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    (Original post by Crazster)
    you knew what death meant at 13?
    As was mentioned earlier by someone else (Plato I think), none of us can truly comprehend death. It's not remotely 'stupid', whoever said that is an immature prick. Survival rates for females after 5 years after receiving a heart transplant is roughly 67%. Transplanted hearts don't last forever; in fact, after 10 years there's a relatively high risk of failure. She probably decided, after suffering for the past 8 years what no child should ever suffer, that the chances of rejection, then the side effects of the pretty toxic cocktail of anti-rejection drugs and finally, the relatively high chance of her transplanted heart failing were too much to go through. There comes a time when people need to make the decision whether to keep fighting, and frankly, I can only imagine that becomes exhausting, or whether to make the decision to enjoy the time she has left.
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    It took her 13 years to realise she lived in a crappy village! Well, it was inevitable she'd kill herself, either euthanasia or heroin.

    [/herefordshire jokes]
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    (Original post by Crazster)
    I never claimed to.
    Do I understand death better as I got older? Yes. Its called growing up - that is getting a better understanding and grasp on life.

    Believe it or not, when your feelings and emotions are still developing its a lot harder to comprehend well things that involve strong feelings and emotions.
    I don't think anyone is going to understand death until they die.
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    (Original post by punktopia)
    I don't think anyone is going to understand death until they die.
    I guess the world is black and white to some.
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    (Original post by Crazster)
    I guess the world is black and white to some.
    Or; some people are logical, others are not.
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    You can live with dignity, but you can't die with it.

    Personally, I think it's her life, she can do what she wants with it. But I think if dignity is all the reasoning she has, then it's not enough.
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    My mum would never let me make that decision and since I'd only be 13 not much I can do about it
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    (Original post by punktopia)
    Or; some people are logical, others are not.
    yes, so start being logical and stop thinking in black and white.
    g'night.
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    (Original post by Crazster)
    yes, so start being logical and stop thinking in black and white.
    g'night.
    It's like talking to a wall.
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    I'm going to point out a few things:

    "Hannah Jones with her mother Kirsty, an intensive care nurse" - her Mum being that and being around her Mum, she's probably got a better understanding than most people at 13.

    "Although the operation should prolong her life, it would only provide temporary respite."
    "However, doctors have warned her that a heart transplant is risky and that, even if it succeeded, the drugs used to prevent her body rejecting the new heart could prompt a recurrence of the leukaemia."

    So basically, while it could extend her life, it won't cure her and it could make her time left much worse.



    Now if any of you have seen someone close to you die a slow, horrible death, I'd guess you're the people who think she should be allowed to make this choice.


    It's what I'd choose now at 16 (almost 17), and it's what I'd have also chosen at 10. Your own experiences are what give you an ability to comprehend death, much more than age.
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    Good for her, i hope she rests in peace.
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    (Original post by punktopia)
    It's like talking to a wall.
    Crazster: We learn more of something the older we get, can comprehend it more the more mature we are
    Punk: No, its unknowable
    Crazster: World isn't black and white, use logic
    PunK; World is black and white
    Crazster: G'night
    Punk: Its like talking to a wall

    Go to your born again christians meeting.
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    (Original post by Crazster)
    Crazster: We learn more of something the older we get, can comprehend it more the more mature we are
    Punk: No, its unknowable
    Crazster: World isn't black and white, use logic
    PunK; World is black and white
    Crazster: G'night
    Punk: Its like talking to a wall

    Go to your born again christians meeting.
    More of something? It's DEATH. How can you know "more" of death, without actually dying? Come on, this really isn't hard to understand. As for calling me a Christian, well... just lol.
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    (Original post by punktopia)
    More of something? It's DEATH. How can you know "more" of death, without actually dying? Come on, this really isn't hard to understand. As for calling me a Christian, well... just lol.
    Just for starters, "more" of death?? More about death would be English. Or, you know, the words I actually used rather then paraphrasing to try and manipulate the statement to make a point. That you can comprehend it better. "more" in this sense is meaningless.

    You're absolutely right, you need to experience something before you can understand it more.
    There is absolutely nothing that can be understood better by thought and maturity.
    /sarcasm

    You remind me of Sarah Palin supporters, so sure in their belief, so black in white with the "evil" democrats.

    Also, lol at you taking the christian comment like that more lol at you not understand the subtext.

    P.S. Maybe you should consider the famous words "the more you know, the more you realize you don't" rather then being so absolutely sure about our theory =).

    P.P.S I understand what a university is, i'm just wondering if what you put in your profile is credited as a university or is just pretend =) I mean, usually Uni's teach logic - there are exceptions though religious uni's, crap unis etc.
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    (Original post by Crazster)
    you knew what death meant at 13? You could comprehend what it is? You know the meaning of the word, but do you know what the word actually refers to?

    E.g. you know what the holocaust was, but "this is TS ******* R, I'm sure most of you knew what the holocaust meant at age 13! For a lot of you, it was 3-5 years ago."

    That knowing the meaning of a word is adaquate to understanding that word?


    I know what a xyz (insert something my teacher said) estimation is, but do i understand it? Nope.
    No one knows what death is, but surely at 13, everyone will have formed their own opinion on it? You don't know, she might have decided that she will be going to a better afterlife.

    To be honest, you can't use the holocaust as an example. Especially not with me anyway, because I don't know what it was fully, and I was in exactly the same position when I was 13.

    You can't judge this girl for her decision.
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    (Original post by AnonyMatt)
    No one knows what death is, but surely at 13, everyone will have formed their own opinion on it? You don't know, she might have decided that she will be going to a better afterlife.

    To be honest, you can't use the holocaust as an example. Especially not with me anyway, because I don't know what it was fully, and I was in exactly the same position when I was 13.

    You can't judge this girl for her decision.
    someone else quoted me and responded to your post above, maybe quote them and ask them.
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    (Original post by Guy Secretan)
    A terminally-ill girl has won the right to die after a hospital ended its bid to force her to have a heart operation.

    Herefordshire Primary Care Trust dropped High Court proceedings after a child protection officer told the court Hannah Jones did not want the surgery.

    The 13-year-old, from Marden, has refused a heart transplant because it might not work and, if it did, would be followed by constant medication.

    The girl, who has a hole in her heart, says she wants to die with dignity.



    Thoughts? Personally I find it quite shocking

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7721231.stm
    This child is in my prayers.
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    I think this is a good thing. It's cruel to force someone to live on in endless suffering when they have no need to. It's just a shame that all this is happening to someone so young.
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    Honestly, I think a 13-year-old is too young to make such a decision.
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    There is no right or wrong to her decision, but I really think 13 is too young to be making this kind of decision. This 'hole' in the heart happens in 1 in a few thousand babies and through treatment most of the affected babies grow up to be reatively normal. It's not like this thing is not treatable. If it's terminal cancer, I can understand, this is just... But afterall, it's her life.
 
 
 
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