Dropping out of Oxford University

I've just completed my first year at Oxford University and it went very badly.

TL;dr, Oxford University makes me depressed and incredibly insecure, I don't want to sacrifice my mental state for better future job prospects. Considering taking a year out then moving to a London university to be closer to my family. Thoughts?

I've just completed my first year at Oxford University and it went very badly.

For context, I'm studying Maths and Computer Science.

No-one talks about the jump from regular non-selective state school to literally one of the best universities in the world, and it was very difficult for me to come to terms with the drastically different teaching style, and expectations. I spent at least 2 terms getting to grips with it.

This next part will sound very imposter syndrome-y, but please hear me out (I'm sick of people just assuming that I'm overreacting and completely dismissing my viewpoint whenever I ask for help).

I've always been a hard worker, this is how I did so well at GCSEs and A-levels, but I don't believe I'm inherently intelligent (to the extent that most Oxford students doing STEM are). Although I've been able to work incredibly hard to do well in the past, I feel like the combined requirement for high level intelligence and hard work is not something I can healthily (nor sustainably) achieve. Generally, I substitute areas where I would require better natural understanding with just putting more hours in until I finally understand something (which most/all of my course-mates would have understood within the day of being introduced to it - as they were able to apply it in problem sheets and discuss it with ease - whereas it would take me 5/6 days to be able to apply it and literally never be able to discuss anything with ease), but there are only so many hours in a day and its very mentally straining.

Over the years, my self-worth has become intertwined with my academic success, as I have very few achievements besides doing well in school. I feel if I were to continue at Oxford, this would only magnify, and I fear it may slip me back into a depressive state like I was experiencing during exam season (more on this later). I'm unsure how many people know what it feels like to just feel constantly inadequate, but for those who don't, the best way I can describe it is like this...

Imagine an infinite amount of infinitely tall ladders placed one next to the other in a circular shape so you can see everyone else. You are on a ladder. Every time you are happy about yourself/your life, you climb up a rung on the ladder, every time you feel like you are not good enough, a rung disappears from the bottom of the ladder. Constant inadequacy, for me, feels like hanging only with your hands on the lowest rung, and to move up it takes so much more effort because I have to pull myself up using only my arms. Every time I move up, I see my peers, all happily moving up with ease and I realise how bad I am doing relative to them - then *poof* I'm back at the bottom again. And it's just a never ending cycle of this.

I also failed my prelims. After studying 10 hours a day for 2 weeks prior to the exams (as well as more casual studying all the way through Trinity term), then hitting burnout about 5 days before my first exam, and slipping into a depressive state. I managed to scrape a pass in the two maths exams, but I failed two of three computer science exams.

I generally found my maths modules easier to study for, the available resources were much better than the computer science ones, and I prefer the question style - I found computer science questions (both in exams and problem sheets) to often be slightly "wishy-washy" and depend too heavily on me filling in the gaps of questions in order to understand what they were asking for. I can definitely say that I prefer the maths side of my course, and I realise now that the main reason I went for the joint course is due to my enjoyment of programming, and its freedom, but when this aspect of computer science is minimised and the only bits I do get are heavily constrained and seem somewhat irrelevant, and my excitement for the subject just fizzles out.

I find this to be a real problem at Oxford (and probably other universities), I've spoken to many students who come in with a passion for their subject, but the switch from learning for enjoyment to now being forced onto you essentially strips away that passion. Unfortunately, I came having a "fake passion", and what I mean by this is because I find myself being fulfilled by hard work and seeing results. I simply use my subject as a vector for that. I realised early on into the year that I could be doing any subject and be getting the same amount of enjoyment from it, because I like learning in general, and I'm not as bothered by the specifics of the content for which I am learning. I'm simply an all-rounder, I did well in GCSEs because I found myself not confined to any one subject too heavily, and it was the same in A-levels.

Another aspect of Oxford that I really struggled with was the time away from family, they are my main support system. Every weekend I would retreat home (South London) in need of emotional, mental, and physical comfort, all of which would be replenished at home. The weeks felt very empty and difficult, the only thing getting me through was the thought of Friday evening when I would board the OxfordTube at Gloucester Green bus station ready for the 2.5/3 hour journey home.

