Would this count as dismissal and would you declare this when applying for jobs

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xAnbesix
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#1
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#1
I was under investigation at work, and I was subject to a disciplinary hearing, but I resigned before the date of my disciplinary meeting. However, the disciplinary meeting still went ahead after my resignation and my manager said to me "if I hadn't resigned, he would have dismissed me". Now, if I apply for future jobs and a question comes up like "have you ever been dismissed or subject to disciplinary actions etc" should I write no (because technically I resigned before I was dismissed, and during my employment period I didn't have a disciplinary meeting as this meeting took place after I resigned, so it didn't actually happen during my actual employment with the company) or should I still answer "yes" to that question. What do you suggest and what would you write? Thanks in advance guys
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xAnbesix
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#2
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#2
I was under investigation at work, and I was subject to a disciplinary hearing, but I resigned before the date of my disciplinary meeting. However, the disciplinary meeting still went ahead after my resignation and my manager said to me "if I hadn't resigned, he would have dismissed me". Now, if I apply for future jobs and a question comes up like "have you ever been dismissed or subject to disciplinary actions etc" should I write no (because technically I resigned before I was dismissed, and during my employment period I didn't have a disciplinary meeting as this meeting took place after I resigned, so it didn't actually happen during my actual employment with the company) or should I still answer "yes" to that question. What do you suggest and what would you write? Thanks in advance guys
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xAnbesix
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#3
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#3
I was under investigation at work, and I was subject to a disciplinary hearing, but I resigned before the date of my disciplinary meeting. However, the disciplinary meeting still went ahead after my resignation and my manager said to me "if I hadn't resigned, he would have dismissed me". Now, if I apply for future jobs and a question comes up like "have you ever been dismissed or subject to disciplinary actions etc" should I write no (because technically I resigned before I was dismissed, and during my employment period I didn't have a disciplinary meeting as this meeting took place after I resigned, so it didn't actually happen during my actual employment with the company) or should I still answer "yes" to that question. What do you suggest and what would you write? Thanks in advance guys
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xAnbesix
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#4
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#4
Would this count as dismissal and would you declare this when applying for jobs?

I was under investigation at work, and I was subject to a disciplinary hearing, but I resigned before the date of my disciplinary meeting. However, the disciplinary meeting still went ahead after my resignation and my manager said to me "if I hadn't resigned, he would have dismissed me". Now, if I apply for future jobs and a question comes up like "have you ever been dismissed or subject to disciplinary actions etc" should I write no (because technically I resigned before I was dismissed, and during my employment period I didn't have a disciplinary meeting as this meeting took place after I resigned, so it didn't actually happen during my actual employment with the company) or should I still answer "yes" to that question. What do you suggest and what would you write? Thanks in advance guys
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DataVenia
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#5
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#5
You were not dismissed, you resigned. You were not subject to disciplinary action, despite the hearing which took place in your absence. So, you could legitimately answer "No" to the hypothetical question "Have you ever been dismissed or the subject to disciplinary action?"

However, a potential question could be, "Have to ever been the subject of a disciplinary hearing?" - in which case you would need to answer "Yes" as the hearing took place even though you were not present.
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clarkenuttal
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#6
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(Original post by xAnbesix)
I was under investigation at work, and I was subject to a disciplinary hearing, but I resigned before the date of my disciplinary meeting. However, the disciplinary meeting still went ahead after my resignation and my manager said to me "if I hadn't resigned, he would have dismissed me". Now, if I apply for future jobs and a question comes up like "have you ever been dismissed or subject to disciplinary actions etc" should I write no (because technically I resigned before I was dismissed, and during my employment period I didn't have a disciplinary meeting as this meeting took place after I resigned, so it didn't actually happen during my actual employment with the company) or should I still answer "yes" to that question. What do you suggest and what would you write? Thanks in advance guys
Some jobs will clearly tell you that this includes if you were under investigation when you were sacked but even if it doesn’t then I would strongly recommend that you declare this. One of the most important thing is that your employer is trying to see your honesty and by not declaring or trying to hide this you are not being honest.
I am not saying that this will reduce the chance of you getting job because I personally know someone who applied for SC clearance in civil service job and been through same situation as you and he declared everything yet he got the job even though he didn’t think he would ever be able to after this. I am also not saying that you are definitely going to get it because every case is different but you need be honest about this and explain circumstances if and when you are presented an opportunity to do so.
I hope this helps
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xAnbesix
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#7
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#7
(Original post by clarkenuttal)
Some jobs will clearly tell you that this includes if you were under investigation when you were sacked but even if it doesn’t then I would strongly recommend that you declare this. One of the most important thing is that your employer is trying to see your honesty and by not declaring or trying to hide this you are not being honest.
I am not saying that this will reduce the chance of you getting job because I personally know someone who applied for SC clearance in civil service job and been through same situation as you and he declared everything yet he got the job even though he didn’t think he would ever be able to after this. I am also not saying that you are definitely going to get it because every case is different but you need be honest about this and explain circumstances if and when you are presented an opportunity to do so.
I hope this helps
Funnily enough it was actually the civil service from which I resigned from, and which would've dismissed me if I hadn't resigned. What job did he get if you don't mind me asking? I also don't know if this means I can't apply to any other civil service job now ☹️
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FutureCityGuy
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#8
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#8
Depends how the question was worded... and what the disciplinary found. For reference, I am a postgrad student, but also interview ALL THE TIME for my employer.

