Also, start cultivating contacts and applying for vac schemes NOW! And make sure you get involved with ALL the law stuff that your law school does. Be on the committees and all the rest.

    But I have to tell you, the OVERWHELMING majority of my colleagues are Oxbridge, King's, UCL, or LSE. That's just the way it is. It's a MYTH that lawyers are well paid. The elite among us are extraordinarily well rewarded, but the overwhelming majority of solicitors work in, as stated before, crap regional or high street firms, and they make buttons by comparison


    If you're not absolutely certain you want to do law, do NOT do a law degree. If you want to get into something else, or be middle management in a big company, you can do this without a law degree. Study something you love at the best institution you can get into. You'll have far more fun reading classics at Oxford than Law somewhere else if a legal career isn't absolutely what you want to do, and doing this will have no effect on your abilities to get into pretty much any other career that doesn't require a vocational degree. Get a property textbook, or better still, tax and trusts, read the first 150 pages, and then decide if you want to do law. Because that's the reality of it.

    This advice is what I WISH I had been told when I was in your situation. I don't regret my career to date, but I would have had a LOT more fun had I done something else.


    Good luck.

    P.S If you're wondering why I'm slating my firm so openly, it's because I resigned on Tuesday when I got my offer from med school, and the worst my firm can do now is put me on gardening leave while I serve my notice. What a tragedy that would be!!!
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    (Original post by marijuanahero)
    Hey,

    First things first, regional firms are generally crap in comparison to big city firms. This is an indisputable truth. I know this from experience of dealing with them. If they're not in the top 40 of the Legal 500 I don't want to know. Any city lawyer will tell you that :yes:

    Inefficient, slow, low rate, and irritating.

    I'm switching career because commercial law is horrendously, horridly, hideously boring. And further, I couldn't care less whether or not some faceless multinational who we are putting together a deal for makes an extra billion in time for their financial results or not, and that's essentially what we exist for: to help big business put noughts on balance sheets while making as much money in fees as we can. It's utterly meaningless. Also, we literally sell our souls to work in magic circle firms. I work all the hours God sends. I make a shedload of cash, and half my life is put on expenses anyway, but I literally don't have time to spend it. I get up, go to work, come home, go to bed. And when I am working on a big deal or project, I work nights and weekends. In my firm, when they phone you, they expect you in the office 45 minutes later. Doesn't matter what you're doing. Get in or get out.

    Another reason I'm switching is that lawyers are P-R-I-C-K-S. All they care about is cash, and the competition to climb the ladder to make more cash. They're boring, one dimensional people (well, that's not wholly true, but the successful ones are) who I would avoid if I met them at a dinner party. Nice people get out of law as soon as they find a suitable alternative. There are a few pleasant partners, but the majority are dicks.

    I could stay on and I most likely would make partner in about 8 years, and then be earning around about a million, a million two, every year. But at what cost? I'd rather find my career meaningful and interesting and to work with people who have the same goals in terms of their job satisfaction and who aren't solely motivated by money.

    But enough about me...


    Birmingham and Bristol are two very good universities for law. If you qualify with a first you have a reasonable chance of making it to a magic circle firm, provided you are impressive at interview and have a well developed C.V. Also, start cultivating contacts and applying for vac schemes NOW! And make sure you get involved with ALL the law stuff that your law school does. Be on the committees and all the rest.

    But I have to tell you, the OVERWHELMING majority of my colleagues are Oxbridge, King's, UCL, or LSE. That's just the way it is. It's a MYTH that lawyers are well paid. The elite among us are extraordinarily well rewarded, but the overwhelming majority of solicitors work in, as stated before, crap regional or high street firms, and they make buttons by comparison


    If you're not absolutely certain you want to do law, do NOT do a law degree. If you want to get into something else, or be middle management in a big company, you can do this without a law degree. Study something you love at the best institution you can get into. You'll have far more fun reading classics at Oxford than Law somewhere else if a legal career isn't absolutely what you want to do, and doing this will have no effect on your abilities to get into pretty much any other career that doesn't require a vocational degree. Get a property textbook, or better still, tax and trusts, read the first 150 pages, and then decide if you want to do law. Because that's the reality of it.

    This advice is what I WISH I had been told when I was in your situation. I don't regret my career to date, but I would have had a LOT more fun had I done something else.


    Good luck.

    P.S If you're wondering why I'm slating my firm so openly, it's because I resigned on Tuesday when I got my offer from med school, and the worst my firm can do now is put me on gardening leave while I serve my notice. What a tragedy that would be!!!
    That was very detailed and insightful. Thanks a lot!
    I had yet to speak to a magic circle lawyer at this point in time.

    Gardening leave would probably be the most amazing thing for you.
    I really hope all goes well for you, but I doubt it won't since you're most likely to be very clever. Which med school did you choose?

