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    Child abuse is equally as bad as murder.
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    (Original post by decagon)
    Child abuse is equally as bad as murder.
    How is it? And surely if all humans are equal then child abue=abuse of adults. So what you're saying is attacking/raping an adult is as bad as murder? No.
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    Why the shock? If you read the news in war-torn countries, it's normal to see a child of 7/8 using a gun to kill soldiers.
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    (Original post by Yuffie)
    Ahh, "child abuse" - that old chestnut. So a psychopathic child kills two most probably innocent adults and people immediately shout child abuse.
    Thus is the nature of the concept of a "child".
    Good heavens. This is a remarkable thing to say. Because, it would of course, make heaps more sense for a child to be completely psychopathic and for the two adults to be completely innocent, than for the child to have been abused by the two adult men he lived with.
    This obviously makes complete sense, because clearly the logical assumption would be that an eight-year old was just a psycho. For no reason. He just was, y'know?
    [/sarcasm]

    I'm not dismissing the idea that the kid was, I dunno, mentally ill or something, and did genuinely kill two innocent men. I'm just applying a bit of logic to the situation.
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    (Original post by Yuffie)
    So a psychopathic child kills two most probably innocent adults and people immediately shout child abuse.
    That's why these things are investigated and the matter is decided in court.

    It has to be considered.

    If he killed two child abusers I'd like to see him get all the care he needs.

    If he killed two innocent people I'm glad I don't have to decide what to do with him.
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    (Original post by Yuffie)
    I somehow think murdering someone is far worse than child abuse.
    I don't think anyone is any place to be the judge of which of these two crimes is worse. The point is, you're busy making out that the adults were completely innocent and that the child was some sort of devil-boy or something.
    What we're saying is that it's quite likely that he was being abused and that he didn't know what to do and so did something awful. At eight, I think it's entirely possible to not realise how terrible it is.
    Don't dismiss the most sensical possibility, it just makes you sound dim.
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    He should be put in a mental hospital for at least 10 years, and then be re-assessed.
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    I would have known at 8 years old what would happen if I took a gun and shot my parents, particularly if I'd been hunting and saw what happened to the animals after they were shot.

    But the father took an 8 year old kid hunting? Wtf?!

    If he did do it, unless he had some sort of learning difficulties, he knew what would happen. Kids aren't innocent and angelic, parents just believe they are.
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    (Original post by junglemonkey)
    I would have known at 8 years old what would happen if I took a gun and shot my parents, particularly if I'd been hunting and saw what happened to the animals after they were shot.

    But the father took an 8 year old kid hunting? Wtf?!

    If he did do it, unless he had some sort of learning difficulties, he knew what would happen. Kids aren't innocent and angelic, parents just believe they are.
    Exactly, at 8 I was bloody well aware of what killing someone meant. He deserves the punishment.

    And whats wrong with an 8 year old going hunting?
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    they should lock him up and throw away the key.
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    (Original post by Slice)
    I don't think anyone is any place to be the judge of which of these two crimes is worse. The point is, you're busy making out that the adults were completely innocent and that the child was some sort of devil-boy or something.
    What we're saying is that it's quite likely that he was being abused and that he didn't know what to do and so did something awful. At eight, I think it's entirely possible to not realise how terrible it is.
    Don't dismiss the most sensical possibility, it just makes you sound dim.
    I'd argue that murder is always worse, as it leaves no possibility for things to get better (you are dead after all...). But nowhere in the article was any indication towards the father abusing the kid, only indications against it. The kid might have just been crazy, and (almost) certainly didn't realize how terrible it is (he's seen animals being shot and might have done it himself). Dismissing a possibility because all the evidence seems to be against it is a perfectly valid thing to do, until some new evidence supports it.

    To me, it seems like the kid was just crazy (could have been something from birth or whatever) and just didn't realize how bad it was. You could probably compare him to Dadinho in Cidade de Deus (a movie).
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    (Original post by Tinkerbee)
    Exactly, at 8 I was bloody well aware of what killing someone meant. He deserves the punishment.

