antidepressants and mood stabilisers ruin your looks and make you age faster?

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Ciel.
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#1
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#1
i just came across this article
https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0203110511.htm

"During the study, Dr. Guyuron and his colleagues obtained comprehensive questionnaires and digital images from 186 pairs of identical twins. The images were reviewed by an independent panel, which then recorded the perceived age difference between the siblings."

"Antidepressant use was associated with a significantly older appearance and researchers also found that weight played a major factor too. In those sets of twins who were less than 40 years old, the heavier twin was perceived as being older, while in those groups over 40 years old, the heavier twin appeared younger."

how is this possible? why would the medication cause something like that? is there anywhere i can read the full report and see the pictures it mentions?
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artful_lounger
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#2
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#2
The lead author works in cosmetic facial surgery for "rejuvenation" so I think that would count as a potential conflict of interest so is probably worth bearing in mind...

In any case it's purely qualitative research, based on a pretty limited twin study. It also didn't just consider antidepressants and also considered divorce and weight, and it's unclear how they accounted for the the intersections of these (many antidepressants can cause weight gain, and people who go through a divorce may end up taking antidepressants...) so it's not clear they can reliably say any one of these factors alone is correlated with appearing older, much less imply any kind of causal relationship (it may just be that people who appear older are more likely to get divorced, need antidepressants, or gain weight, for entirely separate factors...).

I'm skeptical, personally.
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Ciel.
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#3
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#3
(Original post by artful_lounger)
The lead author works in cosmetic facial surgery for "rejuvenation" so I think that would count as a potential conflict of interest so is probably worth bearing in mind...

In any case it's purely qualitative research, based on a pretty limited twin study. It also didn't just consider antidepressants and also considered divorce and weight, and it's unclear how they accounted for the the intersections of these (many antidepressants can cause weight gain, and people who go through a divorce may end up taking antidepressants...) so it's not clear they can reliably say any one of these factors alone is correlated with appearing older, much less imply any kind of causal relationship (it may just be that people who appear older are more likely to get divorced, need antidepressants, or gain weight, for entirely separate factors...).

I'm skeptical, personally.
i don't know... when you think about it, it kinda makes sense that anything affecting your muscles/causing your muscles to relax more could end up causing muscle atrophy/sagging, right? the more i google it, the more posts i come across from people claiming that they looks have been affected by this. it's a terrifying idea
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micholate9
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#4
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Or it could be depression itself making them look older? It affects your ability to look after yourself, eat well, exercise, personal grooming etc.
Last edited by micholate9; 1 month ago
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Ciel.
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#5
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#5
(Original post by micholate9)
Or it could be depression itself making them look older? It affects your ability to look after yourself, eat well, exercise, resonant grooming etc.
not sure. is it possible to access that article from my post in full somehow, and see the pictures?
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artful_lounger
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#6
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(Original post by Ciel.)
i don't know... when you think about it, it kinda makes sense that anything affecting your muscles/causing your muscles to relax more could end up causing muscle atrophy/sagging, right? the more i google it, the more posts i come across from people claiming that they looks have been affected by this. it's a terrifying idea
Anti-depressants don't affect your muscles and are not muscle relaxants.

In any case, the same biological processes which affect neurotransmitter generation/uptake which cause depression may also cause increased appearance of ageing.

Also if you look for anything you'll find it...if I looked for the moon landing being faked I'd find a lot of people claiming it was. I don't believe it just because of that fact...
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Ciel.
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#7
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#7
(Original post by artful_lounger)
Anti-depressants don't affect your muscles and are not muscle relaxants.

In any case, the same biological processes which affect neurotransmitter generation/uptake which cause depression may also cause increased appearance of ageing.

Also if you look for anything you'll find it...if I looked for the moon landing being faked I'd find a lot of people claiming it was. I don't believe it just because of that fact...
what about benzos then? can they do that? ive been on them for ages but i haven't noticed anything? not yet anyway.

also
"Antidepressants played a role as well. Twins who were on prescription antidepressants were perceived as significantly older, possibly due to the consistent relaxation of facial muscles that occurs with antidepressant usage. This relaxation can lead to facial sagging, creating an older appearance."

so is this a lie? could a doctor openly lie about something like that?

i also found this article https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19337100/ but i don't think it's complete, it doesn't mention anything about the antidepressants but it's supposed to be the one they are referring to?
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artful_lounger
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#8
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#8
(Original post by Ciel.)
what about benzos then? can they do that? ive been on them for ages but i haven't noticed anything? not yet anyway.

also
"Antidepressants played a role as well. Twins who were on prescription antidepressants were perceived as significantly older, possibly due to the consistent relaxation of facial muscles that occurs with antidepressant usage. This relaxation can lead to facial sagging, creating an older appearance."

so is this a lie? could a doctor openly lie about something like that?

i also found this article https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19337100/ but i don't think it's complete, it doesn't mention anything about the antidepressants but it's supposed to be the one they are referring to?
Never heard of that about antidepressants. Where was the quote from - was it actually from a doctor? No idea about the benzodiazepines as I've never taken them. Ask your prescribing physician about it.