    Also, do you have any advice on how to cultivate significant contacts in the legal sector while at university?
    Did you personally meet any B'ham graduates at your firm?
    I'll try to join as many events as possible but I'll probably also need a part-time job. Knowing that getting a first will already be very very difficult, will joining too many things at once hinder the prospects of obtaining a good honours? Can someone truly manage?

    Excuse me if I insist, but it is very helpful to hear from people in the profession, and your case is certainly very interesting.
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    I'm sorry I can't be bothered to read all the above posts simply because it is too long. The situation is this, I will be applying next year and yes money is one of the considerations that has to be taken into account.

    Law is probably one of the highest paid jobs if you make it, the league table that the OP refers to includes every university which is why Medicine comes top.

    Medicine no matter where you go will have a job almost on the plate, that's just the way it is. So you can go to Cambridge/Oxford or Sussex but still come out with a job. Hence starting salaries are higher. With law you have to target the top 20 if you want a job that pays well and secondly, if you want to work in the City then you are primarily looking at the top 10 universities. The league table takes into account every single university such as Greenwich and London Metropolitan, without any disrespect hardly many from there will be becoming a 'top' barrister or solicitor. Hence, Law has not been displayed in the table of high earners.

    A commercial barrister is forecasted to earn around £200,000 within the first 5 years of call and a criminal one, £90,000 (provided you are good). Take that as you may.

    To illustrate my point, here's two examples (although it is the extreme end):

    http://l2b.thelawyer.com/1003460.article

    http://www.oeclaw.co.uk/page.asp?p=1668

    Lastly, to the troll who suggested that law is not a hard degree, well I would like to invite he/she to take my position attend 8 hours of lecture per week, read around 700 pages per week of just cases and core reading, spend most evenings in trying to figure out complex legal problems, get a 2.1 and still be left with very bleak prospects. Can they hack it?...I doubt very much. It is by and far the hardest degree. Take this seriously when I tell you, since I was also a prospect of Medicine, Law is x10 harder in terms of intensity and intelligence.
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    (Original post by Mattia)
    That was very detailed and insightful. Thanks a lot!
    I had yet to speak to a magic circle lawyer at this point in time.

    Gardening leave would probably be the most amazing thing for you.
    I really hope all goes well for you, but I doubt it won't since you're most likely to be very clever. Which med school did you choose?

    Also, do you have any advice on how to cultivate significant contacts in the legal sector while at university?
    Did you personally meet any B'ham graduates at your firm?
    I'll try to join as many events as possible but I'll probably also need a part-time job. Knowing that getting a first will already be very very difficult, will joining too many things at once hinder the prospects of obtaining a good honours? Can someone truly manage?

    Excuse me if I insist, but it is very helpful to hear from people in the profession, and your case is certainly very interesting.
    Hi, I don't mean to intrude but I am a Birmingham undergraduate and know a couple of graduates that I met during law fairs. It does not set you back one bit, if you get a 2.1 or preferably a 1st from Birmingham, MC is in your sights, provided you have the usual CV fillers and dedication.

    I work part-time, actually 24 hours per weekend, its a long time. But it does slightly hinder your chances, but you have to live. I think it does have an advantageous side too, primarily showing time-management skills and being able to juggle many things in life, just like a lawyer. So it would be a good idea.

    With CV, it never becomes too much. Do as much as you can to set you apart from the rest. Most law students are very bright and intelligent, most are likely to get 2.1's or more. If you do attend Birmingham I would suggest becoming part of the Student Law Review, Holdsworth Club, Amnesty International to name a few.

    But make your decision wisely, most legal prospects have very big hopes when on the verge of studying law. But PLEASE PLEASE be sure that you want a legal career, if you enjoy studying day and night, then a law degree is for you. If you think you can work 10-12 hours a day, a legal career is for you. Decide wisely whatever you do.

    ALL THE BEST!!!! :yes:
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    (Original post by maximusbarr)
    Hi, I don't mean to intrude but I am a Birmingham undergraduate and know a couple of graduates that I met during law fairs. It does not set you back one bit, if you get a 2.1 or preferably a 1st from Birmingham, MC is in your sights, provided you have the usual CV fillers and dedication.

    I work part-time, actually 24 hours per weekend, its a long time. But it does slightly hinder your chances, but you have to live. I think it does have an advantageous side too, primarily showing time-management skills and being able to juggle many things in life, just like a lawyer. So it would be a good idea.

    With CV, it never becomes too much. Do as much as you can to set you apart from the rest. Most law students are very bright and intelligent, most are likely to get 2.1's or more. If you do attend Birmingham I would suggest becoming part of the Student Law Review, Holdsworth Club, Amnesty International to name a few.

    But make your decision wisely, most legal prospects have very big hopes when on the verge of studying law. But PLEASE PLEASE be sure that you want a legal career, if you enjoy studying day and night, then a law degree is for you. If you think you can work 10-12 hours a day, a legal career is for you. Decide wisely whatever you do.

