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Dickie
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#101
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#101
I think people on both sides of this discussion are making a few rather silly points now, and as funny as they are, they're boring to read every other post. so...

the anti-4x4 posters say that small cars are safer etc. If that would true, lets take it to extremes - Smart car vs an articulated lorry: which one would *you* rather be in?

it's also funny how pro-4x4 posters seem to think that 4WD on it's own will get you out of anything, like snow. This isnt true! No matter how many wheels are being driven, if they all slide, you aint going anywhere! unless you have good tyres, but the same can be said for FWD/RWD cars, so the point is kinda gone.

I don't think 4x4s are the root of all evil, or that they should be banned or taxed higher. People do have a right to drive what they want, and for families 4x4s are really ideal simply because they've got loads of space - cars like the BMW X5 could probably be RWD and it'd sell as well, because the fact is that most 4x4 owners won't ever take their car off road, other than to park in a muddy field at their son's rugby practice.

And with vehicles like the Volvo XC90 and the range rover/range rover sport (i want one!), 4x4s are also really nice cars as well as being functional.
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Jamie
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#102
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#102
(Original post by Forgotpassword)
Raher than just posting moronic statements, how about you form an intelligent arguement? How is it 'out of shape'? Have you ever bothered to compare a pro/anti site? No, you haven't, as anyone that did would be able to accept sombody else's viewpoint, although not agree with it. I think you're a xenephobic **** for hating 4x4's, but at least I come on here and put accross intelligent arguements, as opposed to just trashing other's opinions and insulting people.

I think if you compare the anti 4x4 sites with pro 4x4 sites, you will see who puts their arguements forward in a more sensible mannor - with out resorting to stupid criticisms or sensationalism.

To the guy that posted a criticism of me comparing a Mini to a Freelander: What's your point?? I posted a comparison based on size, engine power and size, and load carrying capability. The only thing a Mini does considerably better than a Freelander is 0-60. It isn't the bottom of the line Land Rover, indeed it is Land Rover's most common model, in it's most popular varient.

No one has responded to my point of 4x4's last longer. I know of many 300K+ Landies, but I guarantee that at a similar age, almost all Mini's will be rotton on scrap heaps. The vast majority of all Land Rovers ever produced are still running, now that is actually good environmentally, as you are making less new cars less often.
When it gets to the weekend and i have time to find relevant papers and research I'll just sodding well nuke this thread with scientific information against 4x4s.
Until then you'd be wise to tone down your language, and note that nothing i have said is 'moronic', and that 'xenophobic' is a word no one can ever attach to me.
Xenophobe means 'a person unduly fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or foreign peoples' you daft bugger.
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Forgotpassword
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#103
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#103
(Original post by foolfarian)
When it gets to the weekend and i have time to find relevant papers and research I'll just sodding well nuke this thread with scientific information against 4x4s.
Until then you'd be wise to tone down your language, and note that nothing i have said is 'moronic', and that 'xenophobic' is a word no one can ever attach to me.
Xenophobe means 'a person unduly fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or foreign peoples' you daft bugger.
Yes, in retrospect, I do apologise for my bad language. Sorry.

I still stand by my beliefs, and await your 'nuking' however.

I also know what to be xenophobic is. I believe you dislike 4x4's, primarily because you are used to normal road cars, and thus the 4x4 is foreign you. You seem to take the 'I hate 4x4's, everyone should agree with me, even though I don't really understand the main issues and can accept no one else's viewpoint' point of view. Xenophobe doesn't solely apply to a dislike of people, but also objects. You may also be called xenophobic as you appear to dislike myself, and I represent a 'foreign' viewpoint.