That does look like the paper being referenced and seems to have nothing to say or do with antidepressants (and all the causes of facial ageing listed are pretty well known, I think) so I think the original article may have had an agenda to push and was inserting information conjured from nowhere...

Note also the original article and the paper are from 2009. In scientific fields this means it's no longer current or relevant, by quite a margin - anything over 5 years or so quickly becomes irrelevant in academic STEM fields.
Last edited by artful_lounger; 1 month ago
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SagaciousSag
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#9
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#9
(Original post by Ciel.)
what about benzos then? can they do that? ive been on them for ages but i haven't noticed anything? not yet anyway.

also
"Antidepressants played a role as well. Twins who were on prescription antidepressants were perceived as significantly older, possibly due to the consistent relaxation of facial muscles that occurs with antidepressant usage. This relaxation can lead to facial sagging, creating an older appearance."

so is this a lie? could a doctor openly lie about something like that?

i also found this article https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19337100/ but i don't think it's complete, it doesn't mention anything about the antidepressants but it's supposed to be the one they are referring to?
If you haven't noticed any side effects like that in yourself and you notice more benefits, then I think it's better to continue for the time being. I agree that there are several potential causes of facial ageing. If you want to protect your skin, vitamin C helps to produce collagen, and antioxidants (vitamins A, C and E) keep everything healthy.
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Ciel.
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#10
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#10
(Original post by artful_lounger)
Never heard of that about antidepressants. Where was the quote from - was it actually from a doctor? No idea about the benzodiazepines as I've never taken them. Ask your prescribing physician about it.

That does look like the paper being referenced and seems to have nothing to say or do with antidepressants (and all the causes of facial ageing listed are pretty well known, I think) so I think the original article may have had an agenda to push and was inserting information conjured from nowhere...

Note also the original article and the paper are from 2009. In scientific fields this means it's no longer current or relevant, by quite a margin - anything over 5 years or so quickly becomes irrelevant in academic STEM fields.
https://www.reflectionscenter.com/is...ing-your-face/ written by Mitchell Chasin, MD

and yeah i'm confused about that paper as well. maybe it's not a full version of it. i'm trying to find like the full version but no luck so far. also, when i google it a lot of people are talking about their experiencing with psych meds ruining their looks and youth and even turning muscle mass into fat so there must be something in it... why would they all lie...
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Ciel.
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#11
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#11
(Original post by SagaciousSag)
If you haven't noticed any side effects like that in yourself and you notice more benefits, then I think it's better to continue for the time being. I agree that there are several potential causes of facial ageing. If you want to protect your skin, vitamin C helps to produce collagen, and antioxidants (vitamins A, C and E) keep everything healthy.
i'm kinda scared to continue taking them now because of how obsessive i am about my looks tbh
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artful_lounger
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#12
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(Original post by Ciel.)
https://www.reflectionscenter.com/is...ing-your-face/ written by Mitchell Chasin, MD

and yeah i'm confused about that paper as well. maybe it's not a full version of it. i'm trying to find like the full version but no luck so far. also, when i google it a lot of people are talking about their experiencing with psych meds ruining their looks and youth and even turning muscle mass into fat so there must be something in it... why would they all lie...
To be fair bear in mind that the infamous article linking vaccinations to autism, long since debunked scientifically and found to be riddled with methodological flaws, falsified data, and that the author had direct links to manufacturers of certain types of medical instrumentation that benefited from subsequent legislation around vaccinations to use those particular kinds of instruments to avoid the purported issue, was in fact a doctor. Right up until he was struck off by the GMC. So yes, doctors can and do lie...including for their own benefit.

Once again, if you look for something you will find it. You might be better off looking to see what evidence there is against that proposition and compare it to the sources and quality of evidence for it. If the same sources told you that antidepressants made you eternally youthful would you believe it? Or are you just looking for a justification for your pre-existing disregard for medical treatment for psychiatric disorders? As above, if the latter you can and will find it. It doesn't mean it's true.
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Ciel.
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#13
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#13
(Original post by artful_lounger)
To be fair bear in mind that the infamous article linking vaccinations to autism, long since debunked scientifically and found to be riddled with methodological flaws, falsified data, and that the author had direct links to manufacturers of certain types of medical instrumentation that benefited from subsequent legislation around vaccinations to use those particular kinds of instruments to avoid the purported issue, was in fact a doctor. Right up until he was struck off by the GMC. So yes, doctors can and do lie...including for their own benefit.