    ALL THE BEST!!!! :yes:
    Thank you,

    I know you're at Birmingham from your earlier posts in the law threads.
    I'm also aware of the fact that you chose it over Warwick.
    You consider it to be top 10 while a some people consider it to be borderline/top 15. I think it's quite underrated for some reason.
    Since you participated in a good amount of events during your two years at Bham, can you tell me if there are any firms in particular that target the university law graduates?

    I read about the Holdsworth Club when I visited the uni last week, which by the way stunned me (the campus of course). I'll probably look forward to joining it if I were to accept the offer.
    BTW were you one of the many second year guides there lol?
    It's good to hear that it is possible to work part-time while studying law, however and I hope you don't mind if I ask, are you on track to getting a 2.1 as you work 24 hours a week?

    ...and B'ham, Bristol, or Soton: no bias please!
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    (Original post by Mattia)
    Thank you,

    I know you're at Birmingham from your earlier posts in the law threads.
    I'm also aware of the fact that you chose it over Warwick.
    You consider it to be top 10 while a some people consider it to be borderline/top 15. I think it's quite underrated for some reason.
    Since you participated in a good amount of events during your two years at Bham, can you tell me if there are any firms in particular that target the university law graduates?

    I read about the Holdsworth Club when I visited the uni last week, which by the way stunned me (the campus of course). I'll probably look forward to joining it if I were to accept the offer.
    BTW were you one of the many second year guides there lol?
    It's good to hear that it is possible to work part-time while studying law, however and I hope you don't mind if I ask, are you on track to getting a 2.1 as you work 24 hours a week?

    ...and B'ham, Bristol, or Soton: no bias please!
    As a Bristol undergraduate I can't help but be biased in favour of Bristol. But I would say it has the best reputation of the three you've mentioned. We get plenty of attention from the big law firms. They put on presentation evenings, sponsor us for bar crawls etc. The ones that spring to mind for recent events are Slaughter & May, Linklaters, Allen & Ovary, DLA Piper, Lovells, Baker and Mckenzie etc.
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    (Original post by Mattia)
    Thank you,

    I know you're at Birmingham from your earlier posts in the law threads.
    I'm also aware of the fact that you chose it over Warwick.
    You consider it to be top 10 while a some people consider it to be borderline/top 15. I think it's quite underrated for some reason.
    Since you participated in a good amount of events during your two years at Bham, can you tell me if there are any firms in particular that target the university law graduates?

    I read about the Holdsworth Club when I visited the uni last week, which by the way stunned me (the campus of course). I'll probably look forward to joining it if I were to accept the offer.
    BTW were you one of the many second year guides there lol?
    It's good to hear that it is possible to work part-time while studying law, however and I hope you don't mind if I ask, are you on track to getting a 2.1 as you work 24 hours a week?

    ...and B'ham, Bristol, or Soton: no bias please!
    Haha well researched. Well firstly I don't think many people disagree that it is not top ten, it is very good for law but people on this forum are biased and hence like to place for example Exeter and Manchester above it (the law school which they study at).

    Secondly, in terms of being targeted, well, pretty much all of them, Clifford Chance, DLA, Freshfields, A&O, Linklaters, to name just a few. But its not about targeting, its more about can you sell yourself.

    No, I wasn't one of the second year guides unfortunately but I was in the law school itself. However, next time if you're on campus and have any problems or queries do let me know, maybe I could fill you in on the law school and meet you.

    Thirdly, I am actually hoping for a 1st this year, I got 2.1 last year but I am trying to go one better, whether that will happen time will tell. But it is hard work trying to have a job and studying at the same time, but I am just about coping.

    Fourthly, people here may think I am biased because I go to Birmingham, I'm not that deluded, I try to give an objective view on everything, but because I stray away from that elitist view many on here have, they slate me. If I'm honest with you, in terms of reputation Bristol is probably ahead. But to be frank, the difference between Bristol and Birmngham is zilch, it is negligible. If you go to Birmingham and get a good 2.1, it is worth just as much as a 2.1 from Bristol, there's nothing in it. The Birmingham law school has been doing tremendously in the last couple of years, with many getting into the MC/SC firms. So if you go for prestige then Bristol or Birmingham if you really like the other aspects.

    Hope you all the best and please decide carefully
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    I'm sorry, but I disagree hugely with the poster above. A 2:1 in law from Birmingham is a very poor indicator of your chances if getting into an MC/SC firm.

    My firm don't even interview 2:1 candidates. Why would they? 60 per cent of every law cohort graduates with a 2:1. A 2:1 is NOT good enough if you expect to reach the upper echelons of the legal profession. There are a few people with 2:1's among my colleagues, but thy are almost exclusively Oxbridge.

    Get a first or you're in trouble.
 
 
 
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