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    When is the tit hall june event?
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    I just spent several minutes scouring one of my aesthetics anthologies for the article I need and getting annoyed when I couldn't find it. I was looking in the wrong damn book.
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    At least you know it's the wrong book. I'm trying to find out the exact ages when various cognitive and non cognitive abilities are developed, but neuroscience textbooks don't lend themselves to complete beginners, and none have answered my question yet
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    Well yeah, I knew what book it was in to start with, I just picked up the wrong one, because I'm an idiot.
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    I don't think I understand the whole Gaza situation enough to protest about it. Plus it's impossible to find an impartial commentary on what's happening/what has happened.
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    (Original post by Catsmeat)
    In re-reading this thread, I find it peculiar that so many students at Cambridge seem to abhor the concept of protest simply because it seems to disrupt their passage through a town centre; protest is not entirely about affecting change, but in showing solidarity with a cause. Whilst I agree that protest can be self-consciously aggrandizing or crude, that is no excuse to simply disregard it based on some equally self-aggrandizing attempt to appear "apathetic". If it takes the disruption of a few self-concerning shoppers to raise awareness, then so be it.
    Awareness-raising? How does having raised awareness actually help? And what proportion of our population doesn't already know about Israel's latest tantrum but would listen to a protester long enough to find out? The numbers have got to be vanishingly small.


    And re: right to exercise democracy and protest: Apagg's kinda nailed the main point, which is that the British public have no democratic control over, influence on, or even link to Israel at all. Protesting against Israel's actions has nothing to do with our democratic rights, save in the generic protest sense of exercising the right to public congregation/free speech. Protesting against our Government's policies (i.e. direct and tacit support for Israel's actions) might make some sense, but the protesters seem to have rather missed the point in their rush to make placards. edit: I refer to the protesters in Plymouth on Friday. Maybe the ones in Cambridge and London had more of a clue, idk. And for the record, a huge crowd of shouting people waving lumps of wood around is intimidating, even if they don't intend to be. Try to imagine a granny pushing through the crowd on the pavement, and you realise that they're effectively using threatening behaviour to take over public space.
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    (Original post by Llamaaa)
    I don't think I understand the whole Gaza situation enough to protest about it. Plus it's impossible to find an impartial commentary on what's happening/what has happened.
    :ditto:

    I find that the problem with demonstrations, is they are always very partial on this situation. As in, Israel is behaving inhumanely towards Palestinians and should stop, but Hamas is also putting civilians in the line of fire to make things worse.

    I don't want to demonstrate because I can't help feeling i would be supporting hamas, which is not something i want to do. If there was a demonstration for peace, or in favour of a valid two state solution, however, i would happily demonstrate.

    About what Craghy said, I think that demonstrations are not necessarily a solution. Coming from France, where demonstrations occur daily, they do not get to the point. A demonstration is about slogans that strike people, and not about formulating a valid argument. It's a lot easier to say "Hamas = butchers", or "Israel = mass murderers" then actually develop a structured argumentation about it.

    I think this is the case with protests in the Israeli palestinian conflicts. It would be much better to focus on a campaign explaining impartially, including the roots of the conflict; what is happening, trying to provide a valid solution for the future, so that people can make their own minds, rather than shouting demagocical (hum does that word exist in english :ninja) slogans, where people believe what they see on tv and cannot actually justify what they are shouting for.
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    Unfortunately, gluups, there really *is* no such thing as an impartial explanation. God-like (literally) omniscience and a complete lack of any socially-instilled values would be required.
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    (Original post by Craghyrax)
    Anyway I'm annoyed how everyone gets irritated and complains when its a political demonstration, but nobody cares about the noise and the crowds when its some tacky commercial thing instead! I suppose the commercial thing doesn't remind them of stuff they don't like thinking about.
    To be fair, Cambridge at the weekend is enough of a nightmare for me to grumble heartily about anything that stands in my way :o: I've been in town for hours and accomplished nothing bar buying lots of books.