    And whats wrong with an 8 year old going hunting?
    Sorry I just think it's an unusual activity for an 8 year old boy, exposing him to death and guns and stuff, and probably to a certain extent normalising it?? I dunno.
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    (Original post by junglemonkey)
    Sorry I just think it's an unusual activity for an 8 year old boy, exposing him to death and guns and stuff, and probably to a certain extent normalising it?? I dunno.
    While we in England may find it weird, it's something humans have been doing for millions of years, and it doesn't usually induce behaviour like that from children.
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    (Original post by Yuffie)
    While we in England may find it weird, it's something humans have been doing for millions of years, and it doesn't usually induce behaviour like that from children.
    Yeah I thought it would have worked the opposite way, he would have a better understanding of what happens when you take a gun and shoot a living thing than your average child.

    I just thought kids tended to go to Chuckie Cheeses and whatnot, but oh well.
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    (Original post by junglemonkey)
    Sorry I just think it's an unusual activity for an 8 year old boy, exposing him to death and guns and stuff, and probably to a certain extent normalising it?? I dunno.

    I suppose it depends on your upbringing. Ive been hunting since I was 5 (not quite the same as American hunting, but nevertheless) and I am well adjusted and non homicidal
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    (Original post by junglemonkey)
    Yeah I thought it would have worked the opposite way, he would have a better understanding of what happens when you take a gun and shoot a living thing than your average child.

    I just thought kids tended to go to Chuckie Cheeses and whatnot, but oh well.
    Ohhh, yes, I get you. Sorry, I'm a bit slow this morning. But yeah - punishment for child please.
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    Quick question to those of you who don't think the kid should be put away for the rest of his life. Imagine you were his neighbour. Would you feel comfortable having your kids go near him? Or your husband/wife? Would you feel safe? I, for one, would never feel safe around the likes of that, and I would refuse to ever be put near him.
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    (Original post by 4x4)
    I'd argue that murder is always worse, as it leaves no possibility for things to get better (you are dead after all...). But nowhere in the article was any indication towards the father abusing the kid, only indications against it. The kid might have just been crazy, and (almost) certainly didn't realize how terrible it is (he's seen animals being shot and might have done it himself). Dismissing a possibility because all the evidence seems to be against it is a perfectly valid thing to do, until some new evidence supports it.

    To me, it seems like the kid was just crazy (could have been something from birth or whatever) and just didn't realize how bad it was. You could probably compare him to Dadinho in Cidade de Deus (a movie).
    I just don't think it likely that the child was mentally ill or anything - because there was no indication in the article AT ALL that this could be a consideration. However, there was a suggestion that it was possible that the child had been abused, and the possibility was being investigated. However, I'm not dismissing the possibility. I'm just saying I think that there is a more logical explanation. I don't think any of us have enough details to say "He's innocent" or "He was justified" or "Lock him away". That's why I said not to dismiss it.

    I could argue that child abuse is worse, because within child abuse there is always a more innocent and less powerful victim (the child), whereas in a murder there isn't neccesarily that clear distinction. What I mean is, the murdered person could very easily have been doing something (I don't know what - something bad) to the murderer and the murderer could see no other way out of the situation. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to justify a murder on any level, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate to your reasoning that murder is worse. Also, you could argue that child abuse is worse, because it leaves the child alive to have to deal with the horrors it has been subjected to.

    I could argue all of the above, but I woun't because I've already said that I don't think it's anybody's place to say which is worse.
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    (Original post by Slice)
    I just don't think it likely that the child was mentally ill or anything - because there was no indication in the article AT ALL that this could be a consideration. However, there was a suggestion that it was possible that the child had been abused, and the possibility was being investigated. However, I'm not dismissing the possibility. I'm just saying I think that there is a more logical explanation. I don't think any of us have enough details to say "He's innocent" or "He was justified" or "Lock him away". That's why I said not to dismiss it.

    I could argue that child abuse is worse, because within child abuse there is always a more innocent and less powerful victim (the child), whereas in a murder there isn't neccesarily that clear distinction. What I mean is, the murdered person could very easily have been doing something (I don't know what - something bad) to the murderer and the murderer could see no other way out of the situation. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to justify a murder on any level, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate to your reasoning that murder is worse. Also, you could argue that child abuse is worse, because it leaves the child alive to have to deal with the horrors it has been subjected to.

    I could argue all of the above, but I woun't because I've already said that I don't think it's anybody's place to say which is worse.
    I remember pretty much nothing from before I was 12.
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    i blame television.
 
 
 
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