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    Now a pipe I could certainly do with. I already have an entire packet of fake moustaches, all of which are sadly too sexy for a 'reader' - an essentially boring person that lives in an armchair, rotting.

    I want to be a niallistic, epic poet now
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    (Original post by mja)
    The career structure is very flexible. Certainly at Oxford and Cambridge it isn't always necessary to have completed a PhD (at least in non-science disciplines) before securing an academic appointment.
    Whatever gave you that impression?:confused:
    Maybe a PhD isn't always an official requirement, but I think you'll find that very few people are able to get appointments without one these days.
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    (Original post by hobnob)
    Whatever gave you that impression?:confused:
    Maybe a PhD isn't always an official requirement, but I think you'll find that very few people are able to get appointments without one these days.
    I'm wondering whether the emphasis is on completion - as in 'at Oxford and Cambridge it is very common for people to be offered jobs a few months before their submission dates'. If so, I have no idea why Oxbridge were mentioned specifically - most universities appoint their September-start teaching and research fellows several months before, in the expectation that they will be about to submit but not yet have received their PhD, but will complete within the first year of the appointment.
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    (Original post by hobnob)
    Whatever gave you that impression?:confused:
    Maybe a PhD isn't always an official requirement, but I think you'll find that very few people are able to get appointments without one these days.
    I have an academic post in Oxford (and have had it for over a year now) and have just started the second year of my DPhil.

    I think I meet all the criteria for being a "lecturer" - I am employed full-time by the University, am a member of Congregation (the 'Dons' Parliament') and have full teaching load of both tutorials and lectures. My DPhil will be complete by September 2010 at the earliest.

    I am certainly not the only one in this positon. I have one colleague who is in almost exactly the same position as me, and a couple more who are slightly further through their DPhils.

    I think mja is right to note that Oxford and Cambridge have slightly different approaches to other Universities - they seem much happier to appoint on the strength of research potential, without always requiring a completed (or even near-completion) PhD/DPhil.
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    (Original post by oxbridge_tutor)
    I have an academic post in Oxford (and have had it for over a year now) and have just started the second year of my DPhil.

    I think I meet all the criteria for being a "lecturer" - I am employed full-time by the University, am a member of Congregation (the 'Dons' Parliament') and have full teaching load of both tutorials and lectures. My DPhil will be complete by September 2010 at the earliest.

    I am certainly not the only one in this positon. I have one colleague who is in almost exactly the same position as me, and a couple more who are slightly further through their DPhils.

    I think mja is right to note that Oxford and Cambridge have slightly different approaches to other Universities - they seem much happier to appoint on the strength of research potential, without always requiring a completed (or even near-completion) PhD/DPhil.
    Ilex is right, actually - it was a matter of crossed wires. I missed that the emphasis was on completion and thought mja was suggesting they appointed lots of people who had no PhD and no intention of getting one. Which I'm pretty sure isn't true.
    (Sorry about the misunderstanding, but I have a bad cold at the moment, and yesterday was the worst day so far in terms of brain-blockage).:o:
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    (Original post by hobnob)
    I missed that the emphasis was on completion and thought mja was suggesting they appointed lots of people who had no PhD and no intention of getting one. Which I'm pretty sure isn't true.
    Yes, that must be right. I think anyone recruited without a PhD is now strongly encouraged to start one (unless they already have a strong research record).
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    (Original post by EierVonSatan)
    Where on earth do you find the time to do a DPhil and lecture/tutor at the same time :p: I've just started the second year of my PhD and find the teaching work I have to do (about 6 hours a week) quite intensive
    Well, some are born great...:p:
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    (Original post by EierVonSatan)
    Where on earth do you find the time to do a DPhil and lecture/tutor at the same time :p: I've just started the second year of my PhD and find the teaching work I have to do (about 6 hours a week) quite intensive
    It is quite busy! I find that teaching gets less and less onerous the more I do it though. I give 16 different tutorials, but I have done some of them 10+ times now, so I don't need to prepare much for them - it's really just marking dozens of essays each week which takes the time.

    It's actually all the other stuff which really eats time e.g. my entire afternoon tomorrow will be taken up by a meeting about admissions, in advance of which I will have carefully read and considered dozens of UCAS forms, admissions test results, written work, references etc.