I don't agree with your position, but I accept and respect it none the less, and ask you to do the same.
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-mb-
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#104
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#104
(Original post by foolfarian)
When it gets to the weekend and i have time to find relevant papers and research I'll just sodding well nuke this thread with scientific information against 4x4s.
Until then you'd be wise to tone down your language, and note that nothing i have said is 'moronic', and that 'xenophobic' is a word no one can ever attach to me.
Xenophobe means 'a person unduly fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or foreign peoples' you daft bugger.
This room is full of people who are of an age where words might be misunderstood. (Myself included; though I did note Xenephobic was the wrong word, I wouldn't have been so damn rude and partronising if I'd pointed it out)

The guy was only trying to use a decent vocabulary to make a coherent point. (The point was otherwise coherent) You seem to believe his point is somehow invalidated by this mistake.

btw. There is no scientific information to be found with which you will be able to bombard (or even "nuke") this thread. (Your weekends sound a real ball by the way :rolleyes: )

I also note you ignored my earlier reply in which I demolished your claim that those in a Megane could possibly come off better than those in a Landcruiser in a collision between the two. (Which is the basis for buying the Landcruiser, given that in a crash with a wall, the Megane is better)

To be honest you just come accross as bloody arrogant and narrow-minded. I have even typed a list earlier of all the things a 4x4 can do simultaneously which you've also ignored.
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material breach
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#105
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#105
(Original post by -mb-)
Yes, I hadn't thought of it as game theory. Yes 2 Landcruisers is worse then 2 Meganes, but of course, everyone settles for the Landcruiser, because the Landcruiser does better in the Landcruiser-Megane crash, although the 2 Megane crash is the "best" option.
You can clearly see its selfish in terms of collisons where the occupants do not need a 4 by 4
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Forgotpassword
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#106
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#106
Thanks for your support mb!

PS: My mate just sold a Land Cruiser. 180000 miles, never broke down once, still ran perfectly when he sold it. Show me a Mini that does that in 10 years or so, and i'll buy you a drink!
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Forgotpassword
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#107
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#107
(Original post by Speciez99)
You can clearly see its selfish in terms of collisons where the occupants do not need a 4 by 4
Who are you to judge who needs a 4x4, nobody can make that judgement but the owner themselves.

My 4x4 goes on the school run, but it must also be noted that it goes offroad and carries heavy loads.
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F1 fanatic
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#108
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#108
(Original post by PublicSchoolAnn)
What do you think of them?
I have been watching watch dog and some hippy folk are trying to get them banned.
I think off roaders are fab.
No. Off-roaders are the scorge of the road. Nobody likes them & they are completely unnecessary for the school run. Admittedly you could go where you please driving a hummer but you'd also be doing some pathetically small mpg. It would cost a fortune in fuel. Besides, when has anyone ever claimed a land-rover to be attractive! :hmpf:
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Mad Vlad
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#109
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#109
(Original post by F1 fanatic)
No. Off-roaders are the scorge of the road. Nobody likes them & they are completely unnecessary for the school run. Admittedly you could go where you please driving a hummer but you'd also be doing some pathetically small mpg. It would cost a fortune in fuel. Besides, when has anyone ever claimed a land-rover to be attractive! :hmpf:
The new land rovers are quite nice looking actually... and shouldnt the fuel efficiency of a Hummer be measured in GPM?
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F1 fanatic
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#110
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#110
(Original post by Mad Vlad)
The new land rovers are quite nice looking actually... and shouldnt the fuel efficiency of a Hummer be measured in GPM?
Indeed. Why? just why? Give me the choic between a Porsche/ Merc or whatever & a Hummer I know which Id go for! It would probably be cheaper to run the sports car. Beisdes you wouldnt have to take the kids to school. They could walk.

On a side point a Hummer would admittedly be useful if you were very protective of your children. It would be bomb & bullet proof at least.
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Mad Vlad
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#111
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#111
(Original post by F1 fanatic)
Indeed. Why? just why? Give me the choic between a Porsche/ Merc or whatever & a Hummer I know which Id go for! It would probably be cheaper to run the sports car. Beisdes you wouldnt have to take the kids to school. They could walk.