This is why I want to dropout/switch universities, I understand many people would want me to stick with it and give it more time, but I know it'd be dead time and I really don't want to do another year of it. I find to be too mentally draining, and I'd rather cut my loses now than cause anymore unnecessary damage. I'm not going to sacrifice my happiness for better job prospects, I'd rather work a low-level job but be happy.

I'm currently thinking of taking a year out, and then reapplying to a London university to study Maths starting September 2023. During my year out I want to focus on doing to stuff that makes me happy, and most importantly to rebuild my confidence.

I feel quite lost right now, so any advice or personal experiences would be greatly appreciated!

TL;dr, Oxford University makes me depressed and incredibly insecure, I don't want to sacrifice my mental state for better future job prospects. Considering taking a year out then moving to a London university to be closer to my family. Thoughts?

Another aspect of Oxford that I really struggled with was the time away from family, they are my main support system. Every weekend I would retreat home (South London) in need of emotional, mental, and physical comfort, all of which would be replenished at home. The weeks felt very empty and difficult, the only thing getting me through was the thought of Friday evening when I would board the OxfordTube at Gloucester Green bus station ready for the 2.5/3 hour journey home.

Although I've been able to work incredibly hard to do well in the past, I feel like the combined requirement for high level intelligence and hard work is not something I can healthily (nor sustainably) achieve. Generally, I substitute areas where I would require better natural understanding with just putting more hours in until I finally understand something (which most/all of my course-mates would have understood within the day of being introduced to it - as they were able to apply it in problem sheets and discuss it with ease - whereas it would take me 5/6 days to be able to apply it and literally never be able to discuss anything with ease), but there are only so many hours in a day and its very mentally straining.

Ultimately, this instigated the beginning of your downfall at Oxford, as opposed to you not being intelligent enough. Combined with the inability to seek assistance from Oxford's mental health team (at least not reported in your post), has contributed to your problems here.

A bit unkind - do you really think Oxford support Mental health well? I strongly refute that as would many alumni.

Well, that's an entirely different debate for another thread, but I'm not aware of the failings or intricacies of Oxford's MHS, but nevertheless, if he had contacted them and they didn't help him/her effectively, that would be an entirely different topic in its self.

Ultimately, we don't know if he/she contacting Oxford's MHS would have failed them. Perhaps in this case, it would have worked. But, we will never know. It's Oxford's responsibility, but not contacting them at all, was his fault - regardless whether there is any perceived failings, there is still a duty to contact them.

Who said the OP was male? There is no 'duty' if you don't recognise you are struggling - some compassion would be helpful

Another aspect of Oxford that I really struggled with was the time away from family, they are my main support system. Every weekend I would retreat home (South London) in need of emotional, mental, and physical comfort, all of which would be replenished at home. The weeks felt very empty and difficult, the only thing getting me through was the thought of Friday evening when I would board the OxfordTube at Gloucester Green bus station ready for the 2.5/3 hour journey home.

This is my last post to you about this - since the last time it turned into an unnecessary debate.


It's quite clear

I've just completed my first year at Oxford University and it went very badly.

For context, I'm studying Maths and Computer Science.

No-one talks about the jump from regular non-selective state school to literally one of the best universities in the world, and it was very difficult for me to come to terms with the drastically different teaching style, and expectations. I spent at least 2 terms getting to grips with it.

This next part will sound very imposter syndrome-y, but please hear me out (I'm sick of people just assuming that I'm overreacting and completely dismissing my viewpoint whenever I ask for help).

I've always been a hard worker, this is how I did so well at GCSEs and A-levels, but I don't believe I'm inherently intelligent (to the extent that most Oxford students doing STEM are). Although I've been able to work incredibly hard to do well in the past, I feel like the combined requirement for high level intelligence and hard work is not something I can healthily (nor sustainably) achieve. Generally, I substitute areas where I would require better natural understanding with just putting more hours in until I finally understand something (which most/all of my course-mates would have understood within the day of being introduced to it - as they were able to apply it in problem sheets and discuss it with ease - whereas it would take me 5/6 days to be able to apply it and literally never be able to discuss anything with ease), but there are only so many hours in a day and its very mentally straining.

