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Shipbroker/Bunker Trader career

Hi All,

I wanted to know if anyone here is an experienced shipbroker or a bunker trader, I have a few questions based on this career path, any help would be marvellous!

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Reply 1

@Oxford Mum Sorry I couldn’t PM you, however it seems your elder son is a shipbroker ? Would you mind answering some questions regarding the career ? :smile:
(edited 3 years ago)

Reply 2

Original post by MontyJR
@Oxford Mum Sorry I couldn’t PM you, however it seems your elder son is a shipbroker ? Would you mind answering some questions regarding the career ? :smile:


Ok, shoot!

Reply 3

Original post by Oxford Mum
Ok, shoot!

Thank you !

Firstly, is he enjoying his role ? What’s his responsibilities, lifestyle(hours)? Does he travel a lot ?

Secondly, I’m currently doing business, however looking to do Shipping and logistics for a masters, would you say you need to be good at maths for this role? Just because I slightly lack.

Lastly, is there room for progression ? What’s the compensation like, for ship brokers? (Just in general)

Sorry for the list !

Looking forward to hearing back :smile:

Reply 4

Original post by MontyJR
Thank you !

Firstly, is he enjoying his role ? What’s his responsibilities, lifestyle(hours)? Does he travel a lot ?

Secondly, I’m currently doing business, however looking to do Shipping and logistics for a masters, would you say you need to be good at maths for this role? Just because I slightly lack.

Lastly, is there room for progression ? What’s the compensation like, for ship brokers? (Just in general)

Sorry for the list !

Looking forward to hearing back :smile:


No problem, Monty, list away!

My son has only just started being a trainee ship broker (a few months ago) so I do not know much about the big time. However, I will tell all

Since the age of 3 (when he saw the film "Titanic") my son has been obsessed with ships. He has a massive ship model collection and watches everything going about them. He is a complete ship anorak. On graduating from Oxford with a degree in German, he wanted to do something shippy, Unaware of the ship broker role, he decided to go into the cruise industry. It was a dead end job, so he decided to go for ship broking.

The main area to start is with the Institute of Chartered Ship Brokers (ICS). They run highly respected courses which are recognised throughout the world. They are not very expensive (I think about £1,500) and he studied after work. There are lectures by current ship brokers and a residential spring course (expensive) that is useful to some. The only problem is, the exams are fiendishly hard. My son passed the basic ship broking course, sale and purchase and tanker chartering. There were so few passes that the worldwide results were printed on a two page announcement in renowned ship broking magazine "Tradewinds". It also printed where you had sat the exam. In the entire world, only two people passed, my son and someone else in Ireland. The other guy was snapped up for a Maersk training course. However a mere month later, the pandemic hit.

Because of the pandemic, all the seminars took place virtually and you could hear the questions from the other students. As my son said, he was the only one who "got it". Everyone else just found it too hard. He seemed to be a natural. The best bit of the ICS is their networking events (I think anyone can turn up?) The lecturers turn up, the students turn up, some people on the fringe of ship broking (who provides services for them), but very few actual ship brokers. You can also join your local ICS. My son's is in Hull, and they have annual dinners etc now (but they are £60). It's all about making friends and influencing people.

Reply 5

OK, next bit. Looks like you are starting to take the right route. Business studies is good and the shipping masters really helps. Unfortunately, as a single mum, I could not afford to fund my son for a masters, so this avenue was closed to us. My son, therefore, had to resort to networking. This was absolutely the most soul destroying thing in the world. In fact, I would hesitate to recommend this career to anyone, unless you don't mind an awful lot of rejection, or the prospect of never becoming a ship broker. Because the industry is rumoured to be well paying, the world and his wife wants to get in.

