Students campaign over new union

University of Aberdeen

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20083

ketisfolk

First of all, Silly Fencer:

The SA is far from being an elitist club, it's just that the people in it are very enthusiastic to change things and so contect with each other on that level, which can make it seem cliquey. But seriously, we're very approachable. I email the VP and president and I do get a reply. When and what have you been emailing about?

The hub was a refurb. They gutted the central refectory and built the new stuff inside it. See link: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/central/vcampus/kings/ref.shtml

I agree with your other points.

Secondly Me Myself I:

You are right, the president last year(07/08) was Angela Fraser. This year it's Duncan MacKay. You somehow managed to miss all this, and I can't work out how, there was as many posters as ever... Anyway, next elections are in April, I believe. Try and remember to vote :smile:

Have you been on the website recently? Yes, some bits are neglected, I'll admit, but the societies listing is the most up to date it's ever been in recent times. Another way to get in touch with societies is to leave them a note in their pidgeon hole in the societies room in the Hub, 1st floor.
Details of the current sabbatical officers can be found here:AUSA Exec Ctte

As with Silly Fencer, who and what have you been emailing about?

#

The AUSA don't technically have to help students do anything except be represented regarding any issues affecting us on campus and on a local and national level as well. But any good trade union (and that is what AUSA is) will put on extra services for their members, and AUSA's includes joblink, for displaying vacancies, a volunteering database and 'dirty weekenders' for halping out every so often, and yes, there is a flat hunting database, which I was looking at recently and it seemed better stocked than ever. There is a lack of housing available in Aberdeen anyway though, bear that in mind. The details of all this are available on the website, though the links on the left hand side.

Are you involved with the alumni phonecalls then I take it? Also, I'm not convinced about the new library, but that's a whole other point.

Anyway, to sum up, I think this years SA team is the most pro-active for a few years, and they are really trying to sort things out. I'm sorry if it seems inaccessable to people, I'm going to try and see what can be done about that.

I had a feeling from an earlier post that you were something to do with the SA. I'll take time later to post a detailed (and hopefully interesting) response to you.

University of Aberdeen

Reply 81

v3n0m06

The Union was terrible anyway. Seriously, who is going to go there rather than the Hole or somewhere like Sin, which is just as cheap?

Reply 82

20083

v3n0m06

The Union was terrible anyway. Seriously, who is going to go there rather than the Hole or somewhere like Sin, which is just as cheap?

Well, anyone who realises that Sin is terrible. What makes you think it is just as cheap as the Union was? I've never had a pint for £1.50 in sin, or a vodka+red bull for £1.

Reply 83

L i b

ketisfolk

1. A large amount of apathy about the SA in general. Nobody particuarly seems to understand how much they do, and how much influence they have at the uni.

Welcome to student life in general. Only union hacks really care about the SA at any university. Most students probably don't even have a clue who or what the Chancellor, Vice Chancellor or University Court are and do.

If you have a union, at least you have a connection with the people you serve!

2. The uni is refusing to give the SA a premises anywhere on campus, to run by itself. The Hub is not owned or run by the SA, this is done by Campus Services. The SA has asked about taking over where buchart is once the sports centre is up and running, but they've said no. They asked about king's pavillion as well, but that is apperently getting turned into an art gallery WTF? The other thing is that kings has a lot of residents, and they might not appriciate a loud union near by. There is also argumants about how king's is always prioritised over foresterhill. Frankly, I think the FH peeps need to get over it. Sorry.

Undoubtedly, I think it has to be near King's - or at least within pissing distance of it. I don't really see the pavilion as suitable though.

I'd like to know why the university is being obtuse about letting the SA use their land, after all it's for mutual benefit. There are appropriate spaces within the King's campus which I think would not bother local residents. Even if it did, they can hardly move next door to a university that's been there for over 500 years and complain about students milling about...

3. The memory of the littlejohn st union, as it was crap. It was all the same, and it needs to have different areas. At a SA council meeting last semester, it was suggested that a new union shouldn't be opened for 4 years, so that all the current students have gone and no one can remember the old one, and thus won't have preconceptions about the new one.

That's a lot of old twaddle! If you give students somewhere appropriate, they'll go - that's just how it works. Moreover, all unions are disproportionately frequented by freshers anyway.

4. A premises in town would have to be one in a current building, as there is no space in town I can think of to build a whole new one. Premises in town will cost a lot of money.

Bad idea, I'd say, now that Marischal isn't really on the daily visiting schedule of anyone.

5. BTW, the SA budet is £1.4 million. Consider that the refurb of the Hub cost £8million. They'll have to raise a lot of funds to get the union we deserve. I think it is worth being sure what we want and need out of our union before we go ahead and do it.

