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canuck
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#41
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#41
I have a 4x4 pick up truck

1991 Ford F-150, 4.9 litre inline 6.

Fun fun, ive taken her into a few pits
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G4ry
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#42
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#42
(Original post by lessthanthree)
we tested the disco 3 for landrover. This means we had the car before anyone else in england. It made me feel damn special...because there were loads of landrover lovers staring at it like "wtf? I WANT!"
Or possibly looking at the back window (a square) and thought "what a piece of poor design"
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PublicSchoolAnn
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#43
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#43
(Original post by lessthanthree)
I'm more a BMW person myself.

Audis give me motion sickness.
I better stop talking about car or else i will sound like a total man but there was a advert for the new bmw estate in Tatlers resturant guide and that was hot(stop it !) . Actually that car was prettier than many of the watches/bags advertised in Tatler.
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G4ry
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#44
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#44
(Original post by Sarah:-))
4X4 are only safer for the people inside it, they make it more dangerous for other road users
No they're not, it's basic physics. Higher centre of gravity - more prone to rolling. If the people in a 4x4 have an accident or go around a bend too fast instead of skidding they'll end up flipping. Hardly the choice i'd make.
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Jamie
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#45
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#45
(Original post by canuck)
I have a 4x4 pick up truck

1991 Ford F-150, 4.9 litre inline 6.

Fun fun, ive taken her into a few pits
yeh but you're canadian...
Half of these 4x4 drivers worst off road experience is when they mount the kerb trying to get into tescos car park

And sarah - 4x4s are no safer for those inside on genral than any other cars
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Jamie
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#46
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#46
(Original post by G4ry)
No they're not, it's basic physics. Higher centre of gravity - more prone to rolling. If the people in a 4x4 have an accident or go around a bend too fast instead of skidding they'll end up flipping. Hardly the choice i'd make.
bang on. thus kiddies in back break skulls on the side windows. weight of car crushes doors preventing escape, people die.
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python05
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#47
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#47
(Original post by Sarah:-))
I absolutely hate 4X4, they're so bad for the environment, they use up so much fuel!
No they dont! Most do 25 - 50mpg! How is that too much fuel....

and anyway no matter what we do our ancestors have already ****ed the planet for us! nothing we can do will stop whats already happening NOT EVEN GETTING RID OF SUVS

SHOCH HORROR! :rolleyes:
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Sarah:-)
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#48
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#48
(Original post by G4ry)
No they're not, it's basic physics. Higher centre of gravity - more prone to rolling. If the people in a 4x4 have an accident or go around a bend too fast instead of skidding they'll end up flipping. Hardly the choice i'd make.
Well if thats true then there goes the only argument for having a 4x4!

It just don't understand why anyone would want a one
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G4ry
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#49
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#49
(Original post by Sarah:-))
Well if thats true then there goes the only argument for having a 4x4!

It just don't understand why anyone would want a one
Status, it gives short people a chance to look down on others for once. A 4x4 may actually be useful for going off-road (although the nearest most get is to the car park at the supermarket). Also they can offer a flat floor at the back (more space) as the transmission tunnel can be placed lower down.
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G4ry
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#50
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#50
(Original post by lessthanthree)
More Corsas roll than Landrovers.
Stat?

Unless you want to argue with basic physics.
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frost105
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#51
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#51
(Original post by lessthanthree)
well, I looked at the basic crashes of the bottom of my road [crash hotspot]

and concluded that in 3 crashes, 1 involving a 4X4 and a ford, and 2 involving corsas with other saloons/hatchbacks, both corsas cartwheeled

4X4? rock steady. death = 0 in all three cases.
Plus corsas are made by vauxhall-thus crap
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G4ry
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#52
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#52
(Original post by lessthanthree)
well, I looked at the basic crashes of the bottom of my road [crash hotspot]

and concluded that in 3 crashes, 1 involving a 4X4 and a ford, and 2 involving corsas with other saloons/hatchbacks, both corsas cartwheeled

4X4? rock steady. death = 0 in all three cases.
So it's conclusive...using your extensive survey of 3 crashes 4x4s don't roll :rolleyes:

Which is why BMW invested so much money in trying to make their X5 handle like a road car.
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Sarah:-)
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#53
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#53
http://www.sundayherald.com/38681

"4x4s more than twice as deadly for pedestrians"
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Sarah:-)
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#54
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#54
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...166175,00.html

Article showing how 4x4s are rubbish in so many ways...
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Sarah:-)
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#55
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#55
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...430050,00.html

Yet another article showing how rubbish they are...
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Dickie
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#56
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#56
(Original post by G4ry)
Bu the thing is if a kid gets hits by a car they'll go on to the bonnet and stand more chance of survival. Get hit by a car with a higher centre of gravity (4x4) legs will most defninitely get broken and the kid will probably end up under the car.