The best thing about my son is that he is a world class networker. He loves going to events and talking to people. People really like him, and he has a great sense of humour. All interviewers claim that personality is the thing they are looking for, as you need to get on well with people. My son will go on holiday and I won't see him, because he is busy making new friends (all nationalities and ages). Frankly when you are after a job, this is a myth. He went to ship broking event, where top ship brokers were meant to be. He was literally chasing after someone from a well known firm. This guy got in the lift and my son put his foot in the door so he could get in with the ship broker. By the time he had finished talking to him, he got some good advice. If he got an ICS exam pass, this would be a game changer for him. The ship broker thought he was a very good candidate, knew a lot about ships and his German may come in handy. My son kept on trying to find out about vacancies, but the personnel manager left, so nobody knew what was going on. This became a very depressing pattern. The HR manager is pregnant, one of the partners died so we have to train a new one, I am very busy at work (a common one), and so the list of excuses went on. He was put on a mailing list for Clarksons, but nothing has ever really come up.

A lot of this is due to the global turndown in all markets, plus the pandemic. Singapore did well in the pandemic and they are still hiring regularly. Therefore, if you are Singaporean, go for it! A lot of the training programmes at the big companies either stopped, or went overseas (to Denmark, or Holland, for instance). If you look on linked-in, or Indeed, there are barely any trainee posts, and they are all quite niche (must be fluent in Mandarin, in one Clarksons ad). On the other hand, if you have 3 years or more experience, and a black book full of contacts, they are desperately advertising and advertising, often to no avail.

My son went to a few interviews, however there were always people who had already had the experience at the job (he went for an analyst job). There were 70 applicants and they were very impressed, but two of the applicants had already had ship broking analyst experience. Otherwise they said he would have clinched that job. They said he was more suited to becoming a broker, and they had no vacancies.

He was once in a second (final) interview for a job in Germany. The boss (who was a tough cookie) said the job (chartering) was so tough that one colleague ran out of the room crying.

Reply 6

One of my son's many contacts left ship broking to set up his own recruitment agency. He said he was writing a book about getting into ship broking. It is not on the book shelves and is very thin. This is the shocking reason.

The author said that one thing you needed to get into ship broking is: nepotism. He added smugly that because his father worked in the shipping industry, he was able to secure a prestigious internship at a brokers, which turned into a career. As he had evidently never struggled to get into ship broking, the rest of the book was filled will rather sparse, useless information, such as "if you get an interview, wear a suit".

I am afraid this experience is far from uncommon. My son went for a ship broking interview in Germany. They told him they were about to offer him the job, but he lost it at the last minute when the CEOs granddaughter decided she wanted the post. How can you compete about that?

At some interviews, he was not asked at all about his love for, and knowledge of ships and ship broking. In fact, one interviewer laughed at his "low mark" - when he was only one of the two people in the world to pass!! It was then assumed that after the pandemic he would go back to booking cruises. He had lost before he had even started.

I read an article by a very well respected, elder statesman ship broker. He said he never hired anyone who had not worked on ships, or whose parents didn't have a yacht or have their own shipping company. I was incensed with this, but he makes a very important (though unfair) point. You also need a lot of luck. For example a ship broker we know did an internship and then worked in a bank and a top shipbroker walked into his bank.

Trying to get into the world of ship broking is frustrating. It's like trying to break into modelling when your mother isn't Kate Moss, or acting if your father is not Bruce Paltrow.

Reply 7

After a debilitating two years of friendly networking and polite refusals (many interviewers liked him, but were just dipping their toes in the water to see how many people applied). When he fearfully tried to chase employers up (they often don't reply after interview), they said they were "still kicking the can down the road". The market is absolutely dreadful, so the vast majority of ship brokers are not advertising for jobs. If you look in the ICS magazine, where there are normally loads of jobs, there is either one (for someone with experience) or none.

In the end, I advised my son to apply for much lesser known companies outside London. He researched each company and sent off, not only his CV, but reasons why he liked the company. Four companies replied. They all said they get loads of CVs but nobody cared enough to write such a lovely covering letter. One of the firms was so keen to hire him after interview, they wanted him the following month. However instead they decided to wait until they had bedded in a new ship broker right at the top. After months of asking tentatively for updates, they just stopped replying. Another company was keen to hire him but needed to go to the board of directors. The directors decided not to, as they wanted to move the company to Rotterdam.

See how frustrating this is getting?

Reply 8

One of the four replies was from a gentleman who said he wanted someone to do a project for him. Whoever did this well would be in poll position to get a permanent job. My son did this project in his spare time (luckily, his job had irregular hours). He did absolutely brilliantly, so now he is a full time sales and purchase trainee ship broker and has given up his former job.