I'd say it should be given some thought, but I don't think you appreciate just how off-putting not having a union can be to potential applicants, or its effect on the university community as a whole. It's quite frankly a disgrace, and the longer that goes on the worse things are for the university.

I know mis-directed moaning solves nothing, but I'd also like to know what happened to the Gallowgate Union. Most students' unions admittedly operate within buildings which were built long ago and that is essentially an unaccounted benefit. So was the old union owned by the university or the SA? How was it disposed of? What happened to any money raised from that and why wasn't it directed into some sort of capital holding to replace itself?

Equally, I think the Hub is too overdone, as many buildings are these days. Some of the best union buildings are a bit shabby, don't have modern glass walls everywhere and widescreen televisions on every wall. I'm thinking here about the unions at Glasgow (and the Art School union for that matter) and perhaps Teviot in Edinburgh; ditto Dundee - many people have fonder memories of it before it was refurbished in 2004. I don't think money should be wasted in creating some sort of IKEA-esque modern facility, just something that works.

I've rambled on a bit there, but it really does get my goat that Aberdeen does not have this most basic of facilities.

Reply 84

L i b

SillyFencer

The hub didn't have a refurb - it was purpose built from the ground up.

Was it? I only vaguely remember visiting the area back in 2003 or 04 to have a look round; was the previous building completely demolished then?

In my experience emailing the presidents does not even get a reply.

That's utterly appalling.

...and why the heck doesn't the website carry pdfs of Gaudie anymore.

v3n0m06

The Union was terrible anyway. Seriously, who is going to go there rather than the Hole or somewhere like Sin, which is just as cheap?

Unions are more than just cheap bars, they are central hubs of a student community. People have many reasons for going to them.

Reply 85

20083

L i b

Was it? I only vaguely remember visiting the area back in 2003 or 04 to have a look round; was the previous building completely demolished then?

I thought so, but ketisfolk assures me I'm wrong - so we'll go with that. lol I cannot remember what was there before.

Reply 86

smellslikemarmite

I don't think it necessarily needs to be on campus, although if you look at the popularity of The Bobbin and The Watering Hole then that might give a good indication of how well a union on campus would do.

Reply 87

ketisfolk

I had a feeling from an earlier post that you were something to do with the SA. I'll take time later to post a detailed (and hopefully interesting) response to you.

Yes, as my signature says, I am a member of the Equal Opportunities Committee, which means I'm also on the SA council. I'm a fairly minor member, but I'm thinking of running for JVP equal ops later this year. EO doesn't really have much to do with the union, but as a council we all have to take some kind of an interest in it, or should do anyway.

Reply 88

ketisfolk

Okay L i b, saw your post :smile:

1. Apathy, yes, it's rife amongst students, even I'm apathetic about some things. But how much is apathy and how much is just not knowing, due to lack of publicity or otherwise?

If you have a union, at least you have a connection with the people you serve!

Not if people are not going!

2.

This I agree with. I'm not saying the pavilion is a good building, in all likelihood it would have been razed down and the new union built in its place. I'm just reporting what has been said by others.

3. That's a lot of old twaddle! If you give students somewhere appropriate, they'll go - that's just how it works. Moreover, all unions are disproportionately frequented by freshers anyway.

Again, I only report what others said. I personally think this is an extreme measure. Yes, if it's appropiate, then they will come. People had misgivings about the Hub, but it's actually not that bad.

5. I'd say it should be given some thought, but I don't think you appreciate just how off-putting not having a union can be to potential applicants, or its effect on the university community as a whole. It's quite frankly a disgrace, and the longer that goes on the worse things are for the university.

tbh, I'm not sure that many people will look into it deeply (I know I didn't), and if finding out whether the uni has a union is your first priority, then I wouldn't be sure you were coming to uni for the right reasons.
I suspect that the uni will gloss over the fact there isn't a union. It wasn't even a big mention (if at all) in the prospectus from what I remember.
I would say that the right union is an important factor in the university community, but sometimes no union is better than a bad union, and the littlejohn st one was hardly being used. It was hemorraging money, which was a major factor in getting shutting it. No one was willing to throw more good money after bad.

I know mis-directed moaning solves nothing, but I'd also like to know what happened to the Gallowgate Union. Most students' unions admittedly operate within buildings which were built long ago and that is essentially an unaccounted benefit. So was the old union owned by the university or the SA? How was it disposed of? What happened to any money raised from that and why wasn't it directed into some sort of capital holding to replace itself?

