LPC/BPTC/LLM/MSC - Legal Career, Law students, Law,
Hello everyone 
I just wanted to get some advice from anyone who has done any of the above. I have already completed my LLB with a first class from an okish university, initially I wanted to do a LPC course but as none of the 'best unis' offer that, I am planning to do a MSc in Human Rights at LSE, however, I am unsure whether it is beneficial for a law career, or do employers prefer candidates with LPC/BPTC +(LLM) from a not so 'known/good' university?
I am extremely confused, and honestly do not understand why the best universities do not offer any LPC or BPTC courses. Due to the pandemic and other circumstances I have already wasted so much time, therefore I want to be sure in taking the right decision to not waste more time. :/
Any advice on this topic would be extremely helpful and much appreciated! Thank you in advance!
I just wanted to get some advice from anyone who has done any of the above. I have already completed my LLB with a first class from an okish university, initially I wanted to do a LPC course but as none of the 'best unis' offer that, I am planning to do a MSc in Human Rights at LSE, however, I am unsure whether it is beneficial for a law career, or do employers prefer candidates with LPC/BPTC +(LLM) from a not so 'known/good' university?
I am extremely confused, and honestly do not understand why the best universities do not offer any LPC or BPTC courses. Due to the pandemic and other circumstances I have already wasted so much time, therefore I want to be sure in taking the right decision to not waste more time. :/
Any advice on this topic would be extremely helpful and much appreciated! Thank you in advance!
(edited 1 year ago)
The LPC (and BPC - it's no longer called BPTC) are vocational qualifications, not academic ones. Which is why the "best" universities don't offer them - because those universities offer academic courses, not vocational ones. The LPC isn't even necessary to become a solicitor anymore and is being phased out too, so would be a waste of time regardless. You would need to sit the SQE instead (for which you may wish to do a prep course, although if you did a law degree this may or may not be necessary).
For the Bar side, the BPC is necessary to become a barrister - I think it's actually a prerequisite to securing pupillage (like the LPC was required normally to begin working on a training contract) although I'm not 100% certain on the latter point (@Crazy Jamie may be better able to advise on that). So you just suck it up and do it at BPP/ULaw like everyone else and I get the impression no one really cares much about it after your pupillage application (I'm not even sure how much your "results" from the BPC influence pupillage applications for that matter - something else Crazy Jamie may be able to advise on).
To become a solicitor a masters is not necessary or, I gather, even particularly useful at any stage. For becoming a barrister it may be useful background, perhaps. Although I'd note the masters at LSE in question isn't explicitly/specifically a legal qualification and I believe the focus is on interdisciplinary (mostly academic) approaches to human rights issues, although perhaps that kind of training is more useful at the Bar. But the main point is whether you do the LSE course or not, if you want to become a barrister you'll have to do the BPC sooner or later (unless they follow the SRA's approach with the LPC and do away with it).
For the Bar side, the BPC is necessary to become a barrister - I think it's actually a prerequisite to securing pupillage (like the LPC was required normally to begin working on a training contract) although I'm not 100% certain on the latter point (@Crazy Jamie may be better able to advise on that). So you just suck it up and do it at BPP/ULaw like everyone else and I get the impression no one really cares much about it after your pupillage application (I'm not even sure how much your "results" from the BPC influence pupillage applications for that matter - something else Crazy Jamie may be able to advise on).
To become a solicitor a masters is not necessary or, I gather, even particularly useful at any stage. For becoming a barrister it may be useful background, perhaps. Although I'd note the masters at LSE in question isn't explicitly/specifically a legal qualification and I believe the focus is on interdisciplinary (mostly academic) approaches to human rights issues, although perhaps that kind of training is more useful at the Bar. But the main point is whether you do the LSE course or not, if you want to become a barrister you'll have to do the BPC sooner or later (unless they follow the SRA's approach with the LPC and do away with it).
Original post by artful_lounger
For the Bar side, the BPC is necessary to become a barrister - I think it's actually a prerequisite to securing pupillage (like the LPC was required normally to begin working on a training contract) although I'm not 100% certain on the latter point (@Crazy Jamie may be better able to advise on that). So you just suck it up and do it at BPP/ULaw like everyone else and I get the impression no one really cares much about it after your pupillage application (I'm not even sure how much your "results" from the BPC influence pupillage applications for that matter - something else Crazy Jamie may be able to advise on).
The BPC is necessary in order to become a barrister. It doesn't matter where you do it, but the grade does matter. There is some variation now to the courses available. Since September 2020 there have been combined courses offered by some universities, and those are now starting to crop up more and more on pupillage applications. But if you do a straight bar course (which you probably will now that you've done your LLB) you can come away with a Competent, Very Competent or Outstanding grade, and you really need to come away with a Very Competent. That's the grade equivalent of a First, though with the BPC being vocational it's not as easy as saying that you'll be in a good position to do that because you got a First on your LLB. It's a very different course to an academic law degree, and you will both need to have the mindset to adapt to it as well as working very hard on it. It's not a particularly difficult course for the most part, but some do struggle with certain modules because of how different they are to what they've experienced before.