Believe me, sale and purchase is nearly as frustrating as trying to chase after a job. In fact, chasing after a ship broking job is an excellent preparation for being a sale and purchase ship broker!

Because of the pandemic and now the war in the Ukraine, the world is in a economic downturn. This limits sale and purchase opportunities. There are the same gatekeepers as the ones at the ship brokers. They really like your ships, but then the proposal is turned down by the board. Some sellers do not have data ready, so the buyers purchase from other sellers. Sellers may try to stubbornly stick to their price, whereas the purchasers, who are few and far between, want ships "as cheap as chips", some laughably so.

However, my son is making steady progress, and there are several inspections ongoing. One customer, although his board turned down the business, said he had "really enjoyed talking to him" and that is precisely the image any ship broker should be cultivating. Yes, he has had some small successes, and he is getting into the swing of things. He is speaking to customers all over the world, which he finds really interesting and learning a lot about shipping which he would not know otherwise. As for earnings, he is still a trainee but he will get anything from 1-2% of the ship's value as commission. Because of the pandemic and the global nature of the business (plus the smallness of the ships) he doesn't travel. In fact, he works from home. His job is to look at the global market and try to find what type of ship the client is looking for. The client may refine what they need and then my son needs to search again. It is satisfying when he can get what the client wants. He has a list (or website) with everything that is for sale, all over Europe! One of his ships may end up in the Cook Islands (now in Ireland) to help their infrastructure. However logistics can prove a problem. One buyer from Jamaica wanted a small ship to be sent over to him. In the end it cost more to get to Jamaica than the price of the ship.

This is why the top London firms give big commission (imagine getting 1-2% of the value of a big ass container ship!) My son is selling small boats like tugs, expedition boats, multi cats etc. He once met a fellow Oxford graduate, who is now an ICS lecturer and big time ship broker. He told my son he started out selling tugs too. My son needs to build his experience as a successful seller and a personable ship broker, then he can either stay where he is (and he is really happy) or take his skills down to London.

I have told him that in a few years' time, and with experience and hindsight, maybe he can write the definitive How to Become a Ship Broker book, for those without a silver spoon in their mouths.

Institute of chartered ship brokers

https://www.ics.org.uk/exams-

London branch of ICS

https://www.ics.org.uk/about-us/international-network/branches/london-branch

@MontyJR
@harrysbar
(edited 3 years ago)

Reply 9

Original post by MontyJR
Thank you !

Firstly, is he enjoying his role ? What’s his responsibilities, lifestyle(hours)? Does he travel a lot ?

Secondly, I’m currently doing business, however looking to do Shipping and logistics for a masters, would you say you need to be good at maths for this role? Just because I slightly lack.

Lastly, is there room for progression ? What’s the compensation like, for ship brokers? (Just in general)

Sorry for the list !

Looking forward to hearing back :smile:

You do not have to be good at maths. He does not work long hours but will check his laptop even on days off and bank holidays to see if there are any developments

It is mostly about being keen and persistent, persuasive and personable even if clients are picky or rude, or obstinate on price.

It’s also about knowing a lot about ships and their attributes. You will get to know about things like bollard pull and negotiation. You don’t get to learn this kind of stuff at the ics.

It is interesting that you are doing logistics as part of your masters degree. If you cannot get straight into ship booking, you could try freight forwarding or ship agent. Being lower paid, these fields are much easier to get into and will impress ship broking hr departments and maybe get you an interview.

You make it seem glamorous, but it is not at the moment, particularly in this market. It is just like any sales job, eg selling a car or house.
(edited 3 years ago)

Reply 10

Original post by Oxford Mum
You do not have to be good at maths. He does not work long hours but will check his laptop even on days off and bank holidays to see if there are any developments

It is mostly about being keen and persistent, persuasive and personable even if clients are picky or rude, or obstinate on price.

It’s also about knowing a lot about ships and their attributes. You will get to know about things like bollard pull and negotiation. You don’t get to learn this kind of stuff at the ics.