    On the subject of protests I think that they can provide an immense show of solidarity, especially if they are spread throughout the kingdom. I think that if they are violent or aggressive to passers by than that is unacceptable, but I do not think that is by any means universal. They seemed to have disbanded by the time I got there. So yeah, protests a good thing unless they get out of hand.

    Is anyone going to the bells and light show at the senate house this evening? I'm thinking of popping down to see what the fuss is about.
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    (Original post by Tom)
    Awareness-raising? How does having raised awareness actually help? And what proportion of our population doesn't already know about Israel's latest tantrum but would listen to a protester long enough to find out? The numbers have got to be vanishingly small.
    How can it not? Again, as I have emphasised continually, the show of solidarity, and of networking, at demonstrations is as important a factor as raising awareness. You are simply evading this aspect. In lieu of people being able to militate direct change via diplomatic channels, the demonstration operates to (1) voice support/solidarity (2) and to demonstrate their unwillingness to allow such a situation to continue.


    (Original post by Tom)
    And re: right to exercise democracy and protest: Apagg's kinda nailed the main point, which is that the British public have no democratic control over, influence on, or even link to Israel at all. Protesting against Israel's actions has nothing to do with our democratic rights, save in the generic protest sense of exercising the right to public congregation/free speech. Protesting against our Government's policies (i.e. direct and tacit support for Israel's actions) might make some sense, but the protesters seem to have rather missed the point in their rush to make placards. edit: I refer to the protesters in Plymouth on Friday. Maybe the ones in Cambridge and London had more of a clue, idk. And for the record, a huge crowd of shouting people waving lumps of wood around is intimidating, even if they don't intend to be. Try to imagine a granny pushing through the crowd on the pavement, and you realise that they're effectively using threatening behaviour to take over public space.
    Yes, the "British public" do have a link to Israel; we live in a world system in which people, commodities and ideas flow between states; Britain is not in a mode of splendid isolationism; those shoppers carrying bags may well be purchasing Israeli/West Bank goods, they may have family members living in, or visiting, the region, they may have friends who live in that region, not to mention the fact that the Israeli territories were mediated by British diplomats in 1947, whilst British diplomats are still engaged in the process of talks concerning the dual-state. Our votes directly influence the structure of power in Parliament and thus the attitude that the state has towards this issue.

    I think you have unfairly caricatured a "granny", as you put it; I know a woman past her 70s who once struck a NF member with her shopping bag. Don't hide behind false and condescending morality.
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    (Original post by Tom)

    And re: right to exercise democracy and protest: Apagg's kinda nailed the main point, which is that the British public have no democratic control over, influence on, or even link to Israel at all. Protesting against Israel's actions has nothing to do with our democratic rights, save in the generic protest sense of exercising the right to public congregation/free speech. Protesting against our Government's policies (i.e. direct and tacit support for Israel's actions) might make some sense, but the protesters seem to have rather missed the point in their rush to make placards.
    This is nonsense. Protesters all over the country have made demands regarding the government's policy towards Israel. The fact that you have paid insufficient attention to this is your problem not the campaigners. Besides you could replace 'Israel' with 'apartheid South Africa' in your post and it would mirror the arguments seen 30 years ago. And then opposition from western campaigners certainly played a role in isolating the South Africans.

    And there were plenty of 'grannies' on the protest today and at all the others in the country.
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    (Original post by Tom)
    Unfortunately, gluups, there really *is* no such thing as an impartial explanation. God-like (literally) omniscience and a complete lack of any socially-instilled values would be required.
    thats true i guess, but people either view palestinians as victims and israelis as assassins, or the other way around. And its very difficult to find people who actually admit that there is some element of fault on both sides.