I don't really know anything about the old union, as it was shut before I ever got here. I get the impression that it too was underused and losing money, hence why they moved into a smaller premises. See here for that impression.
Who owned it? I got no clue, but a further media statement says it was sold to the same folks that own Bon Accord and St Nicholas shopping centres. I suspect the uni owned it, and they've pocketed the money for that ice cube of a library.

Anyway, something I should have said way at the beginning of all this, is that another root of the whole problem is the mishandling of the whole thing by previous administrations, and I think that it has only been with this lot, where most of the committee changed entirely, that things are finally making progress. I'm also sure a fair few of you will disagree with me on that point. Oh well, can't please everyone.

Reply 89

L i b

Hello.

First off, I appreciate you taking the time to give the insider position of the AUSA. It's interesting to be able to get two sides to the issue.

I'll say in my experience, even the best advertised elections aren't widely bothered with by students. You must remember, most are just in there to get their degree, piss about and leave rather than leave a mark or attempt to change things. Even the high profile rectorial elections in Glasgow and Edinburgh (which are, I'm sorry to say, a lot better in recent years than the three northern ancients) get fairly poor turnouts. I can't say I mind really: if people care, they vote; there's not a lot of point in getting the people who don't really care out to cast their votes with little thought.

As for the LJ Street Union, I don't really consider that a Union at all. It was a bar, nothing much more; I was all for its closure. A real union is a multi-purpose space at the heart of a university community. That wasn't. I can also see the reasons the Gallowgate union failed - even at that time, the university was moving teaching away from Marischal - it was a predictable downfall. I really believe that even the worst or cheapest union would provide a great deal to the university community: if you build it, they will come!

When you say about mishandling by previous administrations - a lot of the financial functions of SAs are overseen by other individuals, and often Students' Unions have professional managers, who are I suppose ultimately accountable to the SRC etc. I'd like to know, as a result, who was really responsible rather than just a general slamming.

But the real priority must be in (a) reconnecting with students - which really isn't a difficult task and (b) proposing plans to have a new union constructed as quickly as possible. Given the one-year tenures of SA officials, this is difficult; but that's what I'd be examining them on if I still had a vote. Hell, I intend to have a vote again soon - I hope to be doing my Diploma in Legal Practice at Aberdeen either this year or next. If it's not sorted then, I'll bloody well run myself.

Reply 90

Keeno89

L i b

If it's not sorted then, I'll bloody well run myself.

I wish I had that attitude :yes:

Reply 91

abgrad

This hasnt been posted in for a month but I just wanted to comment. I used to be part of the AUSA and when we had events we sent an email to every single student at the university to publicise our event as well as posters but people still complained we were not publicing enough! What do people want, an AUSA member to go and knock on the doors of all 15,000 or so students?!?

As for it being elitist, I disagree. When i was there it was easy for anyone to get involved if they made a little effort. There were often spaces in all the committees (excluding sports of course, always full) so all people had to do was get some nominations to be involved but most people seem to be too lazy to even do that. I didnt know anyone in AUSA before I got involved but I was made to feel very welcome.

Go to the top floor of the Hub and ask at the office if you want to find out about AUSA stuff, that's what it is there for, you cant expect everything handed to you on a plate!

You should be proud of AUSA. What other uni has the torcher parade, jailbreak and superteams? these are some of the amazing events run by AUSA to name only a few. Joblink and the volunteering service are hugely valuable resources that many universities do not possess.

The sabbaticals are giving up a year of their time to give something back to the uni and they get paid pittence and work many unsocial hours with little thanks from the general student population. Those who are complaining should be more proactive and give AUSA some support! Sorry for the long comment but it makes me quite annoyed.

Reply 92

20083

abgrad

It is elitist. Very. You can't see it because you are looking from the wrong side. It is very difficult to get involved, as all the other people know someone to help them get an edge on everyone else.

Emails??? Rubbish. If I was willing to show you my entire mailbox I could prove it, as I never delete an email. There are very few from the AUSA in there, and with the torcher parade in less than 8 weeks - there's still no word.

I'm sure that other uni's SAs do at least the same as hours, but with basic functions such as a union too.

The sabbaticals give up nothing. They put off having to work for a whole year to spend the time having fun and earning cash.

Edit: Oh yeah... and your last sentence annoys me. These posts that you are getting annoyed at are coming from the people you are supposed to be representing. It is also the general view around campus. Instead of "getting annoyed" at comments like these, it's time the SA took them serious and started to act on them.

Reply 93

HyperBrain

SillyFencer

I think part of the problem is people aren't aware of AUSA, e.g. what it does, the services they provide for students and how they can get involved. "Make A Difference. Get Involved" :rolleyes:

All the people I've met who are involved seem like a friendly, approachable bunch of people though.