It is interesting that you are doing logistics as part of your masters degree. If you cannot get straight into ship booking, you could try freight forwarding or ship agent. Being lower paid, these fields are much easier to get into and will impress ship broking hr departments and maybe get you an interview.

You make it seem glamorous, but it is not at the moment, particularly in this market. It is just like any sales job, eg selling a car or house.

Wow ! I wasn’t expecting this reply ! Thank you ! Please bear with me, I’m currently working/studying, I’m going to read through properly ! Thanks again :smile:

Reply 11

Hi, my father is managing director/partner for a bunker trading and physical supply company called Propeller Fuels. They’re based in Hull with an office in Greece as well and they are continuing to expand worldwide. If you want I could give you an email address as a contact if you want more information about bunker trading as a career. I hope this helps.

Reply 12

Original post by Etommo1817
Hi, my father is managing director/partner for a bunker trading and physical supply company called Propeller Fuels. They’re based in Hull with an office in Greece as well and they are continuing to expand worldwide. If you want I could give you an email address as a contact if you want more information about bunker trading as a career. I hope this helps.

That’s interesting! Almost tempted to ask for his email address as well, lol

Reply 13

Original post by Etommo1817
Hi, my father is managing director/partner for a bunker trading and physical supply company called Propeller Fuels. They’re based in Hull with an office in Greece as well and they are continuing to expand worldwide. If you want I could give you an email address as a contact if you want more information about bunker trading as a career. I hope this helps.


Thanks for the reply ! That would be great ! Sounds interesting:smile:

Reply 14

Original post by MontyJR
Thanks for the reply ! That would be great ! Sounds interesting:smile:


I’ll PM you an email address

Reply 15

Original post by Etommo1817
I’ll PM you an email address

It’s so nice to see people networking on TSR. Often in a competitive market like ship broking, it can make the difference between getting a job or not. Besides, by the time op has graduated with his masters, the market will have picked up. It tends to go in peaks and troughs.

Reply 16

As if by magic, a bunker trader vacancy has appeared. This advert will show you a little bit about what the job entails and the qualities a successful candidate will need. Braemar is a renowned and highly respected ship brokers.

An opportunity has developed for a Trainee Shipbroker to join Braemar ACM Shipbroking at our London office.

Specialised Tanker Shipbrokers negotiate freight and terms between chemical and speciality product tanker owners, industrial producers, and traders in fast paced and constantly changing markets within a stimulating and often pressured environment.

The successful candidate will have the opportunity to train within an established team where they will gain insight into all aspects of shipbroking. You should be willing to learn, work from the ground up, with long hours including entertaining and travel. You can expect an exciting and rewarding international career.

Initial Responsibilities
Learning on the job and beginning to make introductions to clients.
Collating vessel position lists and market information.
Administrative support to the team.
Cooperating with the operations and claims departments.
Whilst gaining vital knowledge, you will be required to analyse the data that we collect which will provide insight into the market dynamics, various shipped product demand, supply, price, and volumes.

Key Responsibilities
Build relationships, and collaboration with Ship Owners; develop an understanding of individual owners’ strategies, skill sets and suitability.
Build and maintain a strong working relationship with our Charterers and proactively seek new prospective clients.
Identify, appraise, and communicate shipping needs to Owners.
Evaluate and present options provided by ships competing for business.
Preparing, facilitating, evaluating, and negotiating to close deals efficiently and at best possible terms.
Work closely with our desks in Houston, Dubai, and Singapore as a seamless global team.
Gain understanding of charterparty and contract T&Cs and legalities and the associated responsibilities and liabilities of Owners and Charterers.
Build technical insight into the mechanics of shipping complex and sometimes dangerous products in unpredictable seas, tides, weather conditions, and physical restrictions
Gain intimate commercial and technical insight and innovation within shipping.
Bridge conflicts and problem solving act as mediator and buffer.

Key Competencies
Strong and persuasive communication and engagement skills to build rapport and trust within a global network of contacts.
Excellent sales and negotiating skills with a strong ability to influence people of all levels.
A pro-active and tenacious self-starter, maintaining collaboration with global teams.
You will be focused with good attention to detail and accuracy and a careful listener.
Competitive and motivated.
Demonstrate creative ideas and initiative.
Good with numbers and English - decisive, conveying your message clearly, both written and verbal.
Adaptable to work with different cultures, personalities, time zones, and products.
Availability out of office hours shipping is a 24/7 business.