Fundamentally, you have to give an answer that wont disagree with your old employer's reference/background checks. Yes, making mistakes at work is bad... but lying about it is FAR WORSE.

If we were at interview, and you said to me "I'm not sure how to answer that question, there was some bad blood between me and other team members, I'd said some things I regret and I felt I should jump before I was pushed", then you'll be judged on the rest of your interview/technical skills (provided it's not for touching people inappropriately/drugs... then lower your sights to something that wont do background checks and learn to enjoy drinking in Weatherspoon's).

But, if you say "everything was fine, I was never in trouble" and then it comes back as "dude was disciplined for swearing at colleagues" then I can't have you on my team because honesty is important, and you're back to the land of 'spoons and shelf stacking (remember, before writing about a disciplinary in a reference, HR would double check that they wouldn't be in legal trouble by mentioning it).

Happy to talk through exactly how you should be explaining your specific situation to a future employer. We're not ogres, I've hired someone the other week who was given a disciplinary for using their phone at work... the call that got them shouted at and disciplined by a little man on a power trip was the one with us to schedule our interview... and loads who've had problems with lateness at their supermarket job during finals!
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xAnbesix
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#9
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#9
(Original post by DataVenia)
You were not dismissed, you resigned. You were not subject to disciplinary action, despite the hearing which took place in your absence. So, you could legitimately answer "No" to the hypothetical question "Have you ever been dismissed or the subject to disciplinary action?"

However, a potential question could be, "Have to ever been the subject of a disciplinary hearing?" - in which case you would need to answer "Yes" as the hearing took place even though you were not present.
Then I would probably have to answer "yes" to the first question too, as it incorporates the question "have you ever been the subject of a disciplinary hearing" ☹️
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hannychica
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#10
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#10
In your first sentence you say “I was subject to a disciplinary hearing” so you were subject to disciplinary action before you resigned, even if the meeting itself took place after you resigned. Also, did the meeting take place during your notice period? If you had a notice period, regardless of whether or not you worked it, your employment ends after the final day of your notice.

To me this is a clear “yes” and you should declare it accordingly. Your employer will have it on record so if they are asked for a reference and they bring it up, your application would be fraudulent.
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xAnbesix
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#11
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#11
(Original post by FutureCityGuy)
Depends how the question was worded... and what the disciplinary found. For reference, I am a postgrad student, but also interview ALL THE TIME for my employer.

Fundamentally, you have to give an answer that wont disagree with your old employer's reference/background checks. Yes, making mistakes at work is bad... but lying about it is FAR WORSE.

If we were at interview, and you said to me "I'm not sure how to answer that question, there was some bad blood between me and other team members, I'd said some things I regret and I felt I should jump before I was pushed", then you'll be judged on the rest of your interview/technical skills (provided it's not for touching people inappropriately/drugs... then lower your sights to something that wont do background checks and learn to enjoy drinking in Weatherspoon's).

But, if you say "everything was fine, I was never in trouble" and then it comes back as "dude was disciplined for swearing at colleagues" then I can't have you on my team because honesty is important, and you're back to the land of 'spoons and shelf stacking (remember, before writing about a disciplinary in a reference, HR would double check that they wouldn't be in legal trouble by mentioning it).

Happy to talk through exactly how you should be explaining your specific situation to a future employer. We're not ogres, I've hired someone the other week who was given a disciplinary for using their phone at work... the call that got them shouted at and disciplined by a little man on a power trip was the one with us to schedule our interview... and loads who've had problems with lateness at their supermarket job during finals!
I thought it would be my line manager who would be giving the reference? As the reference sheet asks for details of my previous manager and their details. The person who said that they would've dismissed me was the main manager, but my personal line manager was always nice to me and said I can always use her as a reference. So wouldn't my new potential job contact my line manager (providing I give them her contact details) or would they still contact HR?
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DataVenia
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#12
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#12
(Original post by xAnbesix)
Then I would probably have to answer "yes" to the first question too, as it incorporates the question "have you ever been the subject of a disciplinary hearing" ☹️
Agreed. That's why they've worded the question that way.

Clearly you did something at your previous company with warranted your ex-manager to say "he would have dismissed me", had you not resigned. It's reasonable for potential future employers to want to be aware of that.
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xAnbesix
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#13
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#13
(Original post by hannychica)
In your first sentence you say “I was subject to a disciplinary hearing” so you were subject to disciplinary action before you resigned, even if the meeting itself took place after you resigned. Also, did the meeting take place during your notice period? If you had a notice period, regardless of whether or not you worked it, your employment ends after the final day of your notice.