    ukebert, i am (well my dad is... told me he was coming to cambridge... not to see me ... but to hear the bells ... :shifty:)
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    Is the light show the same thing that's been on senate house for the past few nights?
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    (Original post by Catsmeat)
    How can it not? Again, as I have emphasised continually, the show of solidarity, and of networking, at demonstrations is as important a factor as raising awareness. You are simply evading this aspect. In lieu of people being able to militate direct change via diplomatic channels, the demonstration operates to (1) voice support/solidarity (2) and to demonstrate their unwillingness to allow such a situation to continue.
    "Voice solidarity" seems pretty nebulous to me - solidarity with whom? Other protesters? Preaching to the converted within one limited British group doesn't seem especially relevant to those in I/P. Or solidarity with those in I/P? The disconnect between their situation and that of the protesters seems far too great for that to have any real meaning.

    And "demonstrate their unwillingness to allow such a situation to continue"?! Come on. The situation isn't subject to them "allowing it to continue" or not - even the most head-in-clouds idealist will concede that, I think.




    Yes, the "British public" do have a link to Israel; we live in a world system in which people, commodities and ideas flow between states; Britain is not in a mode of splendid isolationism; those shoppers carrying bags may well be purchasing Israeli/West Bank goods, they may have family members living in, or visiting, the region, they may have friends who live in that region, not to mention the fact that the Israeli territories were mediated by British diplomats in 1947, whilst British diplomats are still engaged in the process of talks concerning the dual-state. Our votes directly influence the structure of power in Parliament and thus the attitude that the state has towards this issue.
    Yes, of course, the whole soft power / transformative power thing. Having written a couple of essays on it I ended up thinking that it's real enough but only over certain (longer-than-when-parties-are-already-in-a-war) timescales, and only up to a certain point at which a situation goes beyond the limit of soft power to substantially influence it. But that's just opinion...I'll concede it's not something I can argue as fact.

    I think you have unfairly caricatured a "granny", as you put it; I know a woman past her 70s who once struck a NF member with her shopping bag. Don't hide behind false and condescending morality.
    Yes, of course and obviously the 'granny' is a caricature >.< It's being used in lieu of me writing a paragraph giving a full description of a physically frail person not willing to push their way through a loud crowd/mob. The widely-recognised granny stereotype facilitates quick understanding of the hypothetical situation described, valuable when we're communicating slowly by text. Don't nitpick.

    You've remarkably little evidence upon which to accuse me of having false morality, and I've not spotted to whom I'm condescending either...certainly not the 'granny', since she's an imaginary construct to convey a point fast using stereotypes we understand, and afaik not to yourself either. Or did you just use that last sentence because it makes for a nicely-turned put-down, rather than aim to put any meaning into it?
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    (Original post by Llamaaa)
    Is the light show the same thing that's been on senate house for the past few nights?
    yeah i think so, but all the bells are ringing at the same time. they're ringing at harvard as well i think
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    (Original post by Eye)
    This is nonsense. Protesters all over the country have made demands regarding the government's policy towards Israel. The fact that you have paid insufficient attention to this is your problem not the campaigners. Besides you could replace 'Israel' with 'apartheid South Africa' in your post and it would mirror the arguments seen 30 years ago. And then opposition from western campaigners certainly played a role in isolating the South Africans.

    And there were plenty of 'grannies' on the protest today and at all the others in the country.
    We arguably had a great deal more power in the SA situation, to be honest, and the situation wasn't that analogous either
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    To my knowledge this is the first time that the light show has been put on, the other times being rehearsals I think.
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    (Original post by thegluups)
    yeah i think so, but all the bells are ringing at the same time. they're ringing at harvard as well i think
    they always have to muscle in on our celebrations, don't they? :rolleyes: :p:
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    oh is this at 7.15?? What's going on? Is there a point going somewhere to listen/watch?

    tell me what's happeninggg
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    (Original post by minimo)
    oh is this at 7.15?? What's going on? Is there a point going somewhere to listen/watch?

    tell me what's happeninggg
    http://www.800.cam.ac.uk/events/26/

 
 
 
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