Qualifications
A degree or diploma is desirable, but not essential, however must demonstrate an interest in shipping, broking, or trade.
Previous work experience (not necessarily related to shipbroking).
Proficiency in Microsoft Office especially Excel, and PowerPoint.
Additional languages could be an advantage.

To apply please send your CV to the email address provided

@MontyJR

Reply 17

Original post by Oxford Mum
As if by magic, a bunker trader vacancy has appeared. This advert will show you a little bit about what the job entails and the qualities a successful candidate will need. Braemar is a renowned and highly respected ship brokers.

An opportunity has developed for a Trainee Shipbroker to join Braemar ACM Shipbroking at our London office.

Specialised Tanker Shipbrokers negotiate freight and terms between chemical and speciality product tanker owners, industrial producers, and traders in fast paced and constantly changing markets within a stimulating and often pressured environment.

The successful candidate will have the opportunity to train within an established team where they will gain insight into all aspects of shipbroking. You should be willing to learn, work from the ground up, with long hours including entertaining and travel. You can expect an exciting and rewarding international career.

Initial Responsibilities
Learning on the job and beginning to make introductions to clients.
Collating vessel position lists and market information.
Administrative support to the team.
Cooperating with the operations and claims departments.
Whilst gaining vital knowledge, you will be required to analyse the data that we collect which will provide insight into the market dynamics, various shipped product demand, supply, price, and volumes.

Key Responsibilities
Build relationships, and collaboration with Ship Owners; develop an understanding of individual owners’ strategies, skill sets and suitability.
Build and maintain a strong working relationship with our Charterers and proactively seek new prospective clients.
Identify, appraise, and communicate shipping needs to Owners.
Evaluate and present options provided by ships competing for business.
Preparing, facilitating, evaluating, and negotiating to close deals efficiently and at best possible terms.
Work closely with our desks in Houston, Dubai, and Singapore as a seamless global team.
Gain understanding of charterparty and contract T&Cs and legalities and the associated responsibilities and liabilities of Owners and Charterers.
Build technical insight into the mechanics of shipping complex and sometimes dangerous products in unpredictable seas, tides, weather conditions, and physical restrictions
Gain intimate commercial and technical insight and innovation within shipping.
Bridge conflicts and problem solving act as mediator and buffer.

Key Competencies
Strong and persuasive communication and engagement skills to build rapport and trust within a global network of contacts.
Excellent sales and negotiating skills with a strong ability to influence people of all levels.
A pro-active and tenacious self-starter, maintaining collaboration with global teams.
You will be focused with good attention to detail and accuracy and a careful listener.
Competitive and motivated.
Demonstrate creative ideas and initiative.
Good with numbers and English - decisive, conveying your message clearly, both written and verbal.
Adaptable to work with different cultures, personalities, time zones, and products.
Availability out of office hours shipping is a 24/7 business.

Qualifications
A degree or diploma is desirable, but not essential, however must demonstrate an interest in shipping, broking, or trade.
Previous work experience (not necessarily related to shipbroking).
Proficiency in Microsoft Office especially Excel, and PowerPoint.
Additional languages could be an advantage.

To apply please send your CV to the email address provided

@MontyJR

Thank you so much for updating ! It really means a lot ! It looks very interesting, however I’m quite hesitant about “good with numbers” 🧐 Otherwise this would be great !

Reply 18

Original post by MontyJR
Thank you so much for updating ! It really means a lot ! It looks very interesting, however I’m quite hesitant about “good with numbers” 🧐 Otherwise this would be great !


You should try it!

My son said he is not keen about "moving oil from one place to another". It seems quite fast paced and stressful, whereas he finds sale and purchase a whole lot of fun!

Reply 19

Original post by Oxford Mum
You should try it!

My son said he is not keen about "moving oil from one place to another". It seems quite fast paced and stressful, whereas he finds sale and purchase a whole lot of fun!

Thank you ! I hope its nothing too advanced. Seems to be different roles in shop brokering ?

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