More broadly, to become a barrister you do need to be aware that the bottleneck is securing pupillage. You can apply for pupillages before or during the BPC, but can be offered one before you start or finish the BPC, but you cannot start pupillage until you have finished the BPC. Pupillage applications are incredibly competitive though, and very few candidates secure pupillage before starting the BPC. A minority secure pupillage whilst on the BPC too. In general you should expect to have to finish the BPC and find other relevant work afterwards as you strengthen your application. It's not a decision to be taken lightly. Don't worry about losing time; you have plenty of that. If you are interested in becoming a barrister I would suggest properly researching the career and securing a number of mini pupillages. You will also need to take a realistic view as to whether you either have or could build an application that could secure interviews, and whether from that you have a realistic chance of obtaining pupillage. Your First is a good start, even from a university that isn't particularly highly ranked (institution doesn't really matter for pupillage applications for the most part), but it is one piece of a much larger puzzle to construct a strong pupillage application. You need to really take some time to properly inform yourself about the career and the pupillage process before you decide to become a barrister.
Hello, @artful_lounger
thank you very much for your detailed information and reply! Really appreciate it.
Yes I would need to do the all the courses or exams in order to become a Solicitor or Barrister, however, I was wondering if I do not work as a proper qualified lawyer, whether employers, not only law firms particularly but e.g big organisations or other reputed company's legal departments also require these vocational courses or would a Masters from LSE be more beneficial?
I personally feel a highly ranked university might give you better chances for employment purposes, but I could be wrong? I am unsure whether I should proceed with the vocational courses as I feel it is a long way to climb up the ladder when it comes to employment, as getting a pupillage and training contacts are so competitive in the UK and then after all the struggle one starts with a quite low wage. I just feel I am running out of time and wasting any more would be disastrous. And I just dont know whether it is worth all the hassle.
On the other hand, as I do not have unlimited funds I am unsure whether investing so much for a Masters at LSE would be worth it. The course is not a specifically legal qualification but I chose this course as I thought it would be beneficial in legal sectors at international organisations. Or would you recommend a LLM would be much better? I feel a LLM would consume much more time and energy, especially if it would be at LSE. Or do employers don't care from which University you graduated? If not then I could consider doing BPC + LLM at BPP where they offer both in one course, or so maybe.
thank you very much for your detailed information and reply! Really appreciate it.
Yes I would need to do the all the courses or exams in order to become a Solicitor or Barrister, however, I was wondering if I do not work as a proper qualified lawyer, whether employers, not only law firms particularly but e.g big organisations or other reputed company's legal departments also require these vocational courses or would a Masters from LSE be more beneficial?
I personally feel a highly ranked university might give you better chances for employment purposes, but I could be wrong? I am unsure whether I should proceed with the vocational courses as I feel it is a long way to climb up the ladder when it comes to employment, as getting a pupillage and training contacts are so competitive in the UK and then after all the struggle one starts with a quite low wage. I just feel I am running out of time and wasting any more would be disastrous. And I just dont know whether it is worth all the hassle.
On the other hand, as I do not have unlimited funds I am unsure whether investing so much for a Masters at LSE would be worth it. The course is not a specifically legal qualification but I chose this course as I thought it would be beneficial in legal sectors at international organisations. Or would you recommend a LLM would be much better? I feel a LLM would consume much more time and energy, especially if it would be at LSE. Or do employers don't care from which University you graduated? If not then I could consider doing BPC + LLM at BPP where they offer both in one course, or so maybe.
Original post by artful_lounger
The LPC (and BPC - it's no longer called BPTC) are vocational qualifications, not academic ones. Which is why the "best" universities don't offer them - because those universities offer academic courses, not vocational ones. The LPC isn't even necessary to become a solicitor anymore and is being phased out too, so would be a waste of time regardless. You would need to sit the SQE instead (for which you may wish to do a prep course, although if you did a law degree this may or may not be necessary).
For the Bar side, the BPC is necessary to become a barrister - I think it's actually a prerequisite to securing pupillage (like the LPC was required normally to begin working on a training contract) although I'm not 100% certain on the latter point (@Crazy Jamie may be better able to advise on that). So you just suck it up and do it at BPP/ULaw like everyone else and I get the impression no one really cares much about it after your pupillage application (I'm not even sure how much your "results" from the BPC influence pupillage applications for that matter - something else Crazy Jamie may be able to advise on).
To become a solicitor a masters is not necessary or, I gather, even particularly useful at any stage. For becoming a barrister it may be useful background, perhaps. Although I'd note the masters at LSE in question isn't explicitly/specifically a legal qualification and I believe the focus is on interdisciplinary (mostly academic) approaches to human rights issues, although perhaps that kind of training is more useful at the Bar. But the main point is whether you do the LSE course or not, if you want to become a barrister you'll have to do the BPC sooner or later (unless they follow the SRA's approach with the LPC and do away with it).
