Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Raddoun)
    How about this rape law:

    All charges against the rapist will be dropped if the rapist agrees to marry the rapee.


    That, is messed uppp.
    It's also not true (well definitely not in Britain). So I wouldn't worry too much. Men can also rape their wives.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    O.P i totally agree with you. It's hard to charge someone with rape when both them and the victim were drunk because the victim might have given consent to it but then forgot that she did.

    I find it saddening to see in public girls who drink so much that they can't even walk because it is so easy for anyone to take advantage on them.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bjpchilds)
    I hate the way that some guys always joke around about rape. It's incredibly despicable and harmful and no woman should ever have to go through it. We as a society really need to become educated on rape and change our ideas about it.
    I completely agree with you. I think the idea of sex and consent need to be at least touched on in sex education. In my experience, teenagers don't seem to know what it means.

    Also, I find that most people who've never really thought about the subject have this picture of a rapist being some crazy guy who forces himself on strangers because they are drunk or because they are wearing revealing clothes. It's hard to accept that it happens all the time in relationships, and between friends and acquaintances. I think that's why a lot of people seem to have the problem with someone being charged with rape for having sex with someone drunk, because they don't associate rapists with normal people - they just automatically think 'wait, that's not as bad as rape' because their idea of what rape actually is is so different from the truth.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bjpchilds)
    I hate the way that some guys always joke around about rape. It's incredibly despicable and harmful and no woman should ever have to go through it. We as a society really need to become educated on rape and change our ideas about it.
    Agreed. I'm not particularly offended by the odd joke but some of the responses on here that are clearly trying to be humourous are just a bit sickening.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by awwsugar)
    Is it true that if a women's drunk and gets raped (so did not consent to sex) she gets lower compensation? One of my lecturers told us that the other day but I can't remember if that's how it is, or how it was.
    no because i remember there was a case this year/last year abotu a women who was going o get lower compensaton because she was drunk but she didnt in the end because her lawyer said something along the lines of it doesnt matter if she was drunk,she was still raped.

    But i think that girls/guys who get soo drunk that they can't even move should get lower compensation because they know that by putting themselves in that position they are making themselves vulnerable to being raped.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by little.miss.vicki)
    It's also not true (well definitely not in Britain). So I wouldn't worry too much. Men can also rape their wives.

    Oh sorry i was referring to Lebanon and a many other arab countries
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tom//)
    talking specifically about how a drunk man can get charged with rape if he has sex with a drunk woman when she agrees to it...

    to me that just doesnt make sense, how can a man be held accountable for his actions, but because the woman is drunk she cannot agree to sex?
    You are wrong. The law very clearly says that its not rape if she agrees to it, no matter how drunk she is.

    The point is she actually has to AGREE to it. If she is just unconscious, then she hasn't agreed and its rape.

    This is right IMO: you can't use the fact that you are drunk as an excuse. Its your choice to get stupidly drunk, and you should deal with the consequences.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    If a woman walks up to a guy, hits him round the head with a frying pan and knocks him out, ties him up well enough to stop him from moving, wakes him up and then has sex with him against his will, does that not count as rape? Can she not be punished for that? Because you know... if that happened to me I'd be pretty pissed off
    She would not be guilty of rape (she doesn't have a penis so she isn't physically capable of it) but she would be guilty of "Causing a person to engage in sexual activity without consent".

    I've got a hypothetical situation (but potentially quite a realistic one). Say a man is having consensual vaginal sex with a woman. During sex he decides to pull out and engage in anal sex instead without her consent. Did he rape her?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    Why can't they?

    The first paragraph is referring to drunkenness which is a bit of a grey-area in my mind. If two people have sex while drunk, I don't see why the girl can claim to have been raped, when she has done exactly the same thing that the guy has done. But then again, it depends how drunk each one was, and their ability to express their reluctance to have sex, which is quite subjective.

    The second paragraph is referring only to proven sober undisputed rape. When someone knows for certain another person doesn't want to have sex with them, and has sex with them anyway. If they've said quite that they don't want to, or are trying to physically resist, or have expressed their reluctance in some other way. If someone quite obviously doesn't want to have sex, I think that forcing them to have sex against their will should be punishable by death, just because there really is no excuse for it
    So you want the death penalty for a crime you acknowledge to have "grey area" and "subjectiv[ity]"?