Over the years, my self-worth has become intertwined with my academic success, as I have very few achievements besides doing well in school. I feel if I were to continue at Oxford, this would only magnify, and I fear it may slip me back into a depressive state like I was experiencing during exam season (more on this later). I'm unsure how many people know what it feels like to just feel constantly inadequate, but for those who don't, the best way I can describe it is like this...

Imagine an infinite amount of infinitely tall ladders placed one next to the other in a circular shape so you can see everyone else. You are on a ladder. Every time you are happy about yourself/your life, you climb up a rung on the ladder, every time you feel like you are not good enough, a rung disappears from the bottom of the ladder. Constant inadequacy, for me, feels like hanging only with your hands on the lowest rung, and to move up it takes so much more effort because I have to pull myself up using only my arms. Every time I move up, I see my peers, all happily moving up with ease and I realise how bad I am doing relative to them - then *poof* I'm back at the bottom again. And it's just a never ending cycle of this.

I also failed my prelims. After studying 10 hours a day for 2 weeks prior to the exams (as well as more casual studying all the way through Trinity term), then hitting burnout about 5 days before my first exam, and slipping into a depressive state. I managed to scrape a pass in the two maths exams, but I failed two of three computer science exams.

I generally found my maths modules easier to study for, the available resources were much better than the computer science ones, and I prefer the question style - I found computer science questions (both in exams and problem sheets) to often be slightly "wishy-washy" and depend too heavily on me filling in the gaps of questions in order to understand what they were asking for. I can definitely say that I prefer the maths side of my course, and I realise now that the main reason I went for the joint course is due to my enjoyment of programming, and its freedom, but when this aspect of computer science is minimised and the only bits I do get are heavily constrained and seem somewhat irrelevant, and my excitement for the subject just fizzles out.

I find this to be a real problem at Oxford (and probably other universities), I've spoken to many students who come in with a passion for their subject, but the switch from learning for enjoyment to now being forced onto you essentially strips away that passion. Unfortunately, I came having a "fake passion", and what I mean by this is because I find myself being fulfilled by hard work and seeing results. I simply use my subject as a vector for that. I realised early on into the year that I could be doing any subject and be getting the same amount of enjoyment from it, because I like learning in general, and I'm not as bothered by the specifics of the content for which I am learning. I'm simply an all-rounder, I did well in GCSEs because I found myself not confined to any one subject too heavily, and it was the same in A-levels.

Another aspect of Oxford that I really struggled with was the time away from family, they are my main support system. Every weekend I would retreat home (South London) in need of emotional, mental, and physical comfort, all of which would be replenished at home. The weeks felt very empty and difficult, the only thing getting me through was the thought of Friday evening when I would board the OxfordTube at Gloucester Green bus station ready for the 2.5/3 hour journey home.

This is why I want to dropout/switch universities, I understand many people would want me to stick with it and give it more time, but I know it'd be dead time and I really don't want to do another year of it. I find to be too mentally draining, and I'd rather cut my loses now than cause anymore unnecessary damage. I'm not going to sacrifice my happiness for better job prospects, I'd rather work a low-level job but be happy.

I'm currently thinking of taking a year out, and then reapplying to a London university to study Maths starting September 2023. During my year out I want to focus on doing to stuff that makes me happy, and most importantly to rebuild my confidence.

I feel quite lost right now, so any advice or personal experiences would be greatly appreciated!

TL;dr, Oxford University makes me depressed and incredibly insecure, I don't want to sacrifice my mental state for better future job prospects. Considering taking a year out then moving to a London university to be closer to my family. Thoughts?

I've just completed my first year at Oxford University and it went very badly.

For context, I'm studying Maths and Computer Science.

No-one talks about the jump from regular non-selective state school to literally one of the best universities in the world, and it was very difficult for me to come to terms with the drastically different teaching style, and expectations. I spent at least 2 terms getting to grips with it.

This next part will sound very imposter syndrome-y, but please hear me out (I'm sick of people just assuming that I'm overreacting and completely dismissing my viewpoint whenever I ask for help).

I've always been a hard worker, this is how I did so well at GCSEs and A-levels, but I don't believe I'm inherently intelligent (to the extent that most Oxford students doing STEM are). Although I've been able to work incredibly hard to do well in the past, I feel like the combined requirement for high level intelligence and hard work is not something I can healthily (nor sustainably) achieve. Generally, I substitute areas where I would require better natural understanding with just putting more hours in until I finally understand something (which most/all of my course-mates would have understood within the day of being introduced to it - as they were able to apply it in problem sheets and discuss it with ease - whereas it would take me 5/6 days to be able to apply it and literally never be able to discuss anything with ease), but there are only so many hours in a day and its very mentally straining.

