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Real Life Ethical Scenario : 13 Year old Refuses Heart Transplant. Watch

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    (Original post by * Dain Bramaged *)
    Is the fact that she is refusing the heart which could save her life considered a form of passive euthanasia?
    In my opinion it is. In interview do you think describing this as euthanasia would be acceptable?
    euthansia means 'good and gentle death'. Nothing she is doing will be good nor gentle.

    Its an over used word.
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    (Original post by jonnyofengland)
    Medicine can only ever be an option, not a force. Any patient has the right to refuse treatment, providing they are sufficiently informed. At 13, it could be argued that the patient isn't mature enough to make that decision, but so long as she is made fully aware of all her options and suitably advised by relatives, friends and healthcare workers, then I think she had the right to die. (Thinking about that, there's actually not that much difference between refusing treatment and euthanasia)
    But with Euthanasia you get to choose what time you die and how.

    (Original post by jonnyofengland)
    I think it's brilliant how you posed that as a question.

    So do i, as there have been quite a few arguments so its a semi discussion.
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    i talked to someone i know on the medical interview board for hyms and they agreed that it is a form of passive euthanasia. allowing her to not have the treatment is the same as a patient not being given a drug which would help prolong life etccc...
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    (Original post by * Dain Bramaged *)
    allowing her to not have the treatment is the same as a patient not being given a drug which would help prolong life etccc...
    So not treating her is the same as, err, not treating her...
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    ye....
    i was actually aggreeing with what you said exaclty...
    drugs, surgery etc are all treatment (somebody earlier in the thread seemed to think otherwise)
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    (Original post by * Dain Bramaged *)
    ye....
    i was actually aggreeing with what you said exaclty...
    drugs, surgery etc are all treatment (somebody earlier in the thread seemed to think otherwise)
    Whether you call it euthanasia is sophistry to be honest, it boils down to the same thing.
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    Just one question. How long does the girl have left to live? Does she have months or weeks or years? Just asking because the articles seem to discuss the actual issues rather than the consequences i.e. time-frame that she has left to live.

    p.s. sorry if this is a stupid question.
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    (Original post by motiv3)
    Just one question. How long does the girl have left to live? Does she have months or weeks or years?
    How long is a piece of string?

    Nobody ever provides answers to questions like that, except perhaps the daily mail, it's never really known. My guess is 6-12 months, could be well out, only time will tell.
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    (Original post by Renal)
    How long is a piece of string?
    between 1.6*10^-35 m and Infinity.
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    (Original post by * Dain Bramaged *)
    i talked to someone i know on the medical interview board for hyms and they agreed that it is a form of passive euthanasia. allowing her to not have the treatment is the same as a patient not being given a drug which would help prolong life etccc...
    Well they are wrong
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    one second....is passive euthanasia legal in the uk//?? Cos it seems like this is passive euthanasia and yet it is being allowed....
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    (Original post by * Dain Bramaged *)
    one second....is passive euthanasia legal in the uk//?? Cos it seems like this is passive euthanasia and yet it is being allowed....
    yes but the patient has given consent and is fully informed i.e. considering autonomy the patient has refused treatment.
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    i thought it was illegal?
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    Passive euthanasia is an ambiguous term.

    Euthanasia is actively ending someone's life in, what are judged to be, their best medical interests, there is nothing passive about it, except perhaps watching it happen.

    Allowing nature to take it's course is, in my view, a different matter.
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    I always thought that passive euthanasia would be something like withdrawing a feeding tube?

    A patient turning down a treatment which could potentially prolong/save their lives seems like a very different thing to me.
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    (Original post by randdom)
    I always thought that passive euthanasia would be something like withdrawing a feeding tube?

    A patient turning down a treatment which could potentially prolong/save their lives seems like a very different thing to me.
    I agree, it's hard to know where to draw the line. There are plenty of patients with terminal illnesses who refuse treatment that might extend their lives by a few months, but I don't think most of them would term it euthanasia at the stage they decide against treatment. It's just most of them don't get in the papers as they're over 18 and there are no legal issues.
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    the patient is a minor in the eyes of the law however as she has capacity it can be assumed that she is well aware of her decision to refuse treatment. however on the flip side should her ability to fully comprehend the consequences of refusing treatment at this time of great stress at such a young age (in the great scheme of things) cause doctors and her family to override her wishes and continue?
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    (Original post by fatal)
    the patient is a minor in the eyes of the law however as she has capacity it can be assumed that she is well aware of her decision to refuse treatment. however on the flip side should her ability to fully comprehend the consequences of refusing treatment at this time of great stress at such a young age (in the great scheme of things) cause doctors and her family to override her wishes and continue?
    Firstly, her family support her decision, so they're not going to be overriding anything. Even if they didn't support her decision, in practice it would be very difficult for them to force her into the transplant assessments.

    As for the doctors, they could get a court order overriding both, but as I've said before, psychological assessments are a part of the transplant process and she'd almost certainly not pass them if she didn't want the op, so it would be a fairly futile exercise.
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    (Original post by Helenia)
    Firstly, her family support her decision, so they're not going to be overriding anything. Even if they didn't support her decision, in practice it would be very difficult for them to force her into the transplant assessments.

    As for the doctors, they could get a court order overriding both, but as I've said before, psychological assessments are a part of the transplant process and she'd almost certainly not pass them if she didn't want the op, so it would be a fairly futile exercise.
    But what does the court order allow them to do? Keep her parents under armed guard while they hold her down and operate? Surely if she persistantly resists, there isn't much they can do.
 
 
 
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