    It's difficult enough to get undeniable proof about rape at the best of times, how the hell can you possibly think the death penalty is a good idea? What goes through your head? "Oh, he is probably guilty, let's kill him"? **** me.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bjpchilds)
    I hate the way that some guys always joke around about rape. It's incredibly despicable and harmful and no woman should ever have to go through it. We as a society really need to become educated on rape and change our ideas about it.
    4 pages before someone like you came out of the woodwork, must be a TSR record.

    the only men on here so far who have joked about rape are trolls or morons.

    And as usual you focus only on those poor female victims. Men can and do get raped as well.

    Oha dn achange our ideas? To what that its ok to do it, seeing as most people do not view rape as a good thing
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by fraternité)
    So you want the death penalty for a crime you acknowledge to have "grey area" and "subjectiv[ity]"?
    Yes, but only in the incidences that take place outside of the grey area, where no subjectivity is necessary.

    It's difficult enough to get undeniable proof about rape at the best of times, how the hell can you possibly think the death penalty is a good idea? What goes through your head? "Oh, he is probably guilty, let's kill him"? **** me.
    Not in the case where someone is probably guilty, but in the case where someone is definitely guilty. And such cases do exist, for example, if a rape is clearly caught on CCTV. Or if the defendant actually admits to it. Or if the rape results in a pregnancy, and the child is proven to be the rapist's baby. Or if there are independent witnesses.

    Maybe in many cases, rape can't be proven beyond all reasonable doubt. But in the cases where it can, what's wrong with the death penalty then?

    In practice, implementing the death penalty for proven rape probably wouldn't lead to many deaths, because, true, rape can very rarely be "proven". But the benefit of the death penalty would be to punish the few people who are proven to be rapists, and it would act as a deterrent to would-be rapists.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by silverbolt)
    4 pages before someone like you came out of the woodwork, must be a TSR record.

    the only men on here so far who have joked about rape are trolls or morons.
    Maybe so, but it's still completely unfunny; being a moron or trolling is no excuse for rape jokes in my opinion.
    And as usual you focus only on those poor female victims. Men can and do get raped as well.
    I'm sorry, but the discussion thus far was focused on female rape only. As we were discussing female rape, I didn't bring men into it. I feel very sorry for the men who are raped too. It might not occur as often, but it's still a problem and still horrific and scarring. My apologies.
    However, it's not 'those poor female victims'; I understand what you were saying, but phrasing it like that just sounds so horrible when you think that it can screw women (and men) up for life as they've been 'violated' in that way.

    Oha dn achange our ideas? To what that its ok to do it, seeing as most people do not view rape as a good thing
    Agreed, but I mean changing ideas such as 'ooh, that's girl really hammered, shall I buy her another drink to get her there?' and also the fact that rape jokes are so abundant.
    http://www.startribune.com/local/34129724.html = interesting

    I suggest talking about it in PSHE lessons as well, instead of the crap we currently discuss...
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    Or if the rape results in a pregnancy, and the child is proven to be the rapist's baby.
    What does that prove? That just proves they had sex, it doesn't prove she was raped.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by silverbolt)
    Oha dn achange our ideas? To what that its ok to do it, seeing as most people do not view rape as a good thing
    Actually, there are a lot of views that society commonly holds about rape which are unacceptable.

    *that if the girl doesn't say 'no,' it wasn't rape and she shouldn't say it was
    *that it's okay to have sex with someone who is drunk enough that they cannot consent
    *that women who dress revealingly are to blame if they are raped
    *that women who drink are to blame if they are raped
    *that people are often raped by strangers
    *that if she 'led him on' she was asking for it
    *that she was asking for it if she has had a lot of sexual partners
    *that rape is a rare crime
    * etc.

    Six out of seven people either said they didn't know that only 5.6% of rapes reported to the police currently result in conviction or believed the conviction rate to be far higher. The average estimate was of a 26% conviction rate, nearly fives times higher than the actual rate.
    http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=16618
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    Yes, but only in the incidences that take place outside of the grey area, where no subjectivity is necessary.



    Not in the case where someone is probably guilty, but in the case where someone is definitely guilty. And such cases do exist, for example, if a rape is clearly caught on CCTV. Or if the defendant actually admits to it. Or if the rape results in a pregnancy, and the child is proven to be the rapist's baby. Or if there are independent witnesses.