Over the years, my self-worth has become intertwined with my academic success, as I have very few achievements besides doing well in school. I feel if I were to continue at Oxford, this would only magnify, and I fear it may slip me back into a depressive state like I was experiencing during exam season (more on this later). I'm unsure how many people know what it feels like to just feel constantly inadequate, but for those who don't, the best way I can describe it is like this...

Imagine an infinite amount of infinitely tall ladders placed one next to the other in a circular shape so you can see everyone else. You are on a ladder. Every time you are happy about yourself/your life, you climb up a rung on the ladder, every time you feel like you are not good enough, a rung disappears from the bottom of the ladder. Constant inadequacy, for me, feels like hanging only with your hands on the lowest rung, and to move up it takes so much more effort because I have to pull myself up using only my arms. Every time I move up, I see my peers, all happily moving up with ease and I realise how bad I am doing relative to them - then *poof* I'm back at the bottom again. And it's just a never ending cycle of this.

I also failed my prelims. After studying 10 hours a day for 2 weeks prior to the exams (as well as more casual studying all the way through Trinity term), then hitting burnout about 5 days before my first exam, and slipping into a depressive state. I managed to scrape a pass in the two maths exams, but I failed two of three computer science exams.

I generally found my maths modules easier to study for, the available resources were much better than the computer science ones, and I prefer the question style - I found computer science questions (both in exams and problem sheets) to often be slightly "wishy-washy" and depend too heavily on me filling in the gaps of questions in order to understand what they were asking for. I can definitely say that I prefer the maths side of my course, and I realise now that the main reason I went for the joint course is due to my enjoyment of programming, and its freedom, but when this aspect of computer science is minimised and the only bits I do get are heavily constrained and seem somewhat irrelevant, and my excitement for the subject just fizzles out.

I find this to be a real problem at Oxford (and probably other universities), I've spoken to many students who come in with a passion for their subject, but the switch from learning for enjoyment to now being forced onto you essentially strips away that passion. Unfortunately, I came having a "fake passion", and what I mean by this is because I find myself being fulfilled by hard work and seeing results. I simply use my subject as a vector for that. I realised early on into the year that I could be doing any subject and be getting the same amount of enjoyment from it, because I like learning in general, and I'm not as bothered by the specifics of the content for which I am learning. I'm simply an all-rounder, I did well in GCSEs because I found myself not confined to any one subject too heavily, and it was the same in A-levels.

Another aspect of Oxford that I really struggled with was the time away from family, they are my main support system. Every weekend I would retreat home (South London) in need of emotional, mental, and physical comfort, all of which would be replenished at home. The weeks felt very empty and difficult, the only thing getting me through was the thought of Friday evening when I would board the OxfordTube at Gloucester Green bus station ready for the 2.5/3 hour journey home.

This is why I want to dropout/switch universities, I understand many people would want me to stick with it and give it more time, but I know it'd be dead time and I really don't want to do another year of it. I find to be too mentally draining, and I'd rather cut my loses now than cause anymore unnecessary damage. I'm not going to sacrifice my happiness for better job prospects, I'd rather work a low-level job but be happy.

I'm currently thinking of taking a year out, and then reapplying to a London university to study Maths starting September 2023. During my year out I want to focus on doing to stuff that makes me happy, and most importantly to rebuild my confidence.

I feel quite lost right now, so any advice or personal experiences would be greatly appreciated!

TL;dr, Oxford University makes me depressed and incredibly insecure, I don't want to sacrifice my mental state for better future job prospects. Considering taking a year out then moving to a London university to be closer to my family. Thoughts?

What about Cambridge University Computer Science?

How is that a sensible suggestion?

Please compare the courses in the Computer Science degrees at Cambridge, Imperial, UCL, KCL, QMUL, Durham, RHUL, City, York, Manchester, Leeds, Warwick, Newcastle, Edinburgh, Glasgow and so on etc

Some degrees are more enjoyable.