Killing in the name of...

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da_nolo
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#1
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#1
(When) is it (morally) permisable to kill another human and why?

If you think it is never permisable, please share your thoughts.
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tazarooni89
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#2
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#2
In my opinion: self-defence, euthanasia and capital punishment.
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sufys
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#3
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#3
Self-defence and capital punishment. See post #4 for a more comprehensive list - though I am still including capital punishment in mine.
Last edited by sufys; 1 month ago
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londonmyst
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#4
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#4
Self-defence, national security, protect against significant threats to public safety/public order/large scale economic warfare from a hostile entity or group that could ruin the national economy, prevent criminal trespassers from forcing their presence/agents/equipment onto private residential & commercial property and to protect valuable items of property/classified info.
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da_nolo
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#5
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#5
(Original post by londonmyst)
Self-defence, national security, protect against significant threats to public safety/public order/large scale economic warfare from a hostile entity or group that could ruin the national economy, prevent criminal trespassers from forcing their presence/agents/equipment onto private residential & commercial property and to protect valuable items of property/classified info.
You say hostile entity. So could this be something other than a human?

To protecr valuable items of property. You are includinG property damage to reason to kill another?
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da_nolo
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#6
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#6
(Original post by sufys)
Self-defence and capital punishment. See post #4 for a more comprehensive list - though I am still including capital punishment in mine.
Why capital punishment? How should this be determined as punishment, as to whom will be killed as punishment?
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da_nolo
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#7
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#7
(Original post by tazarooni89)
In my opinion: self-defence, euthanasia and capital punishment.
Self defense is pretty common reason. Have you heard of a person or group that would deny self defense as a reason to kill?
.
I think a founder of aikido is sucha person (though he lived many years ago). May the concept of not killing another in self defense have the same meaning or be able to apply to one's life during diffent centuries?
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londonmyst
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#8
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(Original post by da_nolo)
You say hostile entity. So could this be something other than a human?

To protecr valuable items of property. You are includinG property damage to reason to kill another?
Potentially if in the future very physically & mentally capable non-human members of the animal kingdom were found to exist on earth and turned very hostile against the human race.

I believe in the right of a premises owner or lawful occupier of a domestic dwelling to use lethal force to defend their property from being attacked or seized by a third-party trespasser that forces entrance with blatantly hostile intentions or a long history of criminal habits.
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Djtoodles
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#9
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#9
(Original post by da_nolo)
(When) is it (morally) permisable to kill another human and why?

If you think it is never permisable, please share your thoughts.
Self-defence or defence of others - if someone it attempting to do me, my family or my friends harm then i dont have any qualms about killing them if im able to.

Protection of my stuff - similar to self defence except replace "me", "my family" and "my friends" with "my stuff", "my families stuff" and "my friends stuff". I personally would use sensible limits on this, for example if someone was making off with my garden gnome i wouldnt start blasting but at the same time i wouldnt think less of a person who did.

Euthanasia - if someone wants to die they should be allowed to, and if they need help someone should be allowed to. If they cant make that call its just a time to apply to some common sense.

Capital punishment - If for example you murder someone you shouldn’t be getting some weak sentence like 25 years in prison, because the punishment doesn’t fit the crime, there is a finality to murder that isn’t present is something like 25 years jail time, so imo, it should be death. Preferably with some considerable torture beforehand.
Last edited by Djtoodles; 1 month ago
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Mr Anderson1997
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#10
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#10
(Original post by tazarooni89)
In my opinion: self-defence, euthanasia and capital punishment.
Self-defence is the most obvious in my view.
I am not in support of capital punishment for many reasons.
Euthanasia in some cases. You probably remember that in another thread euthanasia was proposed for infants who are otherwise healthy but unwanted and undesirable. I am obviously against such ethics.
Going to war and have no alternative but kill or be killed.
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sufys
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#11
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#11
(Original post by Mr Anderson1997)
Self-defence is the most obvious in my view.
I am not in support of capital punishment for many reasons.
Euthanasia in some cases. You probably remember that in another thread euthanasia was proposed for infants who are otherwise healthy but unwanted and undesirable. I am obviously against such ethics.
Going to war and have no alternative but kill or be killed.
What are your reasons for not being in support of capital punishment?
I think war would fall under self-defence.
Last edited by sufys; 1 month ago
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tazarooni89
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#12
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#12
(Original post by Mr Anderson1997)
I am not in support of capital punishment for many reasons.
Euthanasia in some cases. You probably remember that in another thread euthanasia was proposed for infants who are otherwise healthy but unwanted and undesirable. I am obviously against such ethics.
In general I'm not in favour of either capital punishment or euthanasia, although I wouldn't rule them out entirely. I think a lot of usually-immoral things can be justified in extreme circumstances and dire situations.