    Maybe in many cases, rape can't be proven beyond all reasonable doubt. But in the cases where it can, what's wrong with the death penalty then?

    In practice, implementing the death penalty for proven rape probably wouldn't lead to many deaths, because, true, rape can very rarely be "proven". But the benefit of the death penalty would be to punish the few people who are proven to be rapists, and it would act as a deterrent to would-be rapists.
    So rapists have an extra incentive to make sure they prey on drunk girls and/or cover their tracks more carefully?

    Why the hell should there be one rule for the sneaky and one rule for the less so? Why should those who are guilty beyond reasonable doubt receive a different punishment to those who are likely but not indisputably guilty?

    Can you really not see how many problems there are with this? Seriously? Prosecuting people in different ways for the same crime? What happened to the rule of law?

    I despair, I really do.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by nolongerhearthemusic)
    Actually, there are a lot of views that society commonly holds about rape which are unacceptable.

    *that if the girl doesn't say 'no,' it wasn't rape and she shouldn't say it was
    *that it's okay to have sex with someone who is drunk enough that they cannot consent
    *that women who dress revealingly are to blame if they are raped
    *that women who drink are to blame if they are raped
    *that people are often raped by strangers
    *that if she 'led him on' she was asking for it
    *that she was asking for it if she has had a lot of sexual partners
    *that rape is a rare crime
    * etc.

    Six out of seven people either said they didn't know that only 5.6% of rapes reported to the police currently result in conviction or believed the conviction rate to be far higher. The average estimate was of a 26% conviction rate, nearly fives times higher than the actual rate.
    http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=16618
    Thanks for that! I concur.
    I really can't believe some of the attitudes we hold about rape.
    I don't think some people are empathetic enough...or they just don't bother to think about it and empathise...
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bjpchilds)
    I hate the way that some guys always joke around about rape. It's incredibly despicable and harmful and no woman should ever have to go through it. We as a society really need to become educated on rape and change our ideas about it.
    what are you talking about?
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Psyk)
    What does that prove? That just proves they had sex, it doesn't prove she was raped.
    I know, I'm not saying that it would be enough evidence on its own, but it could be used as supporting evidence. For example, if a woman accuses a man of rape, and he claims that he had never even had sex with her, then later on, it comes to light that she is pregnant with his baby. Along with this, the next door neighbours have heard the incident, while the people living across the street have seen the incident, and it is quite clear from both accounts that she didn't actually want to have sex.

    (Original post by fraternité)
    So rapists have an extra incentive to make sure they prey on drunk girls and/or cover their tracks more carefully?
    The death penalty isn't going increase the number of rapists, it'll decrease it. Maybe a particular rapist, instead of preying on a sober girl, will prey on a drunk one. It might alter the focus of the incidence. (Maybe this will act as a deterrent to people who get drunk too often?) But it's not going to turn a would-be non-rapist into a rapist. But it will convert would-be rapists into non-rapists, even if for the sole reason that they aren't willing to risk their life for it.

    Why the hell should there be one rule for the sneaky and one rule for the less so? Why should those who are guilty beyond reasonable doubt receive a different punishment to those who are likely but not indisputably guilty?
    Because the main reason you gave against the death penalty was this one:

    "Oh, he's probably guilty, let's kill him" - in this case, you're killing someone who may be innocent.

    If there is a possibility that the defendant is actually innocent, then it's unreasonable to implement the death penalty in this specific case.

    You can't just generalise the punishment for all incidences of a particular crime. The circumstances of each individual case do need to be taken into account. It's not that there should be one rule for the sneaky and one rule for the less so, it's that punishment should always suit the circumstances in which the crime took place.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tom//)
    what are you talking about?
    Which part?
    In terms of rape jokes, I'm constantly seeing jokes or mocking allusions to rapes in adverts and on tv programmes etc, and people laugh about it in a really lighthearted way that isn't fair at all.

    As for how we need to change our views on rapes, see post #78.

    Sorry if I'm not making much sense, I feel really exhausted...
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    If the man's sober and she's completely off her face, I can understand them calling it rape. But if he's drunk too, it's just silly and gender-biased...
    Idk anything about this law, just throwing that out there; can't be bothered to read 5 pages to find out the details. XD
 
 
 
Poll
Do you agree with the PM's proposal to cut tuition fees for some courses?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.