So still more dangerous from that aspect.
actually... 4x4s can be better than normal cars to be whacked with, becuase:
-larger impact area -> lower pressure
-steeper angles on the front of the vehicle -> you arent thrown upwards by the bonnet/windscreen - you just go forwards with the car
-obviously, 4x4s are bigger. therefore, the engineers have acres more space to put the engine etc under the bonnet. therefore, there's usually a nice gap between the underside of the bonnet and any harder things, like the engine. With smaller cars, theres less space, so your head may just crash into the top of something when the bonnet deforms.

For drivers, they're safer too *technically*, ie. more likely to survive an accident. Which is good, because thanks to the bad handling and the size, they're more likely to be involved in an accident than smaller cars.
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-mb-
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#57
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#57
1) 4x4s are no worse environmentally than many sports cars and people carriers
(They are often diesels)
2) 4x4s offer better visibility and thus greater opportunity to avoid accidents in the first place
3) 4x4s are safer for the occupents in an accident (which is what counts if you're the owner)
4) 4x4s are ideal for towing boats/horses etc. due to the torque they offer
5) 4x4s are also good in floods and on narrow lanes, on "traffic calming measures" and on poorly made roads
(which are common due to the government and global warming <-which will not stop if we abandon 4x4s, sorry)

A 4x4 does not have to be used off-road to be a sensible purchase.

A people carrier can only really offer a couple of the above benefits, while suffereing many of the same disadvantage. What should I buy instead for all these on-road uses?

Exactly.

Therefore I would, and probably someday will, buy a 4x4. (And I will just drive sensibly so as not to roll it!)

I would love a Landcruiser Amazon (http://www.toyota.co.uk/cgi-bin/toyo...&menuid=112358), just annoy you superior greenies armed with incorrect information and one-sided arguments.

(Someone is welcome to link to a non-4x4 which deals with all my initial points)
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quadrocat
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#58
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#58
I think 4x4s are moronic if you live in the city and only use them to do the school run in. All the gangsters drive them where I live in Manchester.

But then I'm one of those hippy folk, so I would say that...
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Forgotpassword
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#59
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#59
(Original post by amazingtrade)
I wouldn;t buy a 4x4 at all. First of I don't believe they are safe, the uprightness of it means they are not always as good as you might expect in a crash.

They gassle do much fuel, the same engine in a normal car will deiliver much better MPG, 4*4s have have all their four wheels driven by the engine instead of just two, this must use more petrol.

They are more complicated and much more expensive to fix. I really don't see the point in them at all, I would much rather have a Golf TDI or a Fucus or somthing.

I wouldn't buy a Monedo unless its at least 3 years old, I might as well just donate my money to Microsoft rather than buying one new.
Now to dispell the myths:

They use less fuel than your average large saloon. The vast majority run on diesel, and most offroaders are actually things like Land Rover Defenders, which get around 30 MPG. Land Rover Defenders last around 250K miles, a small Eurobox Peugeot will be more or less knackered by 100K. This means they are replaced less often, and making a new car involves a hell of a lot of energy.

A lot of larger cars, like Audi, now have permanent 4 wheel drive, and they aren't offroaders.

Offroaders are cheaper to maintain. Most people I know who drive offroaders maintain them themselves, and parts are very cheap for makes like Land Rover.

4x4's are statistically 20% LESS likely to be involved in accidents.

We have two 4x4's. One is 12 years old (Range Rover 3.9V8) and is still going strong. it carts horse ***** around, as well as furniture, compost, etc. The other (L322 RR 4.4V8) also carts horse ***** around. They are not Chelsea Tractors, but they are used on the school run still.

If you want a non-bias, non xenophobic view, you can check out: www.4x4prejudice.org . This will give you the other view point.
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Aitch
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#60
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#60
(Original post by PublicSchoolAnn)
Stop stereotyping off roader drivers. The vast majority will still be country folk and the horsey set.

I drive a 4 litre Land Rover, and would like to point out that I don't spend my time knocking children over with it...

...partly because I spend most of my time putting petrol into it.

Aitch
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