Once again, if you look for something you will find it. You might be better off looking to see what evidence there is against that proposition and compare it to the sources and quality of evidence for it. If the same sources told you that antidepressants made you eternally youthful would you believe it? Or are you just looking for a justification for your pre-existing disregard for medical treatment for psychiatric disorders? As above, if the latter you can and will find it. It doesn't mean it's true.
yeah i know what you mean but i don't see how would the doctor benefit from that particular article. what would it achieve? i mean your skin either looks youthful or it doesn't, it's not something an article can change

i'm actually trying to find if there's any evidence at all against it but no luck so far tbh

i'm not looking for any justification... i just don't want to sacrifice my looks for the sake of improving my mental health, if that's even possible anyway
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artful_lounger
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#14
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#14
(Original post by Ciel.)
yeah i know what you mean but i don't see how would the doctor benefit from that particular article. what would it achieve? i mean your skin either looks youthful or it doesn't, it's not something an article can change

i'm actually trying to find if there's any evidence at all against it but no luck so far tbh

i'm not looking for any justification... i just don't want to sacrifice my looks for the sake of improving my mental health, if that's even possible anyway
Both the doctors in question literally make their living off of performing cosmetic surgery for "rejuvenation" of peoples faces. They materially benefit from people thinking they look old because they got divorced/fat/are on antidepressants.
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Ciel.
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#15
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#15
(Original post by artful_lounger)
Both the doctors in question literally make their living off of performing cosmetic surgery for "rejuvenation" of peoples faces. They materially benefit from people thinking they look old because they got divorced/fat/are on antidepressants.
but don't articles in medical journal need to be peer reviewed and stuff?
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artful_lounger
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#16
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(Original post by Ciel.)
but don't articles in medical journal need to be peer reviewed and stuff?
Depends on which journal...not all are peer reviewed. There are also lots of vanity presses that you just pay to publish your stuff regardless, and predatory journals that publish poor quality research in allegedly peer reviewed journals where the peer review process is not properly followed and so just about anything can be published. Also some are just...not very good and will publish almost anything just so they have something to publish, because they are very new/niche/not well known/reputable and "good" papers don't get sent to them as they go to more established journals.

Equally, just because something is published doesn't mean it's objectively true - plenty of small scale studies get published but then can't be replicated, or meta-analyses reveal that the findings of a single study were in fact anomalous and the results were an outlier and are not representative of how things would work in reality. More reputable journals/authors will issue a retraction; others won't.
Last edited by artful_lounger; 1 month ago
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Ciel.
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#17
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(Original post by artful_lounger)
Depends on which journal...not all are peer reviewed. There are also lots of vanity presses that you just pay to publish your stuff regardless, and predatory journals that publish poor quality research in allegedly peer reviewed journals where the peer review process is not properly followed and so just about anything can be published. Also some are just...not very good and will publish almost anything just so they have something to publish, because they are very new/niche/not well known/reputable and "good" papers don't get sent to them as they go to more established journals.

Equally, just because something is published doesn't mean it's objectively true - plenty of small scale studies get published but then can't be replicated, or meta-analyses reveal that the findings of a single study were in fact anomalous and the results were an outlier and are not representative of how things would work in reality. More reputable journals/authors will issue a retraction; others won't.
i see. damn that confusing. feels like there's nothing and no one you can trust anymore
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artful_lounger
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#18
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#18
(Original post by Ciel.)
i see. damn that confusing. feels like there's nothing and no one you can trust anymore
Well learning to evaluate journal articles and so on is a skill, it takes time to develop. Part of the process of getting a degree (or several!) involves learning to do literature reviews and viewing things with a critical eye - especially if the material seems quite "sensational". Good science (and indeed, most academic work) is usually...boring. Not sensational or even often interesting to those outside of the field, at least at first (in fact frequently it may not even be interesting to those in the field ). It's usually only later that it becomes something of more relevance for others in academia, much less the wider public, as the importance of the result(s) are recognised and applications developed etc.
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Ciel.
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#19
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#19
(Original post by artful_lounger)
Well learning to evaluate journal articles and so on is a skill, it takes time to develop. Part of the process of getting a degree (or several!) involves learning to do literature reviews and viewing things with a critical eye - especially if the material seems quite "sensational". Good science (and indeed, most academic work) is usually...boring. Not sensational or even often interesting to those outside of the field, at least at first (in fact frequently it may not even be interesting to those in the field ). It's usually only later that it becomes something of more relevance for others in academia, much less the wider public, as the importance of the result(s) are recognised and applications developed etc.
i do have a degree but i've only ever read legal journals (pure torture, lol). i'm pretty bad at science tho.
thanks for explaining it all, i feel a little more at ease now
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CoolCavy
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#20
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I mean I'm on both (hopefully will come off them some time this year) and every week I get asked by the bus driver if I want a child ticket.

People are shocked when I say I have a full time job as they assume I'm in school - I'm 23

So I would say for me personally this article is a load of *******s
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