For the Bar side, the BPC is necessary to become a barrister - I think it's actually a prerequisite to securing pupillage (like the LPC was required normally to begin working on a training contract) although I'm not 100% certain on the latter point (@Crazy Jamie may be better able to advise on that). So you just suck it up and do it at BPP/ULaw like everyone else and I get the impression no one really cares much about it after your pupillage application (I'm not even sure how much your "results" from the BPC influence pupillage applications for that matter - something else Crazy Jamie may be able to advise on).
To become a solicitor a masters is not necessary or, I gather, even particularly useful at any stage. For becoming a barrister it may be useful background, perhaps. Although I'd note the masters at LSE in question isn't explicitly/specifically a legal qualification and I believe the focus is on interdisciplinary (mostly academic) approaches to human rights issues, although perhaps that kind of training is more useful at the Bar. But the main point is whether you do the LSE course or not, if you want to become a barrister you'll have to do the BPC sooner or later (unless they follow the SRA's approach with the LPC and do away with it).
(edited 1 year ago)
Original post by ani2022
Hello, @artful_lounger
thank you very much for your detailed information and reply! Really appreciate it.
Yes I would need to do the all the courses or exams in order to become a Solicitor or Barrister, however, I was wondering if I do not work as a proper qualified lawyer, whether employers, not only law firms particularly but e.g big organisations or other reputed company's legal departments also require these vocational courses or would a Masters from LSE be more beneficial? I personally feel a highly ranked university might give you better chances for employment purposes, but I could be wrong? I am unsure whether I should proceed with the vocational courses as I feel it is a long way to climb up the ladder when it comes to employment, as getting a puppilage and training contacts are so competitve in the UK and then after all the struggle one starts with a quite low wage. I just feel I am running out of time and wasting any more would be disatrous. And I just dont know whether it is worth all the hassle. On the other hand, as I do not have unlimited funds I am unsure whether investing so much for a Masters at LSE would be worth it. The course is not a specifically legal qulaification but I chose this course as I thought it would be beneficial in legal sectors at international organisations. Or would you recommend a LLM would be much better? I feel a LLM would consume much more time and energy, especially if it would be at LSE. Or do employers don't care from which University you graduated? If not then I could consider doing BPC + LLM or so maybe.
thank you very much for your detailed information and reply! Really appreciate it.
Yes I would need to do the all the courses or exams in order to become a Solicitor or Barrister, however, I was wondering if I do not work as a proper qualified lawyer, whether employers, not only law firms particularly but e.g big organisations or other reputed company's legal departments also require these vocational courses or would a Masters from LSE be more beneficial? I personally feel a highly ranked university might give you better chances for employment purposes, but I could be wrong? I am unsure whether I should proceed with the vocational courses as I feel it is a long way to climb up the ladder when it comes to employment, as getting a puppilage and training contacts are so competitve in the UK and then after all the struggle one starts with a quite low wage. I just feel I am running out of time and wasting any more would be disatrous. And I just dont know whether it is worth all the hassle. On the other hand, as I do not have unlimited funds I am unsure whether investing so much for a Masters at LSE would be worth it. The course is not a specifically legal qulaification but I chose this course as I thought it would be beneficial in legal sectors at international organisations. Or would you recommend a LLM would be much better? I feel a LLM would consume much more time and energy, especially if it would be at LSE. Or do employers don't care from which University you graduated? If not then I could consider doing BPC + LLM or so maybe.
The BPC (and LPC ) has no value outside of the legal profession. If you are just looking to work in e.g. non-legal civil service roles, generalist grad schemes in accounting, finance, banking, the media, business, etc, then there is no point or benefit in taking the BPC. It's a vocational training course designed to prepare you for advocacy work as a barrister. This doesn't really do much of anything for anyone else.
Likewise if you're working in a non-legal role/sector, then LLM vs MSc makes no difference and both would be seen equivalently.
If you are working as a lawyer outside of a law firm (e.g. general counsel or something?) you would have to be either on a training contract to become a solciitor (requiring the SQE) or a pupillage to become a barrister (requiring the BPC). Otherwise you'd just be a paralegal or admin staff I guess, where you don't need either (but that's probably not the career you are aiming for by the sound of it...).
If you want to be a solicitor then remember the LPC route is closing (look on law firms' training contract websites for their dates of moving to the new system). Most LLB students apply years ahead during their degree for training contracts so you are in a different position. If I were you I could take out a student loan masters loan for BPP's SQE1 and 2 course and fund anything over and above that and this summer apply vigorously for all kinds of solicitor training contracts and then start that post grad course full time this September ( see Complete SQE training law graduates https://www.bpp.com/courses/law/postgraduate/sqe/complete-sqe-training ).
That gives yo more options than the LPC given you do not have a TC yet (this is all if you want to go down the solicitor route). there is no advantage at all in doing the masters you mention if you want to qualify as a solicitor or barrister.
Once you pass SQE1 and 2 you then do a 2 year TC (or 4 stints of QWE) and then are qualified as a solicitor.
That gives yo more options than the LPC given you do not have a TC yet (this is all if you want to go down the solicitor route). there is no advantage at all in doing the masters you mention if you want to qualify as a solicitor or barrister.
Once you pass SQE1 and 2 you then do a 2 year TC (or 4 stints of QWE) and then are qualified as a solicitor.
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