Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    Here is the most recent article from Ms. Bindel:

    It's not me. It's you.

    Some background/older articles:

    The Great Gender-Neutral Toilet Scandal

    Fight, Fight, Fight

    Gender Benders, Beware

    In her defence, she had done great work for women's rights, in particular helping to defend women who kill their husbands after severe domestic abuse.

    However, I am at a loss to understand what her views of trans issues really are. I can't decide whether she is just a militant bigot or whether she has some interesting points and is simply conveying them in an agressive manner.

    However, her personal views aside, I believe she is an awful journalist. Her work is riddled with factual inaccuracies, pointless controversy and arrogance. If she toned her articles down, tried not to cause gross offense and actually finished her research, she might be worth reading.

    (If anyone actually posts, or challenges me, I'll put some more detail in. No point making the first post an essay!)
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    What an utterly pointless article. How can she say so little in so many words?
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    She does seem quite anti-trans, but she also has some good points I think. For one thing, I agree that trans-sexual/gender issues shouldn't be lumped in with LGB ones. I find it quite strange that they are so often put together. To me they seem to be more or less separate issues. LGB is about who you are attracted to and trans issues are about who you are. I think trans people would be better served by organisations based specifically around their issues because they are generally quite different to LGB issues.

    Also I agree to some extent about the MTF person who wanted to be a rape crisis counsellor. It's all well and good to have equal opportunities legislation in the workplace, but it's not always appropriate when that can be detrimental to the work you are doing. Especially when it's something as personal as rape victim counselling. The fact is most female rape victims are not going to be comfortable talking to a counsellor who looks like a man, or even if they do look like a woman, it's likely they wouldn't be comfortable talking to someone who used to be a man. It's not fair to make the counselling organisation hire someone who effectively can't do their job, however unfair it seems on the person who's been turned down for the job. If you're going to blame anyone for it, blame the rape victims for being so gender sensitive. I'm sure you realise how ridiculous that is so maybe the best thing to do is just accept that it's not appropriate to be a rape victim counsellor if you're a trans person.

    I think it's an interesting point about how trans people always seem to conform to extreme gender stereotypes. But I suppose it makes sense because if a pre-op MTF transsexual dressed like an average woman, most of the time no one would know they want to be thought of as a woman. Same goes for FTM transsexuals.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Julie Bindel is a terrible human being.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Psyk)
    She does seem quite anti-trans, but she also has some good points I think. For one thing, I agree that trans-sexual/gender issues shouldn't be lumped in with LGB ones. I find it quite strange that they are so often put together. To me they seem to be more or less separate issues. LGB is about who you are attracted to and trans issues are about who you are. I think trans people would be better served by organisations based specifically around their issues because they are generally quite different to LGB issues.
    This is an interesting point, and one that I feel she could have explored in a calm and thorough manner.

    I think that having sexuality and gender issues together isn't a problem unless someone wants to make it one. I don't mind working with trans people (in fact, I rather like the trans/genderqueer people I have worked with!) and I find they can give perfectly valid insights into the sexuality side of LGBT. After all, they will have a sexuality. The harder issue is whether LGB(etc) people can fully support those with gender issues. I think that this question is more about people than their experiences. Anyone who is open-minded and a good listener can potentialy support someone else who is open-minded. Not everyone shares experiences anyway - you can't even rely on two trans people to be able to support each other as one might have had a very supportive background and the other might have had a very traumatic experience coming out. Or they might just be obtuse people that don't get along.

    Maybe it would be ideal to have different support and liberation groups for gender issues, but those specialised support systems are not in place and I think most trans people are willing to muck in with non-heterosexuals and visa versa. Most LGBT committees and groups have trans reps and people who can deal with gender issues, so it's not as if the trans people are just thrown to the sharks within the LGBT community. It takes someone with a real "us and them" attitude to make a big deal out of it.

    Also I agree to some extent about the MTF person who wanted to be a rape crisis counsellor. It's all well and good to have equal opportunities legislation in the workplace, but it's not always appropriate when that can be detrimental to the work you are doing. Especially when it's something as personal as rape victim counselling. The fact is most female rape victims are not going to be comfortable talking to a counsellor who looks like a man, or even if they do look like a woman, it's likely they wouldn't be comfortable talking to someone who used to be a man. It's not fair to make the counselling organisation hire someone who effectively can't do their job, however unfair it seems on the person who's been turned down for the job. If you're going to blame anyone for it, blame the rape victims for being so gender sensitive. I'm sure you realise how ridiculous that is so maybe the best thing to do is just accept that it's not appropriate to be a rape victim counsellor if you're a trans person.
    I'm undecided about this, but I definitely think that it needs discussion. I appreciate that some women would be touchy about talking to a man, and this might carry through to them feeling uncomfortable talking to someone who is obviously trans, but I think this is a bit irrational. This isn't an issue of the person they are discussing the situation with being able to relate to their experience, as I don't think anyone who has not suffered rape or had someone close to them suffer a rape can really relate to a rape victim. It is more an issue of perception, and I think that can be overcome with education and exposure.

    So, I don't agree that equal opportunities > other considerations, but I do think the issue needs looking at.

    I feel the way Bindel dealt with it was crudely, aggressively and in a manner that doesn't befit a 'high class' journalist.

    I think it's an interesting point about how trans people always seem to conform to extreme gender stereotypes. But I suppose it makes sense because if a pre-op MTF transsexual dressed like an average woman, most of the time no one would know they want to be thought of as a woman. Same goes for FTM transsexuals.
    I know a couple of trans people that look perfectly 'normal'. One is a biological male who looks a bit like an indie kid (okay, bad explaination) and while he identifies as trans at the moment, he is fairly easy about pro-nouns (hence why I have been able to refer to him as 'he'). He certainly doesn't walk around in frocks and with a perm. The other is a post-op MTF and she, while having a slightly gothy dress sense and pink hair, is actually very pretty and her looks don't scream "look at me, I'm a WOMAN"

    However, I do see your point. If someone is MTF, they probably are going to want to distance themselves from anything overtly masculine, which can lead to the extremes of feminine dressing.

    Ever seen the film Hedwig and the Angry Inch?
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: November 12, 2008
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    What's your favourite Christmas sweets?
    Useful resources
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.