    It's fun though - I think I'd find doing a DPhil a bit isolating (being a non-scientist my DPhil is just me working in my office or in the library) without all the other stuff.
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    (Original post by IlexAquifolium)
    Well, that's not quite true. HODs are very rarely anything other than professors, but that's just because prof is the most senior academic rank (postdoc > fellow > junior lecturer > lecturer > senior lecturer > reader > professor). You get promoted up the ranks as a result of the research you produce.
    :ditto:

    My tutor is a professor, and he's almost purely there for the research. He gets lumbered with tutoring us puny first years, but AFAIK doesn't lecture or anything on a regular basis. He is really cool though, so that might influence his position.
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    (Original post by oxbridge_tutor)
    Yes, that must be right. I think anyone recruited without a PhD is now strongly encouraged to start one (unless they already have a strong research record).
    Sorry to be nosey, what degree were you studying when you were offered your current post?
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    Okay, quick question:

    To move a notch up the ladder, say from lecturer to senior lecturer, would you need to leave your current job and apply for the senior lectureship, or could it be bestowed on you by your current employer ... out of the blue, as it were? And, if not, how do you know when you're ready to move on?
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    (Original post by Wise One)
    Okay, quick question:

    To move a notch up the ladder, say from lecturer to senior lecturer, would you need to leave your current job and apply for the senior lectureship, or could it be bestowed on you by your current employer ... out of the blue, as it were? And, if not, how do you know when you're ready to move on?
    It seems to vary between institutions, but I can tell you how it works in Oxford. There is no 'senior lecturer' grade, so promotion is from lecturer to reader, and then to professor. Being Oxford, this is unnecessarily complicated...

    There are two types of reader and professor. There are 'substantive' readerships and professorships. This means that you get the title of reader/professor, you move up to the readers'/professors' salary scale, and you get the other perks e.g. substantive professors generally have no undergraduate tutoring obligations, nor do they have related college obligations eg undergraduate admissions (although many choose to help out anyway). To get one of these you generally have to apply, either from outside, or from an existing Oxford post, when a vacancy is advertised - so both internal and external candidates are in the same position.

    There are also awards of the title of reader or professor under the 'recognition of distinction' scheme. You can put yourself forward to be given the title of reader or professor in recognition of meeting the standards required of such a post holder. However, you don't get the extra money or the other perks of a substantive post. This is a purely internal scheme - it doesn't relate to specific jobs for which outsiders could apply.

    (Original post by Wise One)
    how do you know when you're ready to move on?
    As with everything in academic, it is really based on peer review. If your peers think that you should be applying for more senior posts, then it's probably worth thinking about, since it be your academic peers (broadly speaking) who make the decision about your suitability for appointment to a more senior position.

    Note also that you don't have to move up. In Oxford, lecturer has traditionally been the career grade - most academics are lecturers for most of their careers, with readerships/professorships coming late on, and only to a few. This is changing slightly, but it remains the case that many very senior academics in Oxford are lecturers, not readers or professors.
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    Oxford and Cambridge are very odd though, people can spend their entire academic careers without making professor despite being excellent researchers (and recognised as such), for example at Oxford Bob Thomas is an FRS but not a professor (crazy!). Also it seems that one can get a professorship by knowing the right people rather than being a good researcher - moreso than other places (although it happens everywhere).

    A piece of advice I was given was that you were more likely to get a professorship earlier at Oxford or Cambridge if you spent significant time away from the place. Not sure how true that is, but it seems that they are more likely to externally appoint an high-flying younger researcher to professor than promote quickly through their own ranks.
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    (Original post by ChemistBoy)
    A piece of advice I was given was that you were more likely to get a professorship earlier at Oxford or Cambridge if you spent significant time away from the place. Not sure how true that is, but it seems that they are more likely to externally appoint an high-flying younger researcher to professor than promote quickly through their own ranks.
    That may again be subject-dependent, though. I don't think any of the professors in my department could be called "young" by any stretch of the imagination.
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    (Original post by hobnob)
    That may again be subject-dependent, though. I don't think any of the professors in my department could be called "young" by any stretch of the imagination.
    I suppose it's more in the sciences that that happens (partly because I think moving about is more common in the sciences). By young I'm talking pre-40 here.
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    (Original post by ChemistBoy)
    I suppose it's more in the sciences that that happens (partly because I think moving about is more common in the sciences). By young I'm talking pre-40 here.
    There are quite a lot of pre-40 profs where I am. They are geniuses, though.
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    (Original post by ChemistBoy)
    I suppose it's more in the sciences that that happens (partly because I think moving about is more common in the sciences). By young I'm talking pre-40 here.
    Well, obviously.
    Even then, the youngest professor in my department (to my knowledge) is barely pre-50.
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    I think "Assistant Lecturer" is more commonly used than "Junior Lecturer".
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    Hi all,

    I'm really passionate about academia and have my heart set on becoming a Professor. But I got a 2,1 in my undergrad degree and it looks like I'll get the same in my postgrad. Does anyone know if it's possible for people without firsts to become professors? And if so could you give me some examples of universities that have employed people who have only gotten 2,1s in the UK in the past decade?

    Thanks,
    Rob
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    Go to Brazil, you can be a professor with an MA.
 
 
 
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