To me this is a clear “yes” and you should declare it accordingly. Your employer will have it on record so if they are asked for a reference and they bring it up, your application would be fraudulent.
I resigned with immediate effect so there was no notice period. I was told I would have a disciplinary meeting and a date was set for it, before I resigned. But the meeting still went ahead and took place even after my resignation, so technically I had a disciplinary meeting but it was after I resigned - so I never had a disciplinary meeting while I was actually in employment with that company, it only occured after I resigned and left. I attended the meeting but only to defend myself however it was disregarded and the manager still said to me that if I hadn't resigned, he would've dismissed me
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xAnbesix
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#14
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#14
(Original post by DataVenia)
Agreed. That's why they've worded the question that way.

Clearly you did something at your previous company with warranted your ex-manager to say "he would have dismissed me", had you not resigned. It's reasonable for potential future employers to want to be aware of that.
The reason was that because I was allegedly asleep on duty, but I wasn't and I said it was just sleepiness as a side effect of medication I was on but I was never actually "asleep", but my manager refused to believe this. I don't know if I'm likely to get another job after something like this 😞
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FutureCityGuy
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#15
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#15
(Original post by xAnbesix)
I thought it would be my line manager who would be giving the reference? As the reference sheet asks for details of my previous manager and their details. The person who said that they would've dismissed me was the main manager, but my personal line manager was always nice to me and said I can always use her as a reference. So wouldn't my new potential job contact my line manager (providing I give them her contact details) or would they still contact HR?
They SHOULD use the contact details as provided... but (and this is industry specific) your previous line manager can't lie if it could put her firm on the hook later down the line (e.g. are you a train driver who's been disciplined for drinking? Not mentioning it when asked "has X been disciplined?" could see your former employer in court when you crash a train). But if there aren't risks like that, they can say whatever they want.
Last edited by FutureCityGuy; 4 weeks ago
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Adz2042
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#16
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#16
This happened to me at a retail workplace, where I resigned before a disciplinary hearing, and I state 'no' on future applications.
The clue is in the wording 'have you ever been dismissed' - no one actually said it as you resigned before the question.
If the question was 'have you ever resigned before being dismissed', then yes would be the answer.

You only bring it up if the interviewer asks the question, and then you can go into more details. Otherwise, don't.
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threeportdrift
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#17
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#17
(Original post by xAnbesix)
I was under investigation at work, and I was subject to a disciplinary hearing, but I resigned before the date of my disciplinary meeting. However, the disciplinary meeting still went ahead after my resignation and my manager said to me "if I hadn't resigned, he would have dismissed me". Now, if I apply for future jobs and a question comes up like "have you ever been dismissed or subject to disciplinary actions etc" should I write no (because technically I resigned before I was dismissed, and during my employment period I didn't have a disciplinary meeting as this meeting took place after I resigned, so it didn't actually happen during my actual employment with the company) or should I still answer "yes" to that question. What do you suggest and what would you write? Thanks in advance guys
(Original post by Adz2042)
This happened to me at a retail workplace, where I resigned before a disciplinary hearing, and I state 'no' on future applications.
The clue is in the wording 'have you ever been dismissed' - no one actually said it as you resigned before the question.
If the question was 'have you ever resigned before being dismissed', then yes would be the answer.

You only bring it up if the interviewer asks the question, and then you can go into more details. Otherwise, don't.
You have been subject to disciplinary action though, even if you did not participate, so the answer is yes. If you are going to say No, then you have to weigh up the risk of being found out.

If you need to use this employer for a reference, there is a strong chance it will be mentioned. But if you can avoid using them, then there is little chance of being found out - unless you are applying to an employer who has very high security standards and ethical standards.
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xAnbesix
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#18
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#18
(Original post by threeportdrift)
You have been subject to disciplinary action though, even if you did not participate, so the answer is yes. If you are going to say No, then you have to weigh up the risk of being found out.

If you need to use this employer for a reference, there is a strong chance it will be mentioned. But if you can avoid using them, then there is little chance of being found out - unless you are applying to an employer who has very high security standards and ethical standards.
Would they contact my manager or the HR department for a reference? I would give them the details of my personal line manager, because she was always nice to me and said I can always use her as a reference if needed (it was the general manager who said he would've dismissed me if I hadn't resigned, not my personal line manager). So if gave the details of my line manager, would they contact her or would they try to contact the HR department?
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username5960917
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#19
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#19
This is why I'm terrified of ever working in retail again
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threeportdrift
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#20
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#20
(Original post by xAnbesix)
Would they contact my manager or the HR department for a reference? I would give them the details of my personal line manager, because she was always nice to me and said I can always use her as a reference if needed (it was the general manager who said he would've dismissed me if I hadn't resigned, not my personal line manager). So if gave the details of my line manager, would they contact her or would they try to contact the HR department?
They would use the details you gave them
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