With that said I'll add one more item to the list of when I think it is acceptable to kill another human: for the purposes of cannibalism if stranded in an environment with no food, and it's the only way to survive.
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Mr Anderson1997
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#13
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#13
(Original post by sufys)
What are your reasons for not being in support of capital punishment?
I think war would fall under self-defence.
I regard capital punishment as a very cruel and unethical practice as someone is condemned to die without even having the dignity to fight for their life even if at the end they may loose it. So cruelty and dignity are very important in my opinion.

Equally important is the distinction between manslaughter and murder or killing/manslaughter/ murder. Often convicted individuals have killed but not murdered.

Those who are against the death penalty in all cases will have to point out the possibility of a mistake where one has been convicted but they are innocent. This is a very strong position that is difficult to argue against. What if you kill an innocent person who hasn't committed the crime? Can you rule out the possibility of a mistake or that a set up by others in order to send someone innocent to their death.
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da_nolo
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#14
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#14
(Original post by tazarooni89)
In general I'm not in favour of either capital punishment or euthanasia, although I wouldn't rule them out entirely. I think a lot of usually-immoral things can be justified in extreme circumstances and dire situations.

With that said I'll add one more item to the list of when I think it is acceptable to kill another human: for the purposes of cannibalism if stranded in an environment with no food, and it's the only way to survive.
There are reports in china and maybe other countries that citizens were quarantined in buildings and neighborhoods for weeks. Residences reported running out of food but threatened by govt./police if they leave for a store. Would cannabalism be justified in this instance?
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da_nolo
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#15
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#15
(Original post by Djtoodles)
Self-defence or defence of others - if someone it attempting to do me, my family or my friends harm then i dont have any qualms about killing them if im able to.

Protection of my stuff - similar to self defence except replace "me", "my family" and "my friends" with "my stuff", "my families stuff" and "my friends stuff". I personally would use sensible limits on this, for example if someone was making off with my garden gnome i wouldnt start blasting but at the same time i wouldnt think less of a person who did.

Euthanasia - if someone wants to die they should be allowed to, and if they need help someone should be allowed to. If they cant make that call its just a time to apply to some common sense.

Capital punishment - If for example you murder someone you shouldn’t be getting some weak sentence like 25 years in prison, because the punishment doesn’t fit the crime, there is a finality to murder that isn’t present is something like 25 years jail time, so imo, it should be death. Preferably with some considerable torture beforehand.
Euthenasia in conversation usually applies to those who are ill, unable to recover, and will die within a given time period. Do you apply euthenasia to other circumstances or just to the usual condition?
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Djtoodles
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#16
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#16
(Original post by da_nolo)
Euthenasia in conversation usually applies to those who are ill, unable to recover, and will die within a given time period. Do you apply euthenasia to other circumstances or just to the usual condition?
To others as well. Not technically euthanasia in the strictest sense but if someone wants to end their life they should be allowed to and be fully supported in doing so. A person’s life is theirs and theirs alone, its why I’m against ideas like conscription because it takes that away from the individual. If someone wants to die, give them the support they need to make sure it’s really what they want and if they can’t be swayed then just make sure they have a more dignified end than being found after 2 weeks in an apartment block.
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tazarooni89
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#17
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#17
(Original post by da_nolo)
There are reports in china and maybe other countries that citizens were quarantined in buildings and neighborhoods for weeks. Residences reported running out of food but threatened by govt./police if they leave for a store. Would cannabalism be justified in this instance?
No I don't think so. I only think it would be justified if starvation to death was literally the only alternative. People can go hungry for a few weeks without dying. And a better option than killing other people and eating them would be to simply disobey the police, get some food, and pay the price later.
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da_nolo
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#18
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#18
(Original post by Djtoodles)
To others as well. Not technically euthanasia in the strictest sense but if someone wants to end their life they should be allowed to and be fully supported in doing so. A person’s life is theirs and theirs alone, its why I’m against ideas like conscription because it takes that away from the individual. If someone wants to die, give them the support they need to make sure it’s really what they want and if they can’t be swayed then just make sure they have a more dignified end than being found after 2 weeks in an apartment block.
What is conscription?

Suicidal thoughts are often symptons to mental illnesses like depression. Sometimes a person dies not because they want to but because they inflict self harm (which can increase in quantity and severity). If a person wants to die when they may ne diagnosed as mentally ill, should they be allowed to?
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da_nolo
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#19
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#19
(Original post by tazarooni89)
No I don't think so. I only think it would be justified if starvation to death was literally the only alternative. People can go hungry for a few weeks without dying. And a better option than killing other people and eating them would be to simply disobey the police, get some food, and pay the price later.
I'm not running with you during a zombie apocalypse.

So how do we know who is on the chopping block (to be eaten) ?

Ironically I think walking dead series has two examples of this where people are forced against their will, volunteer, or randomly selected via lottery.
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tazarooni89
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#20
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#20
(Original post by da_nolo)
So how do we know who is on the chopping block (to be eaten)
I don’t think there would be any rules on it as such. It would be an extremely dire circumstance and I doubt anyone would be spending mental effort weighing up the moral pros and cons. Survival instinct would kick in, and I’m just saying I don’t think we can blame people for doing whatever they need to in order to survive.
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