On a side point a Hummer would admittedly be useful if you were very protective of your children. It would be bomb & bullet proof at least.
Would it come with the obligatory TOW rocket launcher just in case someone cuts you up?
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F1 fanatic
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#112
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#112
(Original post by Mad Vlad)
Would it come with the obligatory TOW rocket launcher just in case someone cuts you up?
Of course. And hellfire anti-tank missiles if someones tailgating you.
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material breach
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#113
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#113
(Original post by Forgotpassword)
Who are you to judge who needs a 4x4, nobody can make that judgement but the owner themselves.

My 4x4 goes on the school run, but it must also be noted that it goes offroad and carries heavy loads.
You didnt read what I wrote before did you.
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canuck
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#114
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#114
As for 4X4 in europe, well maby in cars but not SUV's. Of course, you dont have pickups over there. Over here of course, they are a necessity. The majority of automobiles in our town are 4X4 because of gravel roads that surround our town.
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Mad Vlad
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#115
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#115
(Original post by canuck)
As for 4X4 in europe, well maby in cars but not SUV's. Of course, you dont have pickups over there. Over here of course, they are a necessity. The majority of automobiles in our town are 4X4 because of gravel roads that surround our town.
You see, I respect to some degree, people who own a 4x4 because they NEED one... rather than over here (excluding farmers) who usually buy expensive 4x4s probably to calm some automotive inferiority complex. :rolleyes:
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Jamie
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#116
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#116
(Original post by Forgotpassword)
Yes, in retrospect, I do apologise for my bad language. Sorry.

I still stand by my beliefs, and await your 'nuking' however.

I also know what to be xenophobic is. I believe you dislike 4x4's, primarily because you are used to normal road cars, and thus the 4x4 is foreign you. You seem to take the 'I hate 4x4's, everyone should agree with me, even though I don't really understand the main issues and can accept no one else's viewpoint' point of view. Xenophobe doesn't solely apply to a dislike of people, but also objects. You may also be called xenophobic as you appear to dislike myself, and I represent a 'foreign' viewpoint.

I don't agree with your position, but I accept and respect it none the less, and ask you to do the same.

This room is full of people who are of an age where words might be misunderstood. (Myself included; though I did note Xenephobic was the wrong word, I wouldn't have been so damn rude and partronising if I'd pointed it out)

The guy was only trying to use a decent vocabulary to make a coherent point. (The point was otherwise coherent) You seem to believe his point is somehow invalidated by this mistake.

btw. There is no scientific information to be found with which you will be able to bombard (or even "nuke") this thread. (Your weekends sound a real ball by the way )

I also note you ignored my earlier reply in which I demolished your claim that those in a Megane could possibly come off better than those in a Landcruiser in a collision between the two. (Which is the basis for buying the Landcruiser, given that in a crash with a wall, the Megane is better)

To be honest you just come accross as bloody arrogant and narrow-minded. I have even typed a list earlier of all the things a 4x4 can do simultaneously which you've also ignored.
1) I come from deepest darkest lincolnshire where 4x4s are very common - and actually necessary. I'm now in london, where they are far from necessary, nor practical.
2) I'm too busy during the week to write up a proper answer with sources. Hence why I'll have a spare half hour at the weekend.
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roff
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#117
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#117
We have 4x4s especially when we lived abroad, they are very useful, especially for driving around London in
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canuck
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#118
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#118
(Original post by Mad Vlad)
You see, I respect to some degree, people who own a 4x4 because they NEED one... rather than over here (excluding farmers) who usually buy expensive 4x4s probably to calm some automotive inferiority complex. :rolleyes:

I think people purchase 4X4 SUV's because the advertisements demonstrate how "usefull they are in those tough conditions." In Europe, (ecluding scotland, the alps, ect) the terrain is mostly level and most roads are paved. Here, especailly in my town, there is one paved road into my town, and that same road is the way out. All other ways are gravel roads. I dont imagin many europeans have large pleasure boats (20-30 feet) or camper trailers. Over here, in my town, almost every garage has a large boat or a camper trailer. The life style over here is far different.

I do though support the slow shift to people using fuel effecient cars though. Maby the SUV and the pickup truck will become the pleasure automobile of the future.
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