Emails??? Rubbish. If I was willing to show you my entire mailbox I could prove it, as I never delete an email. There are very few from the AUSA in there, and with the torcher parade in less than 8 weeks - there's still no word.

I've had a few recently, one about a survey and the other about elections IIRC. They also mailed stuff to everyone in halls a while back. There's a thing about Torcher on MOTD, it's on 2nd May: http://www.ausa.org.uk/content/page.php?page_id=10&sub_id=23
(And I think they're still looking for a sponsor? :unsure:

)

The sabbaticals give up nothing. They put off having to work for a whole year to spend the time having fun and earning cash.

I like that the next election is promoted as:

Take a paid year out!

on MOTD.
(Some positions are part-time and unpaid though, that seems like hard work?)

In other SA news, I heard that they'll be moving into Butchart once the Sports Village opens. If true I think it's a bad idea.

Edit: And I see from Gaudie that Fitzpatrick's has now closed. Headline: "Union Curse Strikes Again"

Reply 94

20083

HyperBrain

I think part of the problem is people aren't aware of AUSA, e.g. what it does, the services they provide for students and how they can get involved. "Make A Difference. Get Involved" :rolleyes:

All the people I've met who are involved seem like a friendly, approachable bunch of people though.

That description sounds very elitist to me, well, the bit in bold anyway.

)

Hmm... well I've had very few, so if I have been missed out - who else has? Why don't they just send to the all students list?

I like that the next election is promoted as: on MOTD.
(Some positions are part-time and unpaid though, that seems like hard work?)

In other SA news, I heard that they'll be moving into Butchart once the Sports Village opens. If true I think it's a bad idea.

Hmm... don't like that idea. What will become of the Hub then? Commercialise it even more? Sad.

Edit: And I see from Gaudie that Fitzpatrick's has now closed. Headline: "Union Curse Strikes Again"

Lol, oh dear.

Reply 95

L i b

abgrad

that's what it is there for, you cant expect everything handed to you on a plate!

I disagree with that sentiment. The vast majority of students are never going to be even faintly interested in the organisation of AUSA, nor need they be. However that should not exclude them from having their views and concerns taken into account. You do need to come to them: these ordinary members are AUSA, not just the Exec members. Its down to you to approach them in order to represent them.

The sabbaticals are giving up a year of their time to give something back to the uni and they get paid pittence and work many unsocial hours with little thanks from the general student population.

I don't know what the Sabbs at Aberdeen get paid, but I do know at Dundee it is (or was, a couple of years ago) in the region of £17-18,000pa, along with other advantages such as not having to pay council tax: I don't imagine the Aberdeen ones get significantly less - that's probably better than a most recent graduates and undergraduates are earning. It's hardly giving up a year of their life either, it's a job and it looks good on the CV.

Ever thought they get little thanks from the students because the students aren't happy with them? There's not a lot of scope for influencing their performance: assuming they are already elected, it's difficult to remove them and most aren't interested in serving multiple terms. But Aberdeen has singly, out of probably all Students' Associations in Britain, failed to hold even the most basic Students' Union. That's hardly a great demonstration of their ability, and that's the sort of thing students are noticing.

Reply 96

L i b

HyperBrain

In other SA news, I heard that they'll be moving into Butchart once the Sports Village opens

What's Luthuli House being used for these days anyway?

And I see from Gaudie

I'm still bitter that they don't publish that online any more. I mean really, how much effort would it take?

Reply 97

Becca-Sarah

It would be so useful to have the Gaudie online... I'm at Marischal all the time so I never see a copy!

Reply 98

ThisLittlePiggy

L i b

Art School union

rools: Art school is a pure beast. Great nights every time I've been and the Halloween party is unbeatable!

What Aberdeen needs is a big building with a few floors,for different types of stuff, whilst also making it old school. Essentially QMU and GU in one building. Has to be on campus because most people will be able to take part.Even medics who are in never never land,miles away, can take part.

Aberdeen deserves boat races,cheesy pop,plaques with things written on them,competitions,cheap drink and a great night out. Something to make Liquid shake it its boots. I have people who swear by Glasgow Union or by QMU and forsake all others. Why can't Aberdeen have the same. Surely, there are enough people who want what every other University already has?

SillyFencer

Well, anyone who realises that Sin is terrible. What makes you think it is just as cheap as the Union was? I've never had a pint for £1.50 in sin, or a vodka+red bull for £1.

The union was awful. Admit that and then you'll get people to talk about how bad sin is.The union was stale,had no atmosphere and no interest. At least sin,when I went, was able to a crowd going and played music that reflected the mood of the night. Electric music for electric people and on a Friday night; that is what the people wanted and that is what the people got.